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Thread: Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 - Nations League

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 - Nations League

    Watching the Ireland - Wales game here and the pitch at Aviva stadium is in an awful state. Can't imagine it's going to be easy to play on next week.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on twitter and facebook

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    James McCarthy is back for the home game how is the father's illness going on?

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    there's been no report, but it doesn't look likely.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on twitter and facebook

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    I think i dont mind him out of Wales but I want him in Dublinn to lead the team

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    This is an absolutely massive game now for Kenny. The feeling I'm getting this evening is that the support is turning on him already. Everyone knew there would be a transition period, but I guess few thought it would be this bad.

    Kenny's main advantage at the moment is that the FAI are skint and cannot afford anyone else. People point to what happened with Michael O'Neill in NI after a slow start, but there's little to suggest that we're developing something similar here. Also easy for people to fall back on the poor standard of the players we have at the moment (and there's no question - we have a poor squad), but there's still no excuse for the complete lack of cohesion in the team, the apparent lack of a gameplan other than setting up as a 4-3-3 and tapping the ball around with no penetration at all and the ease at which teams just play through us. Throw in Kenny's complete lack of interview skills and lack of achievement outside of the LoI and it's easy to see the whole thing collapsing fairly quickly for him in 2021 now.

    Being honest, Bulgaria are terrible, one of the worst international teams in Europe outside of the microstates. If we fail to beat them a second time, if we fail to score yet again, his position could be untenable by the spring, if the WC qualifiers start as badly as the Autumn has gone.
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Long Cox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Being honest, Bulgaria are terrible, one of the worst international teams in Europe outside of the microstates. If we fail to beat them a second time, if we fail to score yet again, his position could be untenable by the spring, if the WC qualifiers start as badly as the Autumn has gone.
    We don't have any more games until spring.

    I expect we'll squeak past Bulgaria; surely someone has to give us a penalty or something eventually.
    Covid-negative, maybe; I haven't checked.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    BTW, Bulgaria aren't ahead only of the microstates. They're poor, sure, but to compare them to San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc, is unhelpful. They're 41st in Europe, which is bad, but there's a big gap back to Azerbaijan in 42nd and then 13 others.

    For illustration, roughly speaking Wales to Ireland, and Ireland to Bulgaria, and Bulgaria to Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijan to the microstates is all around the same gap.

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    massive match for the manager and his assistants.

    We were the better side again, but couldnt score. A mistake from someone or a share mistake and we are punished.
    It was a foul today by Moore he blocked and hacked both our center defenders

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    There is going to be some pressure cranked up over the next few days before this match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    BTW, Bulgaria aren't ahead only of the microstates. They're poor, sure, but to compare them to San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc, is unhelpful. They're 41st in Europe, which is bad, but there's a big gap back to Azerbaijan in 42nd and then 13 others.

    For illustration, roughly speaking Wales to Ireland, and Ireland to Bulgaria, and Bulgaria to Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijan to the microstates is all around the same gap.
    I think we need to be honest about where they are at. In addition to their four beatings in the Nations League this year they have also been beaten at home by Hungary and, most notably, Belarus.

    They beat Gibraltar in a friendly, but the fact they were even playing Gibraltar in a friendly speaks volumes about where they are at.

    Make no mistake, if we can't beat them at home, having also failed to beat them over in Bulgaria, it will go down as one of our most embarrassing results. Not as bad as Liechtenstein in the 90s or Cyprus under Stan, but probably the next worst of the modern era after that, particularly if we were to lose the game.
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Long Cox

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be embarrassing to lose - we've drawn our last two games in Georgia for example, and lost at home to Belarus in our last pre-Euros friendly - but it would be a bad result for sure. They are on a horrific slide, and it's only 14 months since we beat them at home (with Byrne pulling the strings)

    I think we need to keep in perspective though (once again) that a team with no forwards worth talking about can't expect to beat anyone unfortunately.

    That said, I'd be hopeful here
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 15/11/2020 at 10:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I don't think it would be embarrassing to lose - we've drawn our last two games in Georgia for example, and lost at home to Belarus in our last pre-Euros friendly - but it would be a bad result for sure. They are on a horrific slide, and it's only 14 months since we beat them at home (with Byrne pulling the strings)
    I think a defeat would be embarrassing. A draw would be ok, given that's what we need, but to finish bottom of a group devoid of great teams with just two points would be embarrassing. I think it would be unacceptable to have played Finland, Bulgaria and Wales twice each and only picked up two points. That would have been unimaginable under any of our previous 2-3 managers.

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    I only really half watched tonight's game on a small screen, but it looked like more of the same to the extend that we looked the better team for long spells but lacked cutting edge. That's not a bad thing considering we're almost down to the c or d squad in some positions. Kenny is getting to see a lot of players, judging by reports we were a little more direct at times when it was on so maybe he's adapting the style to suit the players a bit better too.

