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Thread: 2023 UEFA Under-21 Championships

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Oh they can be technically quite efficient, for sure, but their development is still hindered by playing a key developmental phase in a largely part-time environment. This is looking at U19s up, starting with guys who maybe aren't necessarily getting regular first-team LoI football and certainly aren't fully pro. The comparison between a fairly modest club like Molde and any LoI side (even Rovers) is quite stark.

    I think your latter point is the same point I made though. Yes, other 21s players are often playing first-team football at home. We're an outlier in Europe in that we export players at 16 to a foreign academy. If they were able to stay at home and come through the ranks here - like in almost every other European country - then they'd be getting first-team LoI ball at 19-22 or so, and then moving to England for decent fees if good enough. I think our approach to those key developmental years is very lacking (and that's before you look at players going to England who come back three years later without having made it - which is the majority of them)
    Tell that to Gavin Bazunu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    I don't disagree with that you are saying but see if from a different angle. While not necessarily currently or with the last batch of U21s, I've generally felt the U21 LOI players have been more effective than their (technically better) UK based counterparts simply because they are playing first-team football (would point to the UCD chap Kerrigan who played against Luxembourg - thought he made quite a strong impact (on his debut?)). The UK based players selected at U21 are not always first team footballers and if they are, they are on the radar of a senior call-up. If we are wondering why there is a drop in ranking from U17/U19 to U21 level, it is as much down to our technically better players not getting first team football in the UK, when our peers playing in other leagues are, as domestic structure failings.
    There is a drop at u21 level are down to the fact that you had Noel King incharge for so long…

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSAD View Post
    Tell that to Gavin Bazunu.
    Yeah, taking one datum point doesn't really prove or disprove the macro-level point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elatedscum View Post
    Campaigns are longer, so results turn around slower. We've only had one campaign since Noel King left and it went a little pear shaped at the end. If you look at the current eligible squad, you could have a team of:

    Bazunu

    O'Connor
    Omobamidele
    Collins
    Bagan

    Coventry
    Kilkenny

    Knight
    Parrott
    Connolly

    Idah

    That's a team that would win the group.

    Compared to other teams in our u21 group, total eligible players in the senior squad in this window:

    Ireland 7
    Luxembourg 6
    Italy 2
    Bosnia 1
    Montenegro 0
    Sweden 0

    For a wider sample, let's also look at our Senior group:

    Ireland 7
    Luxembourg 6
    Azerbaijan 2
    Serbia 2
    Portugal 1
    That's a useful analysis. Answers my question about us cannibalising (for want of a better term) our U21s more than others due to lack of current depth. It'll be interesting to see if there's a greater convergence of performances and coefficients going forward once the senior squad stabilises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poor Student View Post
    That's a useful analysis. Answers my question about us cannibalising (for want of a better term) our U21s more than others due to lack of current depth. It'll be interesting to see if there's a greater convergence of performances and coefficients going forward once the senior squad stabilises.
    Yeah I can't see the 2002 crop of U21s being affected like the 2000 crop. The lads who'll be overage after this campaign will hopefully start replacing lads who'll be phased out of the seniors over the next couple of years and we've already got the three best 2002 age group players in the seniors already with Bazunu, Omobamidele, and Parrott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Oh they can be technically quite efficient, for sure, but their development is still hindered by playing a key developmental phase in a largely part-time environment. This is looking at U19s up, starting with guys who maybe aren't necessarily getting regular first-team LoI football and certainly aren't fully pro. The comparison between a fairly modest club like Molde and any LoI side (even Rovers) is quite stark.

    I think your latter point is the same point I made though. Yes, other 21s players are often playing first-team football at home. We're an outlier in Europe in that we export players at 16 to a foreign academy. If they were able to stay at home and come through the ranks here - like in almost every other European country - then they'd be getting first-team LoI ball at 19-22 or so, and then moving to England for decent fees if good enough. I think our approach to those key developmental years is very lacking (and that's before you look at players going to England who come back three years later without having made it - which is the majority of them)
    I'd more go with this post and your earlier one on the matter, you do have the potential to make good points on occasion. The promotion of the best underage talent to the senior squad this term just exposes other shortcomings.
    The Iceland senior squad in transition contains 8 u21 players (when fit), yet the u21 team have maintained a similar level of competitiveness in this campaign. Whilst the most talented Icelandic youngsters are most always cherrypicked mid teens, the majority don't go abroad until aged 19/20/21, after they've played a season or two at senior level, finished their 2nd level education and have already been capped at all underage levels. From the players perspective, a competent level of maturity, attitude and football ability has been learned, so if things don't work out with their first club they'll find another club readily who can use them.
    However, the Faroese senior squad has no u21 eligible player, they currently have a policy of using the best youngsters for the u21 squad. This has had the effect of maintaining a good level of competitiveness against vastly bigger federations at the u21 grade and probably develops a better 'mentalitee'. Different strokes for different folk.
    The smaller federations who have invested wisely in home grown professional standard coaches and coaching infrastucture have gained the most benefit from that UEFA/FIFA TV income/grants etc which is distributed equally to each federation. The FAI is about 15 years (or more) behind.

