I don’t think so Stutts - that goes down as one of your blind spots, as much as Idah goes down as one of mine ��Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
That’s it in a nutshell. I suppose a positive take is that Connolly idah and Parrot to a lesser extent are cutting their teeth at the same time, and doing so when there is a paucity of options, so aren’t being singled out or isolated as being ****e.
Robinson has looked more like a creator than a goalscorer, but likewise isn’t getting the ball in good enough positions to justify continued inclusion in the stsrting 11. If anything he’s included because we haven’t found a proper reliable solution to that attacking right position - whether it’s wide as part of a 3, or just behind the 9.
I really dislike him as a creative player, but one thing you have to hand to James McClean is that he hits the back of the net with regularity in relation to the chances created for him. If we’re not playing a system where we are whipping balls into the box, and are engaging with an aggressive high press, I wouldn’t be against trying him centrally in the absence of other options . Appreciate that’s a bit off-the-wall or irrational though.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Well, Parrott was being singled out as ****e earlier in this very thread
But yeah, I think there's an element of trying to see these guys - and I'd add the four keepers incl Kelleher in there - as being ahead of where they actually are in their development, and it can lead to frustration when they're then off the pace.
You cannae polish a turd, as they say. But all these guys have potential - some will fall away, but we should start seeing 3 or 4 very solid options there shortly, and then results will start to improve.
It's the factor that's swinging me (just about) in favour of keeping Kenny for now.
In the 3 games we created 21 chances, that includes shots on and off target. In Micks last game vs Denmark we created 18 chances. The recency bias is strong.
I don't see Idah, Parrott, Molumby, Travers, Connolly, Manning, Knight, Browne, Byrne, Obafemi or Coventry having EPL careers. At best, like Hourihane - they're nearly but not quite. Yet these formed the Golden Generation on which, apparently, a new era would be built. It's now possible that within three years we'll be an EPL-free zone. Also worrying, given our current historic low, is that no half-decent granny-ruler would waste a second thought on becoming Irish. Rice, Grealish and even Bamford must be very relieved they dodged the green bullet.
I'd like to see your source for these values - I make it 28 and 15:
11 V Qatar: https://www.skysports.com/football/q...d/stats/441509
11 V Luxembourg: https://www.skysports.com/football/r...g/stats/441552
6 V Serbia: https://www.skysports.com/football/s...d/stats/441530
15 V Denmark: https://www.skysports.com/football/r...k/stats/403437
I dont agree with knight. He will have an excellent premier league career.
1st half: Hourihane, Browne, McGoldrick*, Duffy missed header, (3/4)
2nd half: Hourihane cross*, Clark missed header*, McGoldrick swivel on penonspot, Doherty goal (2/4)
8 arguable potential chances, 4/5 actual chances.
https://youtu.be/yTGXnXkR3ZM
We all know you don’t like Kenny, and that you’d prefer someone else. No problem.
Nobody argues that the perfect against Denmark was good. No problem.
But don’t be pulling nonsense stats out of your jacksy. Be fair to yourself and to us.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I guess we’re ****ed so.
We’ll just pack it in? Or
Maybe the EPL doesn’t have to be the stick that we measure our squad on.
And unfortunately your use of Golden Generation is probably symptomatic of a bigger problem we face, in that we only expect one decent crop of youth players a generation, and hope that a couple breakthrough, and that we supplement these players onto “granny-rulers”.
We hopefully will be looking at pulling 3/3 players every second crop into the senior squad, regardless of where they ply their trade.
Last edited by Kingdom; 31/03/2021 at 10:15 AM.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
You must have been very disappointed with Jack Charlton's modus operandi. Whether we like it or not, the EPL is the yardstick for most. If John Giles says our schoolboy set-up and supply chain is in tatters, I tend to believe him.
Put your bias aside and read what I said. I’ve granny-rulers in quotes because, in my eyes they aren’t granny rulers, they are Irish qualified players.
I’ve no truck with players not born in Ireland playing for us. I’ve no truck with players born in Ireland who don’t want to play for us, who might not consider themselves Irish. Such is life.
If I’d the time, I’d love to do a breakdown of what players playing European international football play in the PL.
I’m not going to even address the Giles comment. If that’s the basis for some of your positions, I know that
A- it’s a waste of my time
B- Irish football doesn’t stand a chance of any kind of reform.
Last edited by Kingdom; 31/03/2021 at 11:10 AM.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
while giles may be correct, do you really believe that his view is based on any research?
If it cant be tied back to his Leeds team of the 70s then he is lost.
He named his preferred team on OTB last week. I stopped counting when he hit what seemed like his 14th player!
I counted up all on target and off target shots. Not shots that hit the first man. 7 vs Qatar, 7 vs Luxembourg, 5 vs Serbia. 19 from Sky Sport. I got the Ireland Denmark stats from ESPN. https://www.espn.com/soccer/match?gameId=529038
I seem to have my matches mixed up. It was 10 shots in the home game vs Denmark. I apologise.
Last edited by weldoninhio; 31/03/2021 at 11:46 AM.
His John Giles Foundation would have been involved. Your Leeds comment is nonsense. As for your second point, Giles may stumble occasionally with stats and names but he's still very sound of mind at near 80.
Last edited by Snapshot; 31/03/2021 at 11:43 AM.
exactly how deeply is he involved with the Foundation?
Did you read champagne football and its references to same?
Even last week in a discussion about the Irish team he kept making references to the Leeds team of the 70s and the slightly later Forest team with Martin O'Neill in it. It was irrelevant, but its his comfort zone.
You are probably alluding to The Stand where he spoke with Eamon Dunphy about recent Ireland defeats. He made short and relevant reference to the effectiveness of John Robertson and Martin O'Neill at Forest and, briefly, wingers at Leeds when suggesting James MacLean should face Qatar. It proved accurate. His Leeds references are occasional and not constant.
