Disagree. It was time an Arab country got a World Cup. Every other ethnic area (except the Asian sub continent) has had a world cup. There is a huge amount of anti-Arab bias in the western media, particularly since the USA and UK failed in their bids. The amount of racist memes going round is unbelievable. Every chance they get to show a few empty seats is grabbed at. Of course Muslim values are not for most of us but you know gay rights are only a relatively new phenomenon here. If the WC had been awarded in Ireland, the Qataris could have protested about women's health issues, homelessness, alcoholism and drug abuse here to name but a few. It's not ideal but it's there.Originally Posted by seanfhear
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
I look forward to your support for Vanuatu's WC bid. After all, they've had zero world cups in Oceania. There isn't enough land for the stadia required, but I'm sure we can just make rafts of migrant labourers. They don't have any oil money to buy FIFA votes, but let's not engage in violence against the socio-economically disadvantaged.
Accusing Qatar WC critics of racism is bunkum. There are plenty of grounds to criticise it validly, and hiding behind that shield debases it and you.
3 of the last 4 games have ended nil nil now,poor start to the competition really…..
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
Despite that, and Iran, I'd agree withn John Hartson on ITV just now (yes, I'm stuck with UK coverage) after a third 0-0 in 24 hours that defences / defensive systems have been on top this tournament so far. It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues.
Yes, but one major upset and two very commanding performances from fancied teams. I've seen worse starts...
meh, 1st round of games in a knock out comp being cagey/poor is hardly a surprise, especially with such short prep times for teams before it all started. it'll open up in the next round of games im sure.
I'll give ya full marks for fighting that corner ~ ~ I certainly wouldn't ~ ~ On the grounds of all the workers that died and how they were / are treated alone ~ ~ Qatar is a very racist place as are the other similar Arab oil places.
I think that's a bit of a trend in football lately anyway. 5 subs isn't helping either - players aren't getting tired late on and making mistakes.
But yeah, England, France and the Saudis have given value, so it's been a solid enough start to things so far.
5 Subs is an incredible help to the bigger footballing nations ~ ~ Even more so when games are played close together such as in tournaments and even in the windows ~ ~ Smaller nations have less and less chance as time goes by ~ ~ International football will become less and less attractive to the fans of smaller footballing nations in the future ~ ~ That seems inevitable.
Even if by chance we managed to get 11 good players how can we ever hope to compete against teams with 25 good players especially with 5 subs available to use ! !
The Economist has an editorial this week saying the same thing. There was far less uproar when China / Russia were awarded Olympics (3?) and a World Cup. Geopolitically Qatar is more "onside" wrt the West than other arab countries etc.
Personally I think an arab/muslim country is deserving of a WC but Qatar, the size of an Irish county, should not be a sole host. The sustainability aspect is ridiculous. A "gulf" WC in selected cities would have been a better proposition. The best WC of my childhood was Argentina which was run by murderous military dictators. Irish attitudes to women, even stealing their babies and sending them to catholics in America, and to this day systemic cover up of child abuse are all things an arab country could take aim at us for. We all buy oil from these States so why shouldn't we play football there? I'm not saying we should be quiet about our morality concerns but we can't arm these countries, buy their oil, allow them to buy leading European football clubs and then in the same breath say they can't host a global football tournament imho.
The treatment of migrant workers was of course a disgrace - that's where I'm most uncomfortable. The bid terms should have ensured worker protection.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 23/11/2022 at 12:56 PM.
It'd be a help to us too if we ever used them before 80 minutes
Germany look decent,Japan hanging on a bit but should be further behind….
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
It does seem ~ ~ Frugal use alright ~ ~ And shows little faith to / of the subs in them by Kenny which is not exactly good for morale of the squad.It'd be a help to us too if we ever used them before 80 minutes
Agree with all you've put in that post - though just to throw a curve-ball, you look at our own treatment of migrant workers, with covid outbreaks occurring in the summer of 2020 at meat-packing plants because, when it came down to it, both sides view migrant workers as people we can put working in conditions and for pay that local workers (rightly) wouldn't put up with, and at a high carbon footprint too in terms of travel. It's not the same level as in Qatar of course (taking passports in particular), but still, it's starting down the same route. Are we really without sin ourselves there?
There's lots of hypocrisy on show I think - Russia expelled for the Ukraine invasion and calls for Iran to be banned because they're supplying drones, but no such comments while the Saudis bomb Yemen with English and US equipment. And could you imagine the reaction if Qatar turned up for a game in the US with armbands saying "Two genders" and highlighting some of the nonsense going on over there, or the Tavistock scandal in the NHS (unmonitored puberty blockers and so forth)?
That said, I also agree with John's criticism of Owls' post; it's too simplistic to dismiss criticism of Qatar as anti-Arab racism. Qatar shouldn't be hosting the World Cup primarily for reasons of climate, security concerns around the small area the tournament is packed into (which FIFA highlighted in their bid evaluation), some of the more blatant lies in the document (carbon neutral tournament; air con everywhere) and the lack of existing facilities (which seem to still be being built even after things have started).
Japan equaliser,have been much better in the second half….
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
ah but they could have been 3 down so it doesn't count
Wowzer!
This is very true. My barber is a Syrian refugee and he tells me a lot of tales about how racist the other Arab states in the region are. His direct experience was in Jordan but he says his family and friends have had awful racist experiences in many of the other surrounding spots.
It is definitely an interesting counter point. And one i largely agree with. Not that i have been a victim to it but the treatment of employers to immigrant workers - especially those with poor english - is atrocious here. And this is a place where we have strong labour and compensation legislation and systems. The counter to your counter might be just that - - in Canada (not sure about Ireland) it cannot be said to be systemic - - there are protections, there are processes, there are fines and penalties for claims supression, there is healthy workplace injury compensation. The violations are the exception and usually based on indivdual employers vs. at the industry or broader levels. I think that is significantly different from Qatar where, from the interviews that are out there, the state and others are in complete denial that there are ANY deaths at work or ANY abuses of immigrant rights in general.
Japan bloody hell!!
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
Madness!
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