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Thread: Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 - Nations League

  1. #21
    First Team livehead1's Avatar
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    Can anyone remember a worse Irish side?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    The league did not develop those 3 in senior professional mens football like you are trying to suggest a strong league would
    Yeah, there's definitely a point there, although they did go more or less straight into their English sides' first teams, which a player from Kevin's or Rockmount wouldn't have done. Though I'm not suggesting the LoI in the 2000s was a strong league; just stronger than now.

    But my point is that what we thought was great - and the 8 LoI players was trumpeted at the time - was really poor, despite it being the best contribution the LoI had made in decades, and even if you want to say it was really only 5 players (which would be a reasonable argument), that point still holds.

    With a properly supported and funded league, more players would be coming through to the national team.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 16/11/2020 at 11:29 AM.

  3. #23
    Coach John83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    Meyler, long and quinn hardly played league of Ireland so it's a massive stretch to say the league developed them it was no different than a lad moving over from st Kevin's or rockmount. I'd say evan ferguson has as many appearances for bohs in competitive senior games than all 3 of them put together and he is barely gone 16. The league did not develop those 3 in senior professional mens football like you are trying to suggest a strong league would

    Fair points, but that's what the league was capable of doing. It's capable of less now. And when Pineapple says the league had loads of money in the 2000s, that's a very, very, relative term.
    Covid-negative, maybe; I haven't checked.

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  5. #24
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    It's not like Irish football fans started watching English (or Scottish) league football yesterday. This isn't a new problem. Irish football had huge crowds in the 50s and 60s, and qualified for nothing.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    The 50s and 60s aren't relevant now though.

    Until the Premier League formed, Irish players would to English clubs and so there was a ready stream going to some of the top clubs in the world.

    But as the PL got richer, it could spread its net first across Europe, and then across the world. Now an Irish player has to really stand out to sign for an English club. And so there's fewer of them making the move.

    So there's less scope for a professional career in England. There's little scope for a professional career in Ireland. Is it any surprise that there's just less professional players available, and that they're less good? Irish football has failed utterly to react to the change of scene brought about by the PL's globalisation. And we're seeing the effect of that now.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 16/11/2020 at 11:59 AM.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post

    Our squad is weaker than under the last 2-3 managers too. I don't know why you keep leaving this out of your comments, cos it's really important.
    It is weaker, but I would argue some of that is counterbalanced by the fact we've not played any truly great teams in Kenny's, with the possible exception of England (which you could argue either way on). Slovakia had a number of viral/injury absences and their best player (Hamsik) had been in limbo in terms of club football. Arguably it's the same with Wales, Ramsey was missing last night and I think Bale is a bit rusty (not the force he was at the last Euros etc) due to his lack of game time in Madrid and him only joining Spurs relatively recently. Even last night they had the second choice keeper playing. Ward is good but Hennessy has been their usual starter. Finland are very well organised and have a tactically sound manager, but I wouldn't say they outclass us player for player. The same is also true of Bulgaria, but probably their manager isn't quite as good.

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  10. #27
    First Team lofty9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livehead1 View Post
    Can anyone remember a worse Irish side?
    Below is the worst I've watched in years. Looking at the team, we need a complete rebuild and patience.

    THU 06 SEPT 2018 NATIONS LEAGUE WALEs 4 Ireland 1

    23 Randolph2 Coleman
    4 Duffy
    5 Clark
    17 Ward Substituted for Stevens at 61'minutes
    3 Christie
    13 Hendrick
    22 Hourihane Substituted for Williams at 56'minutes
    8 O'Dowda
    19 Walters
    14 Robinson Substituted for Horgan at 77'minutes
    As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls

  11. #28
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo View Post
    Slovakia had a number of viral/injury absences and their best player (Hamsik) had been in limbo in terms of club football. Arguably it's the same with Wales, Ramsey was missing last night and I think Bale is a bit rusty (not the force he was at the last Euros etc) due to his lack of game time in Madrid and him only joining Spurs relatively recently. Even last night they had the second choice keeper playing. Ward is good but Hennessy has been their usual starter.
    Again though, why do you mention all this (which is correct) and not reference the fact that we were missing Coleman (one of our only truly decent players), Stevens, McCarthy, Arter, Browne, Robinson and Egan?

