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Thread: Shamrock Rovers V Dundalk (Presidents cup)

  1. #81
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    Toberona, it seems you are seeking to step into the mantle of argumentative dundalk fan previously made his own by the much missed Ezekial (RIP Colm).
    A bit of ways to go I'd think, but you have the whole season to hone your skills.

    This game was a "friendly" and I think we can all agree the important stuff starts on Friday.

  2. #82
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado View Post
    it is relevant i reckon.
    i think McGraith was going to give a yellow but was "influenced" to give a red by players surrounding him(sonni) The McCann 50 yard sprint in record time to get involved was proof. Shams have previous on this.
    That may well have been the case but I think it was foolish of the player to pass comment post match. I dont want a player who could be a key man to be a marked man already among the refs cabal. Now if he said something like he would have to adjust to how the game is referreed in LoI he was making his point in questioning the decision while almost sounding contrite (irrespective of any debate surrounding the tackle, the card or player reactions).

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado View Post
    it is relevant i reckon.
    i think McGraith was going to give a yellow but was "influenced" to give a red by players surrounding him(sonni) The McCann 50 yard sprint in record time to get involved was proof. Shams have previous on this.
    We learned it from the most successful team in the league over the past decade.

    Again, I'd say it was more Sonni moving his head towards McCann that influenced things afterwards if the ref hadn't already made up his mind to red card him for the red card offense. Given that Bradley and McCann also picked up cards, I don't think the ref was feeling particularly biased towards Rovers at the time.

    Still delighted McCann made the sprint. Already looking out for his new teammates. A dangerous tackle on your main man in preseason is exactly the right reason to get involved like that. I don't think Sonni was aiming to hurt him but it doesn't sound great does it? You'd be up in arms if Joey had gone in like that against McEleney before the season kicked off.

    And on the keeper, it was a compliment. He looks good. If he keeps it up he might be a good replacement for Mannus when we need one.

  4. #84
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    We learned it from the most successful team in the league over the past decade.

    Again, I'd say it was more Sonni moving his head towards McCann that influenced things afterwards if the ref hadn't already made up his mind to red card him for the red card offense. Given that Bradley and McCann also picked up cards, I don't think the ref was feeling particularly biased towards Rovers at the time.

    Still delighted McCann made the sprint. Already looking out for his new teammates. A dangerous tackle on your main man in preseason is exactly the right reason to get involved like that. I don't think Sonni was aiming to hurt him but it doesn't sound great does it? You'd be up in arms if Joey had gone in like that against McEleney before the season kicked off.

    And on the keeper, it was a compliment. He looks good. If he keeps it up he might be a good replacement for Mannus when we need one.
    And we learned t from playing in Europe! Im all for backing up teammates, players charging at each other even, but I hate to see the ref surrounded often in a deliberately intimidating manner (as opposed to a player pleading his case) regardless of who it is. I also hate when managers and players flash the imaginary cards. I think its a carding offense for players to do it not sure about those in the dugout but it should include them and be enforced. Seems to me that the players that get most outraged are often the the culprits themselves.

    As for Abibi being a good replacement for Mannus? Nah Bohs are the go to rivals for Rovers to raid players in their prime and Talbot fits the bill - yup he is is Bohs through and through but throw enough kitchen sinks at him and ye never know.

  5. #85
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    I don't like players surrounding the ref either but I didn't feel like that had happened at the time. To be honest I was a bit surprised at the calls of gamesmanship from Rovers so I've watched it back multiple times today. First McEleney takes out Hoare just inside the Rovers half. It's a fair challenge with his hip/shoulder but it knocks Hoare to the ground just after he plays a clever back-heel to set Burke off on his way. Stanton busts a gut to catch Burke and tries to take his ankles but misses. Never a hope of him getting the ball and it's a free but the ref plays advantage until Sonni jumps up in the air with two feet and comes in from behind and to the side of Burke with a beautiful but ultimately dangerous and illegal tackle. Then a bit of handbags breaks out between the two sets of players. The ref doesn't get much attention at all outside of 3 players initially.

    In order: McCann went for Sonni, Mandriou went to break that up and Boyle went to the ref. After Boyle says his bit, two Rovers players go to the ref. The rest were either breaking up scuffles or involved in them (Joey and Shields was great). Funnily enough guess who the two who went straight to the ref were? Gannon and Hoare. Must have picked up a few bad habits before they arrived in Tallaght. Gannon pulled back pretty quickly but actually made things look bad after Hoban pushes into him and he knocks Hoare into the ref. Finn went over a bit after that but he's captain and that's fairly standard.

    All in all there was really very little in the refs face from either team. Lopes and McCann have a quick word after things die down but he's never surrounded by Rovers players at all. Hoare and Gannon get the closest to it but only for a second. Much more going on between the players until he shows the red to Sonni at which point Cleary and a few others do surround him but that always happens after a red. They weren't right up in his face.

    I'm not saying you are accusing Rovers of gamesmanship Nesta but a few are and a quick rewatch of the recording on WatchLOI is all they need to put that to bed. I'd take screenshots but I feel like I've talked this to death at this point. Friday can't come quick enough.

