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Thread: Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 24th March 2021 - World Cup 2022 Qualifier

  1. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    So the other night when I text you the team, you replied saying - looks good - I can screenshot it and add it to the post if that helps. What did you mean by " looks good " I must have misunderstood.

    Moving on, we shouldn't be living in futuristic fantasy land according to you and picking potentially good players but the only ones you could really point to as having missed out would be Brady and Hendrick .... who also are an example of this having failed in the past. So which is it to be ?

    I am sure SK would love to have those two in their supposed prime underpinning this but their performances have not done that in some time.

    Are you advocating Duffy ?
    Have you watched his last performances for Celtic before they dropped him ?

    That leaves Long. So even if that one example gets past, and its tenuous, none of this amount what you have said. None of it.

    So who would you have picked the other night, out of interest ? With another nod of reminder that you were happy at the time with the team that was named.
    TLDR; Did I say on here I didn't agree with the selection?
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  2. #822
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    TLDR; Did I say on here I didn't agree with the selection?
    TLDR indeed, from the man with the longest post most words used yesterday in my time on here, without actually saying anything at all

    So to repeat myself, what actually are you saying ? Cos it's no to youth, no to formerly youth players, no to passing the football, no to what exactly ? And yes to what exactly ?

    Some vague desire to embrace a vision of pragmatism, but one you cannot articulate ?

    Or is it a bit of 4 4 2 and Ole Ole at a major finals by any means necessary ? The odd day out aren't Ireland and aren't we great ? I think it's that.

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  4. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    TLDR indeed, from the man with the longest post most words used yesterday in my time on here, without actually saying anything at all

    So to repeat myself, what actually are you saying ? Cos it's no to youth, no to formerly youth players, no to passing the football, no to what exactly ? And yes to what exactly ?

    Some vague desire to embrace a vision of pragmatism, but one you cannot articulate ?

    Or is it a bit of 4 4 2 and Ole Ole at a major finals by any means necessary ? The odd day out aren't Ireland and aren't we great ? I think it's that.
    Well if to you, I am not actually saying anything theres not much point in me trying to explain anything now is there

    And for a man who very rarely goes to games, but offers 101 excuses that's highly insulting

    I think I have gone through with the replies to John, it covers an acceptance that at the moment we are bare in that middle age group the 30 caps or so players who have international experience and the lads who are pushing on getting past it, or just haven't delivered v the very young who have a handful of caps between them. We are in a bit of a difficult situation in that regard.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  5. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Very good post and I agree completely with the 23-28 age group observation and I think Kingdom pointed this out before Christmas. We've had a 5 year period of nothing basically and no one coming through. It has certainly dampened expectations and I think this is generally being accepted across the board. Kenny was ballsy all the same going with a full quota of young lads over the more experienced, and his second half subs showed that he was right(even if lack of experience led to the goals, his hand was forced), they had very little impact and little to show, getting even the basics wrong. We have been somewhat forced into this, or a few of the games Kenny has been in charge of, but this is the point I was making these lads were once the future, and I'm sure if you go back 10 years or so we were talking about these lads in the same vein as we're talking about the new group. So while I agree with you that we don't really have many choices at present, we need to be realistic about our campaigns and not just writing them off up front.
    Exactly which full quota of young lads did he pick on Wednesday? Travers was enforced, O'Shea was there fully on merit. Connolly arguably (equally arguably not). That leaves Molumby for me. And picking him over Hendrick is a valid judgment call. Parrott didn't even make the final squad.

    I'd have thought being realistic about our chances in this campaign and writing it off are the same thing really. But again, who is seriously suggesting we're writing off this campaign? Kenny picked what he thought was his best available team. I think most of us liked the selection and the shape.

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  7. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Well if to you, I am not actually saying anything theres not much point in me trying to explain anything now is there

    And for a man who very rarely goes to games, but offers 101 excuses that's highly insulting

    I think I have gone through with the replies to John, it covers an acceptance that at the moment we are bare in that middle age group the 30 caps or so players who have international experience and the lads who are pushing on getting past it, or just haven't delivered v the very young who have a handful of caps between them. We are in a bit of a difficult situation in that regard.
    Name your team and how you'd set them up Paul. This visionary pragmatism, bestow it upon us there.

    And point our where and how this WC campaign was written off at source please ?

