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Thread: 2021 Season , Arrivals and departures

  1. #701
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Everybody needs the money, with the possible exception of Dundalk but even then you need to operate with some restraint. Realistically, we probably knew he was going so the McCann signing makes more sense now. Not a replacement by any means given his age but he will be a good player for a year or two hopefully and let us build again.

    It looks like Hearts will walk the Scottish second tier this year so in six months he will be in the top league there, so good move for him. Can't begrudge him taking a bigger opportunity than we can offer in this country. Just a shame the Scottish Championship is a bigger deal than our league.
    Charlie whos the McCann bloke that signed for ye? Is this Chris McCann or am I thinking of someone else??
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    International Prospect sadloserkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    Charlie whos the McCann bloke that signed for ye? Is this Chris McCann or am I thinking of someone else??
    It is Chris McCann. I remembered him as being a really good prospect there so I just went and had a look through his Wiki. He played 231 league games for Burnley in the Championship (and another 7 in the Premier League). You'd have thought he wasn't far from an Ireland cap at some stage but he never even got U-21 caps and only played once for the U-19s.
    The ball is round and has many surprises.

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  4. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Ah that's not true. The LoI has to aspire to being a selling league, and it's not been that for about a decade now. Rovers get -

    > 200k
    > Added profile in Ireland as a club to join if you have ambitions to move abroad
    > Added profile in Britain if McEneff does well. That's where the LoI has fallen down badly in the past few years and it's led to lower transfer fees. But get a reputation as a club where there's decent players to be had, and transfer prices will go up.

    That's the game Rovers are in, ultimately.
    I disagree with all of this. Firstly, 200k does not replace McEneff and continues the trend of UK clubs underpaying for LOI talent. The European situation this year is a massive opportunity for Rovers to take a step forward, and losing McEneff at this stage with very limited opportunities to try to replace him, and in addition to losing Byrne already, is a massive blow to that squad.

    In relation to your second point, Rovers don't need a boost there. We already attracted Farrugia and Scales ahead of Dundalk and both of them clearly want to try their luck in the UK soon.

    With regards to reputation in the UK, players doing well will attract more eyes and make it even more difficult to keep hold of players. I really don't see that exerting much upward pressure on transfer fees. The only way we can really prevent players being picked off for peanuts is to improve the material situation of the clubs here. Rovers are in a situation now where the conditions exist in terms of infrastructure, commercial potential, the academy, and backroom staff to really push the club on to another level. Yeah, regardless of how successful that is it will always involve the best players moving on, but clubs in smaller nations who are 'in that game' get compensated appropriately. We should be losing our best players for 7 figure sums, not the odd 100k.

    There's no positive spin to losing McEneff when we did, to where we did, for the money they paid.
    Last edited by Sonny; 03/02/2021 at 12:10 PM.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Of course €200k will replace McEneff. How much did ye pay for him in the first place?

    I don't agree LoI clubs are being underpaid for players. Far too many are going over to England or Scotland, failing to make any impact, and coming back home again. Burke, Bolger, McMillan, Hoban, Boyle and others in the past few years have been high-profile flops off the top of my head. There's been very few in the past decade or so who've justified a decent transfer fee. Why would you pay €200k for someone who, history shows, it likely to be released on a free two years and a handful of senior appearances later?

    The Rovers signings of Farrugia and Scales are in the past. You can't keep still like that in business; that's how you start to fall behind others.

    If McEneff bucks the trend and justifies his €200k price tag, then there's a case to demand more the next time. That's exactly what happened in the 2000s when (with a largely full-time league) LoI transfer fees starting increasing after the likes of Hoolahan, Coleman, Sammon, etc, proved to be successes.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 03/02/2021 at 1:19 PM.

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    Ethan Boyle signed back at Harps.

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    Pats have signed goalkeeper Vitezslav Jaros on loan from Liverpool. He was on the bench for three of their champions league games this season and is supposedly highly rated. Fingers crossed he does the business.

    Gerardo Bruna who was with Derry has signed for Shels. Must be the most expensive first division squad assembled since Limerick's overkill squad that won the first division in 2016

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    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    Pats have signed goalkeeper Vitezslav Jaros on loan from Liverpool. He was on the bench for three of their champions league games this season and is supposedly highly rated. Fingers crossed he does the business.

    Gerardo Bruna who was with Derry has signed for Shels. Must be the most expensive first division squad assembled since Limerick's overkill squad that won the first division in 2016

    That's an excellent signing for Pats.

  10. #709
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    I disagree with all of this. Firstly, 200k does not replace McEneff and continues the trend of UK clubs underpaying for LOI talent. The European situation this year is a massive opportunity for Rovers to take a step forward, and losing McEneff at this stage with very limited opportunities to try to replace him, and in addition to losing Byrne already, is a massive blow to that squad.

    In relation to your second point, Rovers don't need a boost there. We already attracted Farrugia and Scales ahead of Dundalk and both of them clearly want to try their luck in the UK soon.

    With regards to reputation in the UK, players doing well will attract more eyes and make it even more difficult to keep hold of players. I really don't see that exerting much upward pressure on transfer fees. The only way we can really prevent players being picked off for peanuts is to improve the material situation of the clubs here. Rovers are in a situation now where the conditions exist in terms of infrastructure, commercial potential, the academy, and backroom staff to really push the club on to another level. Yeah, regardless of how successful that is it will always involve the best players moving on, but clubs in smaller nations who are 'in that game' get compensated appropriately. We should be losing our best players for 7 figure sums, not the odd 100k.