    Having said that, I do think the win is needed now or it becomes very difficult to stop the naysayers. It would be a bit embarrassing to lose the game and a nil nil won't put anyone's mind at ease. If we have 60% possession we should having at least 20 shots and 8-10 corners, you don't need really need a striker of any kind to nick a goal in that type of scenario, never mind a good one. It will be pretty soul destroying for the players too you'd have to imagine if they blank again.

    There's still plenty of flickers of promise, there's a heap of extenuating circumstances, but sometimes you really do just need to go out and win.

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    We were better than the Welsh, the game was Ireland going on the attack to score that first goal, and the Welsh betting on the counterattack, holding back, and leaving fast.
    We are unable to score goals and yet we put the responsibility on him and make a boy who has a handful of official matches play as a scorer, with all that pressure. We had the chance to make a friendly with someone like Latvia at home, but no, we went to Wembley with joy and did not put up a rebellion.

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    Upon reflection. It's bad. But it's not hopeless.

    I know a lot of people will point to the injuries and Covid withdrawals. That stuff has all happened, but that football. The countries we are playing all have to deal with injuries and they are also going through a pandemic.

    I think the best thing about the situation we find ourselves in is that we have to very basic problems, and just how bad those problems are. We're easy to play against, and we can't score. At the other end we really don't conceed too many. Our defence is operating pretty well. But there can be no doubt about how serious this is. We aren't going to get out of this by slightly tweaking the system.

    The way you see these things getting turned around is a new manager comes in who doesn't know a lot about the players, so he comes up with a simple plan to solve the problem with the personel available to him. But it's possible to come up with a radical and simple plan without sacking anyone

    Being harder to play against is the easier of the 2 to fix. We need to close down the opposition much more. We obviously lack creativity, so forcing out opponents to make make mistakes is the next best thing. Kenny wants to try to play more football, and that's no bad thing, but being able to pass the ball and making it awkward for our opponents to play aren't mutually exclusive ideas. The last time we played in Cardiff we won because Jeff Hendrick forced a mistake and McClean scored from the subsequent attack. We can still do things like that while out of possession, and we should.

    Getting goals is more difficult, but there are things we can do. I don't think there's too much between our strikers. We've invested in Idah, and i see no reason to believe that there's a better option out there for now. He'll get a goal at some point and then things will maybe start to click. The chances of him getting that goal will greatly increase if we get people around him. The idea that what we saw tonight was a 4-3-3 is ludicrous. It was a 4-5-1. Idah was completely isolated

    I think that means playing a second striker. In theory it's supposed to be a 3 now, but it isn't working. Whether that means one of the guys in the squad now starting with Idah, or Shane Long is drafted in I'm fairly philosophical about. The kid needs better help than he's been getting.

    We have a number of fullbacks who are suited to play as wingbacks. That's something I think we should exploit. Stevens is the first choice on the left side, but in his absense i think Manning should get his chance. Having those guys pushing forward should stretch Bulgaria and create spaces for the more central guys to play. I'd like one of those central players to be Jack Byrne. He made a mistake tonight, but we all know what they say about the man who never made a mistake. The kind of player he is purported to be should never really be playing that deep because of the risk of losing the ball in that position.

    What I'm describing could either be a 5-3-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond. I'd like to see us hit a few more crosses, but we could (and I would suggest should) still follow a more posession orientated approach.

    Bulgaria aren't great. despite our troubles we should be able to scofre against them and beat them.
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    Upon reflection. It's bad. But it's not hopeless.

    I know a lot of people will point to the injuries and Covid withdrawals. That stuff has all happened, but that football. The countries we are playing all have to deal with injuries and they are also going through a pandemic.

    I think the best thing about the situation we find ourselves in is that we have to very basic problems, and just how bad those problems are. We're easy to play against, and we can't score. At the other end we really don't conceed too many. Our defence is operating pretty well. But there can be no doubt about how serious this is. We aren't going to get out of this by slightly tweaking the system.

    The way you see these things getting turned around is a new manager comes in who doesn't know a lot about the players, so he comes up with a simple plan to solve the problem with the personel available to him. But it's possible to come up with a radical and simple plan without sacking anyone

    Being harder to play against is the easier of the 2 to fix. We need to close down the opposition much more. We obviously lack creativity, so forcing out opponents to make make mistakes is the next best thing. Kenny wants to try to play more football, and that's no bad thing, but being able to pass the ball and making it awkward for our opponents to play aren't mutually exclusive ideas. The last time we played in Cardiff we won because Jeff Hendrick forced a mistake and McClean scored from the subsequent attack. We can still do things like that while out of possession, and we should.

