Next LoI player to play for Ireland?

[Schumi]

And indeed, we failed to beat UCD in two times of asking, does that make us worse than UCD? Answer that honestly now

Obviously it makes you equal to us.

[pineapple stu]

Reykjavik aren't part time afaik, and we beat them over two legs which is all that matters.

Ah now - you drew 2-2 and 0-0. This against at best a barely pro team (average gates of c. 2000 in an 18-game league - I honestly don't see how they could be pro, but then you were there and I wasn't). There's a massive jump up from scraping by them and being confident against a Division One team. Players who draw against Icelandic opposition twice aren't much use to us in international football, where actual wins count.

You could make a case for the Hajduk game - or you could argue that that was the once-off. The Depor game was a good performance, but then take into account that they were in pre-season and how poor they turned out to be, etc.

I'm not arguing that maybe Heary doesn't deserve to be in the squad ahead of Maybury or someone like that, but you can't dismiss the Linfield game as a one-off, as it clearly isn't (the performances against Portadown were hardly convincing either). The league here has a long way to go before we can have players in the squad regularly. We're better off concentrating on that and the international call-ups will come when (if) the league reaches the required level.

[Slash/ED]

Ah now - you drew 2-2 and 0-0. This against at best a barely pro team (average gates of c. 2000 in an 18-game league - I honestly don't see how they could be pro, but then you were there and I wasn't). There's a massive jump up from scraping by them and being confident against a Division One team. Players who draw against Icelandic opposition twice aren't much use to us in international football, where actual wins count.

You could make a case for the Hajduk game - or you could argue that that was the once-off. The Depor game was a good performance, but then take into account that they were in pre-season and how poor they turned out to be, etc.

I'm not arguing that maybe Heary doesn't deserve to be in the squad ahead of Maybury or someone like that, but you can't dismiss the Linfield game as a one-off, as it clearly isn't (the performances against Portadown were hardly convincing either). The league here has a long way to go before we can have players in the squad regularly. We're better off concentrating on that and the international call-ups will come when (if) the league reaches the required level.

Well firstly a win is a win, also, you forgot Lille.

My point about Linfield was it's not an accuate sign of our standard, as we've been crap all month. We've lost to other sides in this league we'd consider ourselves better than, it doesn't mean we're now worse than them, just we're woefully out of form. Portadown at home was when the season had barely started, we outplayed them on their own pitch.

[gypsydownunder]

Both those players were definately at Rovers a the time they got capped. Surely Mick Martin left Bohs in the late 60s early 70s.

Mick Martin transfered to Manchester United in 1973. I remember as a kid being devastated. And trying to get the Da to explain why Mick would even consider moving away.

George Best appearing in the game at Dalymount which was part of the deal softened the blow somewhat, but then Gerry Daly left as well and it was the end.

[gypsydownunder]

Odd logic, a one off match, we've lost to some other sides who we'd consider ourselves better than in the last month or so...

I'd fancy Shels chances against some of the bottom teams in that division, but Reading over two legs you'd expect to beat us.

Look there's a few things here.

1. The group of die-hard Eircom League supporters (fair play to you by the way - I served my time at enough wind swept, god forsaken places, with only a Bovril between me and a state of frozen eternity) need to remove the rose tinted glasses. Yes the league is better than it was a decade ago (or appears to be). Yes the facilities are better (marginally). But the rest of the leagues in Europe have also improved. In other words, we haven’t really gained any ground.

2. There have been a few interesting runs recently – Bohemians (esp Aberdeen), Shelbourne (esp Hadjuk), Cork (albeit Inter Toto), but on the whole it’s still ****-weak. We’ve arrived when our 3 teams are regularly winning a round every year. And when our 3 representatives are the real ones competing for the Setanta. FFS Cork lost at home to Portadown, who were at the end of their season, in a game that DID matter, in front of their million passionate fans Zzzzzzzzz.

