I don’t see all that much between Travers and Bazunu = = Both of them made mistakes, one was punished, one got away with it possibly through luck. It depends on how much any of our young goalkeepers improves and who if any gets playing regularly at the highest level.
Perhaps a bookie can test the faith some of our posters have ?
I was asked that question recently on the thread and my answer is that I didn't see much to differentiate them before the matches, and I don't see much to differentiate them now either.
They're both League One standard keepers - albeit that one has two years in hand - and they've both a lot to learn yet.
Randolph and Kelleher comfortably the first two still (if we assume Westwood has effectively retired)
That's not what I asked though. But fine if you don't want to get into the hypothetical.
Fair enough, but I think SK does rate Kelleher. However, if Bazunu had performed better I think he had the opportunity to jump above him. I doubt he did though.
Serbia game is second in my hypothetical situation though.
I'm actually with Kingdom on this. I find it so strange that people (not you) are so gung-ho to toss Hendrick on the scrapheap for Knight/Cullen and to abandon Shane Long for one of the goal shy children up front but there's this strange reluctance to cast Randolph aside for, say, Kelleher. Kelleher is playing marginally more ball than Randolph in the same division and their career trajectories are almost complete opposites at this point.
And if Bazunu is nominally third choice is he better served back with the U-21s or sitting on the bench with the seniors with Travers, O'Hara or Westwood making up the numbers in the senior team?
The ball is round and has many surprises.
Good question. I'd have as strong a U21 side as possible unless a U21 is likely starter or match day participant. I'd have Bazunu with the U21s on that basis. I'd have Knight over Hendrick on merit. Cullen definitely on merit. Both are seeing lots of game time. It's a bit different with our forwards. The U21 forwards have disappointed me. I think they need to knuckle down at club level but there's also a case for promoting them to the seniors as they have to learn the grown up game somehow though.
Both Travers and Bazunu have a lot to learn - agree. But if we are choosing between the two, and choosing between two League One standard keepers, is the match sharp option not the better choice?
I think Kelleher has (serious) weakness with balls across his body and has a tendency to be too "narrow" (Travers in contrast is good at filling out the goals (if that makes sense)). But agree Randolph and Kelleher are Kenny's first two choices.
To be honest, to be choosing among three League One keepers is a Hobson's Choice to me.
I think Kelleher should play at least one of the mooted friendlies against Andorra/Hungary, and probably Randolph the other. Then September is a while away yet and it's too early now to say who I'd want as third choice keeper.
That’s a bit misleading because generally speaking the more talented kids will join the first team’s pre-season tour. So you probably would have had players like Trent Alexander Arnold, Conor Coady, Brad Smith, Jordan Rossiter, Jordan Ibe, Joao Teixeira, Thiago Ilori, Sheyi Ojo, Ovie Ejaria, Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson with the senior team. All the more talented group. At that stage, Branagan was the only lad who had a chance at Liverpool from the 13. The likes of Yesil and Virtue had injuries derail their careers. Sinclair had an agent who ruined his development. The likes of Hart and Marsh were barely good enough to reach that level. So you’re almost comparing apples with oranges.
Kelleher has probably been with the senior pre-season group since Klopp’s first pre-season in 2016 or the year after in 2017.
At least we have some genuine potential between the sticks. We would be very unlucky not to get a good goalkeeper ( or even two) from this potential. If only we had the same potential in every other position.
Fair point. I picked it as an example and to help a bit of talk on the topic.
But pick the names you have there - TAA is obviously world class, and it'd be great if Kelleher/Bazunu went on a similar career path.
Coady is a decent Premier League defender.
Brad Smith is in the MLS. Rossiter is at Fleetwood. Ibe is at Derby. Teixeira is a squad player at Feyernoord. Ilori is at newly-promoted Lorient. Ojo is at Cardiff. Ejaria is at Reading. Kent is at Rangers. Wilson is Cardiff.
So of the players you've named, two are genuinely good, and the rest are in and around Championship level at best. And there's no reason Kelleher/Bazunu couldn't pick up an injury or get a bad agent either.
So I think that helps back up my argument against lofty9's suggestion we could be looking at two of the top keepers in Europe in the next few years. We need to be realistic about the future of academy prospects, and how the odds are stacked against even Liverpool/Man City academy players reaching the very top.
Statistically, they're about as good as Scotland, Greece, or Bosnia. We're just behind that now but sinking quickly. They're a side we'd have been comfortable favourites against ten years ago, but not now. I think people have a really fixed idea of how good we are. There's no one of the calibre of Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Duff, or Keane in the current squad, barring Coleman. A few are close, but all of them are defenders, and some of those are off form (Duffy, Doherty).
Last edited by John83; 01/04/2021 at 11:38 AM.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I do think peoples opinions are levelling out, around where we are at. I also think the players we have now just dont have the ability to play the way Kenny wants. He's banking on the younger lads from his time at the 21s, moulding them into the style and system he wants to play. But boys and mens football is very different, he has no guarantee any of them will amount to consistent senior internationals. And I think its pretty clear after 11 games, that the players haven't been able to adapt to what he wants.
It will be interesting to see how the 9 day training camp goes, if he serves some ultimatums, and who doesn't show up.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
The suggestion to make him number 1 was tongue in cheek stu. I think we agree that he made mistakes and needs to develop. We disagree on some of the errors being worthy of howler status and on the relative use of judging him on being ready to be #1 when he is 19 and auditioning to be #3 or maybe #2. I took way more positives from his performances over the two games while I agree that he was ropey against Qatar. He still had bright patches in that game though and if he was playing a different position we might not even be commenting.
I wouldn't put a ton of stock in Rochdale's nominees for young player of the month either. He's a loan signing. They are hardly going to get very excited about him unless there's scope to sign him. I've scanned their forum since he got there and it's a mixed bag. But again, he's 19 and frequently exposed playing behind the worst team in that league. Bound to be under focus.
Well I can agree with most of that.
The problem with keeper - and I know from experience - is your mistakes are way more noticeable. And for a good reason too.
Absolutely. I'm preparing a full doc of all your mistakes since you started posting about my Gavin. Leave him alone!
Surprised I've posted so much about Ireland games to be honest. I used to love following the national team but it went sour for me for various reasons and I just stuck to LoI. At least Kenny and this batch of young players makes things interesting again. For me at least.
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