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    Squad announced for Italy and Sweden: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/craw...X7uyWVZbNYGaqA

    Armstrong Oko-Flex strong form for West Ham under 23s rewarded. Interesting to see Andrew Moran isn't in there but Evan Ferguson is. Johansson back from 19's to 21's. Festy Ebosele and Will Smallbone return from injury. Gavin Kilkenny remains with the 21's.

    Anything else of note?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    Squad announced for Italy and Sweden: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/craw...X7uyWVZbNYGaqA

    Armstrong Oko-Flex strong form for West Ham under 23s rewarded. Interesting to see Andrew Moran isn't in there but Evan Ferguson is. Johansson back from 19's to 21's. Festy Ebosele and Will Smallbone return from injury. Gavin Kilkenny remains with the 21's.

    Anything else of note?
    All the keepers are Irish based lads, are they picked because they are playing week in week out? or is there no one of note across the water

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    I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
    If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?
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    Dan Rose probably would be there but he's going to be the U19s #1, so no point warming the bench at 21s level. We're in a weird spot too that our best U21 keeper starts for our senior team, so there's that!

    Good to see Oko-Flex there. Would love for to kick on and get a senior appearance at West Ham soon.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Is McGinty, the Sligo keeper, overage now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Is McGinty, the Sligo keeper, overage now?
    Yeah he's 22 now. Born in August 1999, so misses out by 4 months!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
    If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?
    I think so. Once u are under 21 years of age u can do what u want, including 3 senior competitive caps ( which is ridiculous) but once u hit 21 and play competitive game you are officially committed

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
    If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?
    Yeah I'm still confused on that rule whether it includes competitive U21 games or just senior games. I always assumed it would tie the likes of Gallagher, Coventry, and soon Smallbone down but the rule does state if they appear in A international level. Would assume A international level means senior team.

    Interesting that Crawford mentioned yesterday that the FAI were interested in Conor Bradley and had talked to 3rd parties about the possibility of switching before he was called up to Northern Ireland senior team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
    If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?
    Can we get clarity on this once and for all? it would be good to know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    I think so. Once u are under 21 years of age u can do what u want, including 3 senior competitive caps ( which is ridiculous) but once u hit 21 and play competitive game you are officially committed
    Don't think it's that ridiculous especially now with nation's league replacing friendlies. Stops bigger nation's from capping young dual nationality players and then not playing them again. FIFA scraped getting capped at U21 level tying a player down as France were doing it with young players of African descent.

    Small nation's will benefit more now in the long run. And players will have to wait three years now after their last appearance before they can play with their new nation so won't get lads just switching at the drop of a hat and walking into teams like Rice did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR89 View Post
    Don't think it's that ridiculous especially now with nation's league replacing friendlies. Stops bigger nation's from capping young dual nationality players and then not playing them again. FIFA scraped getting capped at U21 level tying a player down as France were doing it with young players of African descent.

    Small nation's will benefit more now in the long run. And players will have to wait three years now after their last appearance before they can play with their new nation so won't get lads just switching at the drop of a hat and walking into teams like Rice did.
    Its not just nations league. A guys can play 3 competitive world Cup or European championship qualifying games for the senior team and then defect?.no sorry that is ridiculous

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    Festy Ebosele scored for Derby today. Good man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
    If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?
    Why do you put value on those claims? are you not a UCD laureate?
    Has Conor been capped at senior competive level yet? And what were you reading, the Daily Dimwittery?

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    Why do you put value on those claims? are you not a UCD laureate?
    Has Conor been capped at senior competive level yet? And what were you reading, the Daily Dimwittery?
    no, I'm asking if it's true
    no, UL graduate
    no, just u21
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