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Thread: Shamrock Rovers V Dundalk (Presidents cup)

  1. #61
    Reserves mcgonigle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Would have been a great tackle but it was late.....20 years too late
    20 years ago you could lunge at the player and it was a great tackle. That's not a lunge in the direction of the player. Players make those lunging movements all the time in games to block shots and crosses.

    Anyway done to death now, there'll be a whole new set of wtf moments to discuss this time next week.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgonigle View Post
    He lunges, but not towards the player so how is it dangerous? He could never have caught Burke from that angle. The lunge is to reach the ball, he gets all of the ball and non of the man.
    This is just bizarre tbh.

    He could never have caught the guy who was on the ball? The two are, by definition, really close together, so of course he could have got the player.

    The point is that a tackle which is a two-footed, off-the-ground lunge from a player's blindside has a good chance of causing a nasty injury, and it doesn't matter if you get the ball or not, it's a red card. It's a tackle which was being considered a bit excessive in the 70s tbh. 20 years ago, that would have been a red card just as well - you may recall the 98 World Cup where there were a rash of red cards as FIFA clamped down on the tackle from behind.

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    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgonigle View Post
    20 years ago you could lunge at the player and it was a great tackle. That's not a lunge in the direction of the player. Players make those lunging movements all the time in games to block shots and crosses.

    Anyway done to death now, there'll be a whole new set of wtf moments to discuss this time next week.
    McG, to be fair when i saw it live and from the angle, i thought, mmm ok a bit late but thats a yellow. Only when I saw the other angle, Rovers tv I changed, and it was not a bit late, it was downright dangerous, and a lunge, and you just cannot do that. Players have even been sent off for tackles like this when they miss the ball, as its deemed to be dangerous. Sonni needs to learn from it and move on.

    Final comment, I hope refs will be consistent on this, as Duffy was on the end of a good few of these last year from other teams.
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calcio Jack View Post
    That angle also explains why McCann and Joey O’B got so animated-
    O'Brien (more than McCann) and Bradley should be full time cartoon characters as they are always flipping animated! It doesnt take much to wind them up and they call foul on everything ala John Caulfield, Burke has grown away from that and it seems like you could kick Finn repeatedly in the head and he just cant be wound up!

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    Big disappointments were Mandroiu for Rovers and Junior for Dundalk. (Although early days, obviously)

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    Reserves Bunny Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightstory View Post
    Big disappointments were Mandroiu for Rovers and Junior for Dundalk. (Although early days, obviously)

    Early days but they would be 2 players I'd have concerns about them stepping up to this level. Both were really good for about half a season 18 months ago & are now expected to perform for a team at a higher level than they have previously. I'm not saying they can't step up but I'm not convinced either will be starting in their respective team by the end of the season

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    Reserves Calcio Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    O'Brien (more than McCann) and Bradley should be full time cartoon characters as they are always flipping animated! It doesnt take much to wind them up and they call foul on everything ala John Caulfield, Burke has grown away from that and it seems like you could kick Finn repeatedly in the head and he just cant be wound up!
    Have a look at Chris Shields and his reaction to OíBrien ( or indeed his never ending moaning diving in every game he plays) we all have those types playing for us.... for older viewers I think the all time biggest moaner Iíve ever seen was Pat Byrne but he was also only second to to Jack Byrne as the best midfielder Iíve ever seen in over 50 years of watching LOI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    O'Brien (more than McCann) and Bradley should be full time cartoon characters as they are always flipping animated! It doesnt take much to wind them up and they call foul on everything ala John Caulfield, Burke has grown away from that and it seems like you could kick Finn repeatedly in the head and he just cant be wound up!
    Sure Dundalk have been like that for the best part of ten years. O'Donnell was particularly bad. Have to laugh when I see comments about Rovers "gamesmanship" engineering the red. The Rovers players and manager were, in their eyes and the eyes of many, reacting to a ridiculously over the top tackle from their main league rival that could have hurt their best attacker in essentially a preseason friendly....I was off my seat on the couch myself when he launched into the air. And from the refs angle sonni put his head very close to McCann afterwards just for good measure. If anything that probably confirmed the red for him.