3. Shelbourne appears to be a well run club. They are certainly the current “force” in the League and perhaps a model for others to follow. Effectively they have the pick of every player they want (signing Crowe, Ryan from their recent closest rivals). But they’re still rubbish. And despite this they haven’t put any daylight between themselves and the rest.

4. I suppose that you could argue that Millwall (a Championship club, which DID play in Europe last season), faired no better than the Eircom League entrants. But this merely demonstrates, equality, at best and certainly not superiority. If you then take into account the “experienced in Europe every year line” then you might argue that Millwall did better (with their first ever european tie).

So in summary, yes the Eircom League is better than it was, but it’s (and the players that play in it) still not great. There’s a long way to go, before I’d be happy to see a home based player pull on a green shirt. And even if/when they do, I’d want the selection on true merit, rather than a bias towards a particular league.

Finally if you think Kerr is only picking players once they move to England, you’re wrong and probably younger than 25.

[mypost]

Are you seriously suggesting overall that Premiership and Division One players are worse than eL players?!

I think that some of them are better than players who play in the Championship. Do you rate David Connolly as international class? I don't. But BK will play him when we're short of strikers, whining that we have "nobody else". So, that attitude rules out Jason Byrne, and Glenn Crowe, and John O'Flynn, three of the best strikers in Ireland. We don't have to rely on Gary Doherty when Keane, Morrison, or even Elliot are not available. We have a number of strikers to call from our domestic league; ready, talented, and willing to show the country what they can do, but the coach won't consider them based on a perception that they play their club football in the wrong country, rather than a lack of individual ability. When Crowe was selected for the Greece game, Alan Lee was upset, claiming that he played at a higher level. He played for lousy Rotherham at the time but sorry, even Bohs are a better side than Rotherham.

[Mayo Red]

I think Owen Heary deserves a shot at the International setup, especially when you consider how low we were on defensive options during the recent qualifiers. He has been the best fullback in the league for a long time now, and was immense during Shels european run last year.

[pineapple stu]

Well firstly a win is a win, also, you forgot Lille.

Lille played youz off the park for 85% of that game and should have been 6-0 up by half-time in Lansdowne alone. If you're going to use that game to suggest you're as good as Lille, then we're as good as you and I want out players in the Ireland squad.

My point about Linfield was it's not an accuate sign of our standard, as we've been crap all month.

Even the worst Division One team would have trouble losing to Linfield, regardless of form. If an IL player gets into the NI squad, it's taken as a sign of how poor the NI team is. Yet we expect eL teams - who only had about a 50% record against the IL overall in the tournament - to get into a much better international team?

I think that some of them are better than players who play in the Championship. Do you rate David Connolly as international class? I don't. But BK will play him when we're short of strikers, whining that we have "nobody else". So, that attitude rules out Jason Byrne, and Glenn Crowe, and John O'Flynn, three of the best strikers in Ireland.

Brian Kerr hasn't played - or selected even - Connolly in months. He mightn't be international class, but by the same token, neither are any of the names you mentioned - and they're further away from the standard than Connolly is. Byrne for one was a flop in Europe - eight games and no goals. Playing against the likes of Finn Harps and Shamrock Rovers also isn't the best way to prepare for an international match, while at least playing against Division One clubs is a much better test on a regular basis.

but the coach won't consider them based on a perception that they play their club football in the wrong country, rather than a lack of individual ability.

I'm afraid that's pure blinkered conspiracy talk. If anyone knows the players in the eL, it's Kerr. If he isn't picking them...maybe - just maybe - they're not good enough...? The simplest explanation is often the right one and all that?

[Slash/ED]

Lille played youz off the park for 85% of that game and should have been 6-0 up by half-time in Lansdowne alone. If you're going to use that game to suggest you're as good as Lille, then we're as good as you and I want out players in the Ireland squad.