    Ole oleole ooooleeee we're we're drunk we're drunk ....
    Isn't that it ?

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  9. #826
    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    3 of them, brady, long and collins, were involved in the 2nd goal
    JB, in all seriousness, you're not giving Brady credit for the goal? He tqkes a bad touch with the wrong foot and hoofs the ball aimlessly forward. He derserves no credit - Long and Collins get the kudos.
    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Well if to you, I am not actually saying anything there's not much point in me trying to explain anything now is there

    And for a man who very rarely goes to games, but offers 101 excuses that's highly insulting

    I think I have gone through with the replies to John, it covers an acceptance that at the moment we are bare in that middle age group the 30 caps or so players who have international experience and the lads who are pushing on getting past it, or just haven't delivered v the very young who have a handful of caps between them. We are in a bit of a difficult situation in that regard.
    Well to be fair to you, it's not quite spoofery, but you're not giving us tangibles to work with - nothing to pin you down on so-to-speak. after all, if one of us goes out on a limb with a prediction, with an idea or perspective on why a selection or tactic should be preferred, and it doesn't work, there's no problem nailing posters over that.

    Anyway, lets say, you were going to expand on what you've put previously on these pages, would it be a stretch to suggest that you'd pick the team below, if you were going to go with a 442, say:
    --------------Travers
    Coleman Duffy Clark/OShea Stevens
    Hendrick Cullen Brady McClean
    ---------Long ---- Collins

    two things don't happen: the ball doesn't go through the phases, but you'd argue it didn't go through the phases anyway. Fine, the ball gets played through the channels, or it goes long. Serbia always have the extra body at the back, so likely mop up breaking ball, and they always have two off Vlahovic meaning that one of our defenders comes out, one of them comes in, or Cullen drops deeper.
    In the last decade, what we've struggled the most has been ball retention. We have to break the cycle of conceding possession, defending heroically for 80mins, and pressing frantically in vain for an equaliser or a consolation. It is not a practical refuge going forward.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Dunne
    https://www.sundayworld.com/sport/so...-40241715.html
    - March 26 2021 07:29 AM
    What we saw from Ireland against Serbia on Wednesday was alright. But ďalrightĒ is not good enough in a World Cup qualifier and no matter how good the performance was, it was another defeat and we canít take any more moral victories. You canít keep taking positives out of defeats, itís all about getting results and the team didnít manage that.
    WC 2018 - 5/12 wins (Georgia, Moldova, Austria, Serbia!, Wales - no major nations there).
    WC 2014 - 4/10 wins (Germany, Sweden, Austria, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Faroes)
    WC 2010 - 5/12 wins (italy, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Georgia)
    WC 2006 - 4/12 wins (France, Switzerland, Israel, Cyprus, Faroes)

    You might want to have a look back through your recent history there Richard.

    Individual performances give us hope and we understand that we have good players, but Iím still concerned about whether we have the players to play the way this manager wants, to build up slowly and play through midfield
    Woah there horsey. But if the previous two managers - English professionals - played the other way, with better players, and it didn't qualify us, should we continue on that track with inferior players, who have never played that style of football with underage teams ?

    Itís not all doom and gloom with Ireland, the team werenít wiped off the park by Serbia in Belgrade, they had good possession. But they just didnít have the creativity to cause them trouble - I feared once Ireland took the lead that it would just wake Serbia up and thatís how it turned out. I also think we are in danger of talking Serbia up too much, as if they are one of the major nations. Theyíre not, theyíve struggled any time they went to a major finals in the last 20 years - Scotland beat them last year and we wouldnít fear Scotland.
    Last I checked - 2018 - with your preferred style Richard, we couldn't beat them in Belgrade, and didn't lay a glove on them in Dublin. Likewise, with Scotland - we mightn't fear them, but we cannae bate em either - again, with your preferred style of football, and a professional manager.

    If you are hoping to qualify for a World Cup you canít lose to a team who are your rivals for second place and then chalk it up as a moral victory. Losing so early puts added pressure on the rest of the group games.
    First I've heard anyone refer to the game as amoral victory.

    I also try to look at what went before, and while the two defenders were exposed for that third goal, there was no pressure from midfield to pick up Dusan Tadic before he floated in that ball.
    Cullen broke up play, we went on the counter - his ball into Long was intercepted and they broke quickly.