    You can't have it both ways.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by livehead1 View Post
    Can anyone remember a worse Irish side?
    I remember friendlies against Jamaica and Nigeria at The Valley, under Kerr. Pretty poor and fringe players that never amounted to much. McGeady got cap tied though.

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    McClean and Doherty both out of the squad after positive covid tests. Kenny has absolutely no luck.
    "I'm just a chilled out entertainer"

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  16. #31
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    Wow...

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    unconfirmed reports that Doherty and McClean are ruled out with covid. (edit: just saw the above after I posted)

    I think Collins did enough in his cameo to earn a start. I would however stick with Idah (fitness permitting) maybe at outside right as he does have pace.

    In any case I expect Kenny will play the strongest / most experienced team he can as we badly need a result.

  18. #33
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Unless others are called up that are not in the squad.

    Randolph
    Christie Duffy Long O'Shea
    Brady Byrne Hourihane
    Curtis Idah Horgan

    There will be a further 4 enforced changes from yesterday with Hendrick, Moloumby, Doherty and McClean out.

    Bordering on ridiculous now. Might be a case to go 3 at the back - Bring in Clark and play Manning and Christie as wing backs.

  19. #34
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    I'd call up Lee O'Connor at RB and others from U21s now that they have nothing to play for.

    I thought Collins looked more than OK.

    Cullen may get a run now. It'll almost certainly mean Hourihane starts again. I hope not. I'll be v annoyed if he does.


    -------------Keeper
    O'Connor -- O'Shea-- Long --Manning

    ---------Cullen-------
    Knight ----------Brady
    --------Byrne------
    ---Idah --Collins ---

    That's my low conviction starting XI! I can barely even remember who's still in the squad.

    Edit: I had forgotten Duffy was still around. Wishful thinking maybe. And I think Curtis should start. I'll reconsider my selection. I think we should be prepared to lose this one. I don't care if we're in League C. The games will be a better match. I don't want to see Christie and Hourihane if they're not part of the big rebuild.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 16/11/2020 at 2:24 PM.

  20. #35
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    We need a draw.. this is the biggest game Ireland will play in a decade. We have to remain in the B path, and if we do, we can relax and build through the WC qualification, with a view on Germany in 24

  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    Fair points, but that's what the league was capable of doing. It's capable of less now. And when Pineapple says the league had loads of money in the 2000s, that's a very, very, relative term.
    Is it capable of less though? Byrne is first league of Ireland player in donkeys to play competitive international senior football for Ireland. Evan ferguson will move on to Brighton and league of Ireland apologists can say the league of Ireland produced him when he plays for Ireland. If Sinclair Armstrong plays for Ireland will people say the league developed him cause he played for rovers B. Bazuna played for rovers A and will play for Ireland so the league developed him. Lads like Tierney and devoy at bohs will likely head back to England as will Landrieu and have as good a crack at playing for Ireland as Stephen ward ability wise. You would expect someone like zefi to have good chance of Been an international and he has played for rovers B in the league. the league is producing or recycling alot of good young players who have a good chance of progressing in their careers certainly as many as back in the 2000s when lots of clubs had very little youth but lots of mid twenties and older pros who could make more money in the league here than league one or 2. I think less money means clubs invest now in youth rather than over paying lads I their mid 20s who will never play international

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  23. #37
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Yes, it's currently capable of less.

    You're counting an awful lot of players in there who've achieved nothing yet. You could have made the same argument for Hoban, McEleney, McMillan, Clarke and Burke a couple of years ago, yet they're all back in the LoI now.

    Let's stick to the key measure - capped internationals. The LoI is producing less these days. And we've generally got a lower standard of player (after all, you have to cap someone). These two things are hitting the national team quite badly now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by livehead1 View Post
    Can anyone remember a worse Irish side?


    After beating the Czechs in Prague in November 1967, the next win didn't come until June 1972 against Iran.
    I can remember the Iran win, in Recife, Brazil.
    ...Schwanholz, Herisau: a little bit of heaven...

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  26. #39
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    If we have any more cases of covid we could have a few more LOI players getting caps this week.

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    Randolph
    oshea
    duffy
    long
    manning
    hourihane
    cullen
    brady
    horgan
    collins
    odowda

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