I never said we were as good as them

Even the worst Division One team would have trouble losing to Linfield, regardless of form. If an IL player gets into the NI squad, it's taken as a sign of how poor the NI team is. Yet we expect eL teams - who only had about a 50% record against the IL overall in the tournament - to get into a much better international team?

Compare and contrast our teams in Europe v theirs, that's the real judge of standard.

Byrne for one was a flop in Europe

That's simply not the case, he was one of our best players espically away to Deportivo where him and Ndo were head and shoulders above the rest for us, you don't have to score to play well.

If anyone knows the players in the eL, it's Kerr. If he isn't picking them...maybe - just maybe - they're not good enough...?

If he thinks Heary isn't good enough and Maybury is he needs his head examined.

[ColinR]

That's simply not the case, he was one of our best players espically away to Deportivo where him and Ndo were head and shoulders above the rest for us, you don't have to score to play well..

byrne was very poor in the big games. especially the lansdowne games he looked lost at sea, and never looked convincing imo

If he thinks Heary isn't good enough and Maybury is he needs his head examined.

i think you need to take of the rose tinted glasses. heary is good (excellent by eL standards), but by no means is he up to international squad standard. he'll probably never be either, unless he can test himself against a higher level week in week out - which maybury is doing

[gustavo]

i suppose the point is that maybury is no where near international standard either but is good enough to get in our squad sometimes due to our limatations

[Slash/ED]

byrne was very poor in the big games. especially the lansdowne games he looked lost at sea, and never looked convincing imo

Disagree completley. You only have to look at the difference in our performance when he switched from right wing to up front instead of Fitzpatrick, it was like watching a different team. His touch, awareness and holding the ball up was in a different class to Fitzpatrick and we were really on the offensive for the latter stage of that match. It was the same away to Deportivo.

i think you need to take of the rose tinted glasses. heary is good (excellent by eL standards), but by no means is he up to international squad standard. he'll probably never be either, unless he can test himself against a higher level week in week out - which maybury is doing

Maybury can test himself against Ronaldinho every day for all I care, it wont alter the fact he's not upto it. Heary got MOTM against Deportivo, Mayburys embarassed himself for Ireland against far worse teams. Like Gustavo said, I'm not saying Heary is the new Cafu, but we aren't exactly filled with international class full backs. Beyond Finnan, Carr and in the future if he progesses Kelly, Heary is the best we have and deserves his chance.

[joeSoap]

Young Robbie Kelleher playing up front for us will be the next eircom league player capped.. . He's the closest tHing to Wayne Rooney in the league and would score goals for any side he played for...Pure class...HANDS OFF!!!

[ColinR]

think we'll have to disagree slash. heary was rte's mom v deportivo, its only one game, maybury has played champions league group stages, uefa group stages last season, and will be playing championship next year. he is in a better environment because he is a better player. (anyway rte were always going to pick a shels player for mom).

as for byrne watching as a neutral i thought he was very disappointing - he was someone who i would have thought could compete at that level, but never looked up to it (same against lille - infact more so).

its always easy when your a fan to think that your player is better than he is, you know you nearly sound like a cork fan

[Gerrit]

The next LOI player in the national side ? I'd nominate Richey Baker.

[Éanna]

The next LOI player in the national side ? I'd nominate Richey Baker.

You are joking right?

[Slash/ED]

I wouldn't even pick Baker for Shels

heary was rte's mom v deportivo, its only one game, maybury has played champions league group stages, uefa group stages last season, and will be playing championship next year. he is in a better environment because he is a better player. (anyway rte were always going to pick a shels player for mom).

He's playing at a higher level it does NOT mean he's a better player.

[centre mid]

Now dont shoot me for this but...

Is Gareth Farrelly to auld to get a call up

[pineapple stu]

I never said we were as good as them

Why else did you say...

What about Lille?

[Slash/ED]

Why else did you say...

You're talking about one off results being an accurate show of standard, if Linfield are better than us because of the Setanta cup then we're as good as the team who finished second in France. There's no logic to looking at it like that.