    Iíd see Serbia and Ireland as even enough in terms of talent but in Tadic they have that extra bit of quality, someone who can open teams up, which Ireland lack. If Ireland under Stephen Kenny are going to play this passing game, they need someone with the creativity, the invention, to open up the opposition and create chances.
    That's laughable. Regardless of that difference of opinion, isn't it mad how there's always a 'but'?

    Apart from Wes Hoolahan, weíve not had a player like that with Ireland. Our system doesnít create that player, who gets the freedom to try things. In a structured team, which we have, teams will work us out, theyíll know what our midfielders will do. You need someone who is a maverick, who works off the cuff, who thinks things up, who has the confidence to try and beat someone in a one-on-one, even if that means losing the ball occasionally.
    Aiden McGeady.

    Itís hard to create when you lack a player like that, and thatís not Stephen Kennyís fault, but itís still an issue thatís there and has to be dealt with.
    If he doesnít have a Wes-type player available, then he has to come up with the tactics to win games, play in a different style.
    Oh Richard, you big loveable fool. The last two managers haven't been able to win games doing what you're suggesting.....this is the different style.

    Irish teams over the years - often the teams I played in - were criticised for going from back to front too quickly, and thereís always space for us to play better football as a nation, so Kenny is right in trying to bring in more build-up to the play.
    Your teams were criticised for giving the football away constantly, and not getting results.

    But we need to get the ball forward quickly, press teams, like what happened with Irelandís second goal. A ball down the channel, a pass into the box and a mistake from their defender led to James Collinsí goal. Thatís where Ireland are good, thatís where our energy and belief as a team comes from.
    Ah, that's the gameplan. press them into making mistakes. Not engineering chances ourselves. And what happens when the opposition doesn't make mistakes?

    But when we try to only build play slowly, thatís not what Ireland do and if teams get back into a good defensive shape, weíll find it very hard to break them down.
    Erm, our first goal?

    We need to mix it up a bit and I felt James McClean showed a bit of energy when he came on. He tried to get crosses in and thatís where we are more likely to cause teams problems, by getting it wide and getting crosses in, instead of playing through the middle all the time. In Robinson and Connolly we have good strikers, but we need to hit them early.
    Are you ****ting me Richard? That's like saying the dog chasing the car showed a bit of vigour. Futile, but full of vigour.

    We have players who are learning about international football and itís hard, as Dara OíShea is finding out. For me, there was a three-year gap between my first time in the Irish squad and my competitive debut. It was a different era, we had better players then. I had experienced players around me in the squad who I could learn from, defenders like Steve Staunton, so I had a good idea of the demands of international football before Mick put me in at the start of the qualifiers for 2002. These players donít have that, they donít have those players to look up to. Dara made a mistake for the first goal, his positioning was wrong, and heíll learn from that.
    Dara had Seamus Coleman playing on one side of him - a candidate for Irish player of the 00s, and a possible all-time right back, and Ciaran Clark, who has played in what is considered a successful Euro 2016.
    You learned under Gary Breen and Kenny Cunningham - rather than Staunton.

    But we need to beat Luxembourg tomorrow, theyíre not the minnows they were 20 years ago and theyíll be well-organised. The most important thing is not the performance but to win the game. If we donít win, then there really is a serious problem. There are no excuses for not winning
    So we cannot talk up Serbia, and we cannot talk down Luxembourg, even though they are bottom seeds? Which is it.


    It's the media, through articles - bad ones- like that, that are stirring the pot unfairly, but aren't being called on it.
    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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  12. #828
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    @paul_oshea, knock off the spelling and grammar stuff please.

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    Multiple legitimate questions above completely ignored and he has the gall then to accuse other posters of going missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Very quiet on here today. Some very sheepish lads I imagine, no one should feel embarrassed it's an opinions based forum!

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    Well said. Iím also still waiting on an answer to a direct question put to him on the Bulgaria match thread. He took a ban rather than answer it. Pathetic really.

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    Definite penalty for that tackle on Connolly

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    Serbia blessed that theres no VAR 2 games in a row....



    That shows how far over the line the Ronaldo no goal was
    Last edited by tetsujin1979; 30/03/2021 at 9:51 AM. Reason: Embedded tweet

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  21. #834
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    One guy mentioned it here I think. Absolute certain second yellow.

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