    That said, the tackle was acrobatic and I think he did get the ball. I'd love if tackles like that were allowed. Its a skill. It also wasn't the first heavy challenge from Dundalk though. It wasn't even the first heavy challenge on Burke in that 5 second period. Finn was getting consistently hit late as well and I thought Cleary was heading towards a red himself. I also noticed it was our "softer" players coming in for attention so I'm delighted Joey and McCann got involved when it boiled over.

    Great game up until the red. Training exercise from there and Dundalk defended well. I was nervous about getting hit on the break but without Duffy Dundalk didn't seem to be trying to do that much. When it's straight to penos it removes a bit of that desire to take a risk I suppose. I'd be delighted with abidi and sonni as a dundalk fan. They look like they will pick up points for you. Abidi looks really good. And entertaining. Sonni could end up top scorer....For us, the jury is definitely out on mandriou. Few nice touches but got himself a silly card and didn't work hard enough....the expected script. McCann looked ok if a bit cumbersome. Gannon was good. Scales isn't a wingback but his goal was class. Gaffney started well and faded. That won't be our best 11 for me and we badly missed ONeill and Kavanagh..

    So good to have it back and have something to moan about.

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Ah lads, that was too easy! But fair play, there was no denying the mouth types and Id never claim that Dundalk are a team of total sportsmanship and virtue. Not half as much fun as Cork fans and the sporting efforts to not tackling at all.

    I'm not sure how to take the Abibi is entertaining comment!? The last thing I want is an 'entertaining' keeper - dull and effective will do nicely!!

    While players need to be protected by good referring I too enjoyed the more physical side to game in the past. The contact aspect of the game has been diluted almost by accident as dealing with players from S America and probably Spain/Portugal mainly, for exaggerating every contact, made games unwatchable. Calibre of refs too (if only you could clone Collina) Seems it was easier to redefine what was 'dangerous' than to penalise some of the best paid actors in the world in a consistent manner. The more popular players are those that get on with things, the type that ye know are hurt when they stay down (as frustrating as it can be Im not really talking about drawing a foul or tactical fouls). The way Burke didnt roll around and maintained a calmness that others didnt shows how much he has matured, especially playing Dundalk!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Ah lads, that was too easy! But fair play, there was no denying the mouth types and Id never claim that Dundalk are a team of total sportsmanship and virtue. Not half as much fun as Cork fans and the sporting efforts to not tackling at all.

    I'm not sure how to take the Abibi is entertaining comment!? The last thing I want is an 'entertaining' keeper - dull and effective will do nicely!!

    While players need to be protected by good referring I too enjoyed the more physical side to game in the past. The contact aspect of the game has been diluted almost by accident as dealing with players from S America and probably Spain/Portugal mainly, for exaggerating every contact, made games unwatchable. Calibre of refs too (if only you could clone Collina) Seems it was easier to redefine what was 'dangerous' than to penalise some of the best paid actors in the world in a consistent manner. The more popular players are those that get on with things, the type that ye know are hurt when they stay down (as frustrating as it can be Im not really talking about drawing a foul or tactical fouls). The way Burke didnt roll around and maintained a calmness that others didnt shows how much he has matured, especially playing Dundalk!
    Caught me pre coffee there. Dundalk are obviously very good sportsmen. Aren't you still celebrating your run of no cards in Europe?

    On Abibi I meant he is passionate. Ran off to celebrate the win like it was a CL final. Has that little bit of madness you want to see. Sign of a good keeper.

    Agree on Burke, he's come along way from swinging the boot and getting needless reds. Great to see him bounce back up. Hopefully mandriou can develop in the same way. Bradley's good with that type of player. Possibly because he was a bit like that himself!

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Not one free in a EL game!! See Cork fans thats how to do it (though when ye dont get near the ball for most of the game....).

    Pre-season or not it was a good shoot-out for Abibi and possibly put in a good bit of prep work. He seems a very calm and considered lad in interviews he has done, not that that says too much when he crosses the whitewash. We have to see still how the new signings will be but the age profile of the squad has turned a corner and will be less open to the aging former champions tag.