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Tbh I meant more in general than this particular incident. At games Id be as quick as anyone to have a go at a linesman, ref, call foul, penos even when knowing that its marginal/near the box. But to claim a moral high ground on gamesmanship is too partial, every team is at it, its not new - Raf Cretaro was a master at fooling a ref and winding opposition players up and I hated him but In a wish he was with my club way and the list is endless. Like a broken record I still jest at CityRebel's (wherever he is) tendency to be critical of a teams physicality yet Cork had Mark O'Sullivan in the team and were coached by a chap who reluctantly played players if they wouldnt run through walls. It gets a bit punch and judy in a school yard when fans start pointing fingers with 'you started it'.

    Of course part of being a football fan is rivalry and disagreement and the debate contentious incidents cause. VAR would influence a lot of the different sorts of reaction to Sonni's tackle last weekend. Though while I get the reasons for VAR, that there are often millions at stake if a ref fooks up, the feelings after a Thierry Henry handball, maybe how errors can contribute to crowd trouble and even lives threatened at the extreme end of things. But when VAR eventually arrives here I also think or fear we will lose something as fans, the rollercoaster effect, tbh not sure I can put my finger on it as I do enjoy rugby also and the TMO has enhanced the game I think, the anticipation of waiting for a decision, while also occasionally being gobsmacked by a decision. I dont know if it would have the same positive effect on football here, by the time it arrives Finn Harps will be in Stranrolar and most of the issues from VAR elsewhere ironed out, then again it is LoI and it will probably never fail to leave us speechless. Bit of a VAR tangent there.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Tbh I meant more in general than this particular incident. At games Id be as quick as anyone to have a go at a linesman, ref, call foul, penos even when knowing that its marginal/near the box. But to claim a moral high ground on gamesmanship is too partial, every team is at it, its not new - Raf Cretaro was a master at fooling a ref and winding opposition players up and I hated him but In a wish he was with my club way and the list is endless. Like a broken record I still jest at CityRebel's (wherever he is) tendency to be critical of a teams physicality yet Cork had Mark O'Sullivan in the team and were coached by a chap who reluctantly played players if they wouldnt run through walls. It gets a bit punch and judy in a school yard when fans start pointing fingers with 'you started it'.

    Of course part of being a football fan is rivalry and disagreement and the debate contentious incidents cause. VAR would influence a lot of the different sorts of reaction to Sonni's tackle last weekend. Though while I get the reasons for VAR, that there are often millions at stake if a ref fooks up, the feelings after a Thierry Henry handball, maybe how errors can contribute to crowd trouble and even lives threatened at the extreme end of things. But when VAR eventually arrives here I also think or fear we will lose something as fans, the rollercoaster effect, tbh not sure I can put my finger on it as I do enjoy rugby also and the TMO has enhanced the game I think, the anticipation of waiting for a decision, while also occasionally being gobsmacked by a decision. I dont know if it would have the same positive effect on football here, by the time it arrives Finn Harps will be in Stranrolar and most of the issues from VAR elsewhere ironed out, then again it is LoI and it will probably never fail to leave us speechless. Bit of a VAR tangent there.
    You've gone so fantastically off topic that you've successfully shut me up. Others should take note.

  8. #88
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    Guilty as charged, the VAR stuff anyway! That's a good to know tactic lol, Im bad enough for going off topic as it is, sorry mods

  9. #89
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    Ah it wasn't that far off and VAR is a worthy target any day of the week. It's a pox. Don't even want to think how badly our refs would make a balls of it.

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    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    Well , the red card seems to have been rescinded. (At least Sonni seems clear to play vs Sligo).

    So i guess thats the end of that

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    I didn't think cards in Presidents Cup carried into the league

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    It was said earlier in the thread that no suspension would arise as the game was classed as a friendly.

    So still very much a red card

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  14. #93
    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    I didn't think cards in Presidents Cup carried into the league

    They did in previous years (yellows were carried on). Shane Keegan also said that Dundalk was going to appeal the decsion. But, its hard to get proper information in this league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa View Post
    They did in previous years (yellows were carried on). Shane Keegan also said that Dundalk was going to appeal the decsion. But, its hard to get proper information in this league.
    They didn't, Gartland was sent off in the presidents cup before and played the first league game.

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    Just seen the Roofe challange on the Prague keeper from last night - not that was 2 feet off the ground, out of control and studs up with no room for debate! it on the high side too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
    They didn't, Gartland was sent off in the presidents cup before and played the first league game.
    I'm hearing Sonni will get a 2 game suspension from next week but the Harps game won't count as he is unavailable. So he misses the Rovers and Bohs games.

    Which is it so?

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    He's not banned - he wasn't on the suspension list.

  19. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgonigle View Post
    I'm hearing Sonni will get a 2 game suspension from next week but the Harps game won't count as he is unavailable. So he misses the Rovers and Bohs games.

    Which is it so?
    That doesn’t make any sense. If he was due a ban because of the red in the Presidents Cup then he would be suspended for the game today as with a straight red a suspension in the next game would be mandatory. Any further suspension due to this would then be confirmed when the suspension list is issued next week.

  20. #99
    First Team Nah Nah Nah Nah's Avatar
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    Sounds like we should just be given the 3 points

  21. #100
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    Just reporting what I'm hearing. I thought it was done and dusted once he wasn't on this week's list. Would be peak FAI if he's on next week's list. We'll wait and see

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