    Getting goals is more difficult, but there are things we can do. I don't think there's too much between our strikers. We've invested in Idah, and i see no reason to believe that there's a better option out there for now. He'll get a goal at some point and then things will maybe start to click. The chances of him getting that goal will greatly increase if we get people around him. The idea that what we saw tonight was a 4-3-3 is ludicrous. It was a 4-5-1. Idah was completely isolated

    I think that means playing a second striker. In theory it's supposed to be a 3 now, but it isn't working. Whether that means one of the guys in the squad now starting with Idah, or Shane Long is drafted in I'm fairly philosophical about. The kid needs better help than he's been getting.

    We have a number of fullbacks who are suited to play as wingbacks. That's something I think we should exploit. Stevens is the first choice on the left side, but in his absense i think Manning should get his chance. Having those guys pushing forward should stretch Bulgaria and create spaces for the more central guys to play. I'd like one of those central players to be Jack Byrne. He made a mistake tonight, but we all know what they say about the man who never made a mistake. The kind of player he is purported to be should never really be playing that deep because of the risk of losing the ball in that position.

    What I'm describing could either be a 5-3-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond. I'd like to see us hit a few more crosses, but we could (and I would suggest should) still follow a more posession orientated approach.

    Bulgaria aren't great. despite our troubles we should be able to scofre against them and beat them.
    I agree with most of it could be a chance as forward Idah is not ready there , we need to try a seasoned 9, i like Cillian Sheridan in that hassling position , we have Shane Long, Collins , Hogan. Idah and Parrott coming.

    He needs to bring strikers number 9, give everyone a chance to get the role.

    We cannn play 4-3-3 with Long on the right Obafemi or Connolly on the left we need characteristics, the 3 midfielders one of them has to be James McCarthy

    at the back will go with something like coleman----doherty----egan------stevens

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    I hope McCarthy makes it back for this. Hendrick and Molumby are big losses to our midfield. I'd worry that we will select Hourihane who ought to be left out for his last two long and short appearances. Brady, McCarthy and Byrne? Nah, it'll be Brady, McCarthy and Hourihane.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo View Post
    I think a defeat would be embarrassing. A draw would be ok, given that's what we need, but to finish bottom of a group devoid of great teams with just two points would be embarrassing. I think it would be unacceptable to have played Finland, Bulgaria and Wales twice each and only picked up two points. That would have been unimaginable under any of our previous 2-3 managers.
    It would be bad, but ultimately, once again, our forwards are all ****e. Every one of them. We started yesterday with a Norwick reserve, a Wycombe winger, and an experienced player (McClean) who, much as he's a cult icon at this stage, I think his best days are behind him and he hasn't scored in three years.

    Our defence is reasonably solid (one goal against per game, including the England one), our midfield is being tinkered with and options are being found, but you can't polish a turd up front. If we can't score - and this isn't a Kenny thing; this goes back to Mick getting seven goals in eight qualifying games last year, three of which were against Gibraltar, and one of those was an own goal; or Goal of the Year being effectively cancelled in 2018 because we scored four goals in nine games - then we can't complain too much about relegation to the third tier of nations.

    Our squad is weaker than under the last 2-3 managers too. I don't know why you keep leaving this out of your comments, cos it's really important.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Actually, at the risk of sending the forum into meltdown, I'd suggest that what is embarrassing is that this weekend, tens of thousands of Irish fans will be tuning into Burnley v Palace.

    The LoI is one of the most under-funded leagues in Europe. It's one of only a handful of leagues where the clubs get no TV money. It's one of the worst-supported leagues in Europe - because people here would prefer to give their money to Burnley v Palace.

    But every country across Europe uses its domestic league to bring through players for the national team. Our league isn't capable of doing that any more, which is part of the reason why our squad is so weak.

    We made a huge deal about the Euro 2016 squad having 8 ex-LoI players in it. That was actually really crap by international standards and shows just how much we don't understand the connection between domestic league and national squad.

    But those players - Long, McClean, Houlihan, Murphy, Quinn, Coleman, Ward and Meyler - all came through the LoI in the 2000s when there was lots of money in it. Since the country (and the league) went down the pan in 2008-2010, the league has produced far fewer players, and those have been of a lower standard (Maguire, Horgan, etc)

    So people not supporting the league => weaker national team => exactly what we're seeing now.

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    Meyler, long and quinn hardly played league of Ireland so it's a massive stretch to say the league developed them it was no different than a lad moving over from st Kevin's or rockmount. I'd say evan ferguson has as many appearances for bohs in competitive senior games than all 3 of them put together and he is barely gone 16. The league did not develop those 3 in senior professional mens football like you are trying to suggest a strong league would

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