I don't know what his current input is at JGF. There's a Dunphy interview about it in his archive - look it up if you're interested. Champagne Football attracted controversy and litigation. Giles deals with it in another Dunphy interview - you should check that out too.
If you find the viewpoint of probably our greatest footballer dated and flawed - don't tune in. There are myriad talking heads from the current era on ubitiquous football shows and podcasts spouting, shouting and spoofing. Keep a puke bowl nearby.
I think Knight will be a very good premier league player in the coming years. I think Collins and O'Shea will be very decent premier league defenders in the coming years. I expect Kelleher and Bazunu to both reach a high level. Both are exceptionally talented for their age. Goalkeeping is a cruel business. I rate Alisson as arguably the best keeper in the world and for a number of weeks this season, he looked like a poor league 2 standard keeper. All keepers have their bad spells and it will be how those two can bounce back that will indicate how far they can go.
Parrott is the key for me. I have seen a lot of him and he was a world class 16 or 17 year old. Right now, he looks a reasonably talented 19 year old. Because of the hype and perhaps concerns about his friends, I would be concerned he won't be the great white hope that we thought he would be. He does look shy of confidence so maybe a goal or two and the love of a fanbase could kickstart it for him. With him, my feeling is he will either be a very good pl player or be playing at a very low level. I just don't see an inbetween with him. Fingers crossed he isn't this generation's Stokes.
Idah has the attributes to be a very good player. He is injured a lot which has put a stop to his gallop. He's at a good club though. My gut says he will be a high level championship striker for most of his career but he could have a spell where he gets into the premier league for a good period. Connolly hasn't really kicked on. His attitude is very poor off the pitch and he is a bit of a confidence player. If he knuckles down, he could be a bottom 6-8 pl striker averaging about 6-10 goals a season. That would mean he would be international class against most teams and would certainly be important for us. By all accounts, he's a gob****e so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Not sure what the craic is with Obafemi this season. I've seen glimpses of real talent but he is injured a lot and there seems to be question marks about his temperament at Southampton. He could drop down the divisions fast.
Manning looks like he might be a finge pl player but probably have a solid championship career for the most part. Nothing wrong with that I guess.
Travers is unlikely to have a career higher than league 1 in the long run imo. The others are mostly in his category.
Again I think you went looking for what you wanted to see. As did I of course.
You bring up the fact that he is playing at Rochdale as if he is some 30 year old journeyman who has found his level - he's 19 and on loan from Man City for his development.
As for howlers, if a keeper coming to claim a high ball on the edge of his box, having the IQ to take his hands out right on the line and then calmly pass it off to a green shirt is a howler, I'll have more of the same. It was nervy maybe but not anywhere close to howler territory. Sure he got the ball. Howlers are balls slipping through the legs and dropped in the box.
His major error was the penalty shout/dive on the edge of the box around 6 minutes in. It was bad and he had no business being out there. I've absolutely no doubt that he isn't studying the tape back and learning from it. It's also worth noting that he made an absolutely world class save from the resulting set piece.
Overall his distribution ranged from pin point to risky but he was solid under the ball and made some comfortable saves. He also had all the long range efforts covered that any good keeper would. The one that got past would have been an unreal save had he kept it out.
If you're judging him as the potential finished article I could see your points but he's 19. Maybe you're only reacting to overly positive reports? He will learn every time he makes a mistake. I watched him as a 16 year old for Rovers. He kept Alan Mannus out of the team for critical games in the league and in Europe. You know all this I think. He's the most naturally talented and mentally focused player I've seen in the LoI at that age. Give him a bit of time. The whole team are learning how to play with a keeper who doesn't lump it long first time.
On the game itself a lot has been made in certain areas of it being a better performance because Kenny turned to the more senior players. I wouldn't agree. What we've been missing hasn't been the sort of play Hendrick brings, it was Horgan and arguably Christie who were giving us two things we missed - 1. an option on the right and 2. some degree of forward, creative link up play in the final third. We just don't have anyone to finish a chance. If only we had 3 or 4 decent young options up top as we seem to in nets.
I didnt look at the stats, Im just going by my eye test. Under Mick it felt at times we were never going to create a chance let alone score. Under Kenny it feels like we are creating a ton of chances and not taking them.
Nope. I'm just calling it as I see it.
I've repeatedly acknowledged that he's 19 and on loan for development. And right now, in that context, he's on loan at Rochdale and conceding two goals a game.
I'll have to disagree on this one tbh (and with Stutts, and it's rare for me to disagree so much with a fellow keeper!). I don't think he could have been sure when committing to coming for the ball that dropping it was safe. I'm not entirely sure he didn't collide into his own player and lose control of the ball either. I don't think he should have come for it full stop. And coupled with the other rushes of blood - the foul early on, and the instance v Luxembourg - you can see how a pattern starts to emerge. For me, it's three instances in two games where for long spells we weren't under huge pressure.
I don't think it would have been an unreal save. I think it would have been a very good save - but there's keepers there who'd have saved it. It was a good two feet inside the post for example. Was his starting point a step too much to the left? I don't know. I certainly don't blame him for the goal, but I don't think it would have been an unreal save had he kept it out.
But this is the point. In the context of him playing international football right now, of course I'm judging his current ability. I know he's not the finished article, of course, but my point then becomes that I think he shouldn't be in the side until he's a stronger player. I've no doubt he'll become a stronger player, probably over the next 12 months. But right now, I think on balance, he's not ready.
It's interesting that his most vocal defenders seem to all be Rovers fans. I think there's a bit of a bias there to be honest. Which I can understand; I've the same bias for Conor Sammon in an Ireland jersey.
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