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    First Team ToberonaTornado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    Caught me pre coffee there. Dundalk are obviously very good sportsmen. Aren't you still celebrating your run of no cards in Europe?

    On Abibi I meant he is passionate. Ran off to celebrate the win like it was a CL final. Has that little bit of madness you want to see. Sign of a good keeper.

    Agree on Burke, he's come along way from swinging the boot and getting needless reds. Great to see him bounce back up. Hopefully mandriou can develop in the same way. Bradley's good with that type of player. Possibly because he was a bit like that himself!
    OR prob off celebrating with his GK coach who told him pre-match which way to go for the pennos? The guy is only 24 and is as enthusiastic as hell.Hopefully he works out ok for us.

    Dundalk seemed sure of themselves being able to sit in for most of the game and were able to soak up a lot of pressure and break up the field when able.Continued when in 10 man man mode.

    Down to ten -

    For the s/o - never 1 imo
    Sonni is never trying to hurt anyone.Foul for sure,but McCann runs half the field to complain to the ref(he prob never seen it) and the ref(McGraith) decides to not only send him off,but also issues yellow cards to anyone standing in his eyesight!! Shocking imo.

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I dont agree on it being shocking referring TT! The tackle is debatably dangerous, but these days its giving a ref an opportunity to flash a card. There was an edge to the game which is usually good but it was looking like it could boil over and it a preseason friendly. I was thinking that the ref was losing any control at all but those few yellows seemed to take the heat out of things. Sonni is an assured and confident chap going by post match interviews, regardless of what he or anyone thinks, players need to get to know the refs that ye can push of bully from a yellow to red card. In this case least said soonest mended, he doesnt want to develop a rep!!

  14. #74
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado View Post
    For the s/o - never 1 imo
    Sonni is never trying to hurt anyone.
    This isn't relevant.

    He could very easily have caused a bad injury lunging in two-footed and studs up like that, whether he meant to or not.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    This isn't relevant.

    He could very easily have caused a bad injury lunging in two-footed and studs up like that, whether he meant to or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I dont agree on it being shocking referring TT! The tackle is debatably dangerous, but these days its giving a ref an opportunity to flash a card. There was an edge to the game which is usually good but it was looking like it could boil over and it a preseason friendly. I was thinking that the ref was losing any control at all but those few yellows seemed to take the heat out of things. Sonni is an assured and confident chap going by post match interviews, regardless of what he or anyone thinks, players need to get to know the refs that ye can push of bully from a yellow to red card. In this case least said soonest mended, he doesnt want to develop a rep!!
    it is relevant i reckon.
    i think McGraith was going to give a yellow but was "influenced" to give a red by players surrounding him(sonni) The McCann 50 yard sprint in record time to get involved was proof. Shams have previous on this.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    It really isn't relevant.

    A tackle like that has a much higher-than-average chance of causing a bad injury. That's why it's outlawed, even if you miss the player or get the ball. It's a very dangerous tackle, and tackles like it ended careers until a proper clampdown started in the 70s. The FIFA rules are quite clear on it -

    Quote Originally Posted by FIFA
    Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play
    Serious foul play is a red card. Getting the ball or not meaning to hurt anyone don't come into it.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 17/03/2021 at 8:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado View Post
    it is relevant i reckon.
    i think McGraith was going to give a yellow but was "influenced" to give a red by players surrounding him(sonni) The McCann 50 yard sprint in record time to get involved was proof. Shams have previous on this.
    So do Dundalk, sure Boyle is the first player to sprint to the ref.

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    International Prospect sadloserkid's Avatar
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    Anybody who goes in with both feet off the ground can't pretend that there's zero intention to hurt - they've effectively given up any real control of what happens next, especially at speed.

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    McGraith(ref) is averaging 6 yellows a game since he stepped up to the Prem.He Must have been a nightmare in the 1st.
    Appreciate all the telling me i'm wrong comeback keep well everyone

  20. #80
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Well, it's FIFA who are telling you you're wrong.

    But maybe you know better than them. I dunno.

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