    There's no positive spin to losing McEneff when we did, to where we did, for the money they paid.
    Currently there is nothing that is of any significant advantage to Rovers at face value bar 200k. It could be an expensive 200k if it damages the ability to win the league and/or progress in Europe. But I dont think you can totally dismiss what Stu is saying. Its not a level playing field for all clubs but for Dundalk and Rovers as the main examples, they have the ability to hold out for better transfer fees and possibly more importantly to be able to wait for when add-on clauses are activated - we saw such an example for Bohs recently. If anything it's a neutral situation for now as a lot depends on McEniff and others to make their mark and indicate that LoI is a viable market for players. Currently the sort of money involved at any level of the game here in terms of transfers out, means that clubs abroad can take a gamble, practically risk free and that is the issue for us as a league. A lot also depends on the player themselves, if a LoI club blocks a move then it can cause significant disruption in a squad, so maybe losses are cut, and calculated if there is a squad that can cope - remain competitive with potential cover already on the books . Nobody as fans and managers want player drain but clubs and the owners differ and it is the sporting business model that is actively encouraged. FG said in an interview (that was quite tetchy) that players signed have sell on value. While I hope this turns out to be the case as we get the benefit of that players contributions until they are noticed and in demand and that is something we would have to suck up

    I was starting to think that a corner was being turned in keeping players, getting players to return if things dont work out, long term contracts helping to facilitate significant fees for in contract players but maybe even at the so called 'wealthy' clubs there currently needs to be some pragmatic approach. Not all can be blamed on the current pandemic but it undoubtedly is going to have lower tiered UK clubs come sniffing for bargains due to their own financial constraints. Nobody would be surprised by a LoI club taking 200k right now with the exception really of Rovers and Dundalk. That Rovers sanctioned this deal is either down to the players demands, income being income, or it creates questions on what is actually motivating the money folk at Rovers. The relatively low fee involved for a key player should and has caused some head scratching and questions to be asked and it would be the same for Dundalk, not for eg for St Pats (with all due respect).

    Its all well and good for Rovers to have their house in order to keep players content and by extension needing genuine value for money offered/accepted to entice a transfer. But if everyone else still have archaic grounds and not have good average attendances than, giving season long contrcts (which will suit some players and negatively, maybe artificially, impact on market values), well its going to be hard to push the player to stick until the club gets a fair wedge. Progress in Europe, pretty consistently by all who qualify, and of course the possibility of being called up to represent respective countries all need to fall in to place before premium transfer fees will be on the table. We often say a rising tide raises all boats but in some circumstances there is only the strength of weak(est) links.

    This is far from a new topic and what Ive said is stating the obvious nowt new and has certainly been discussed before. But the way this particular transfer has happened, pretty much out of the blue so it'd not be a surprise of it turns out to be a much better deal for Rovers u due course than the initial 200k would suggest. While there was a bit of slagging over Cork selling their sell on clauses to get a 2020 license, it was the start of a process that could well sav the club and to kick on from the well intended limitations of the fan owned model and hopefully a better hybrid job. So ye never know what the longer term benefits of any player sale may have.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/02/2021 at 2:51 PM.

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    Pats have signed goalkeeper Vitezslav Jaros on loan from Liverpool. He was on the bench for three of their champions league games this season and is supposedly highly rated. Fingers crossed he does the business.

    Gerardo Bruna who was with Derry has signed for Shels. Must be the most expensive first division squad assembled since Limerick's overkill squad that won the first division in 2016
    Shels are past masters of assembling expensive squads - with a different manager ye'd have to wonder whether the 2020 side would have stayed up and irrespective of their 2021 squad can the maximum be gotten under Morris. Laudable to stick with a young manager and build/rebuild but maybe this is the sort of time that an experienced head is a better option while spending a bit less on the squad.

    I hope that Dundalk's new keeper lives up to the hype if there was the chance of a stopgap loanee like Jaros. Dont recall too much of Bruna tbh but then with BCD football ye dont get the chance to see others squads to get a real handle on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I was starting to think that a corner was being turned in keeping players, getting players to return if things dont work out, long term contracts helping to facilitate significant fees for in contract players but maybe even at the so called 'wealthy' clubs there currently needs to be some pragmatic approach. Not all can be blamed on the current pandemic but it undoubtedly is going to have lower tiered UK clubs come sniffing for bargains due to their own financial constraints. Nobody would be surprised by a LoI club taking 200k right now with the exception really of Rovers and Dundalk. That Rovers sanctioned this deal is either down to the players demands, income being income, or it creates questions on what is actually motivating the money folk at Rovers. The relatively low fee involved for a key player should and has caused some head scratching and questions to be asked and it would be the same for Dundalk, not for eg for St Pats (with all due respect).
    I'm not questioning the decision to let him leave necessarily. By all accounts he really fancied the opportunity, and although I don't think we are getting any value in the money paid, I think standing in his way in this situation would be counterproductive in the larger picture. Convincing your better players to sign contract extensions is difficult enough, and keeping McEneff against his will in this case would probably lead to more players running down deals and leaving for nothing in the future. Everything that I'm saying is aspirational, and I completely accept that we are not in a good position to retain our best players as it stands.

    Of course €200k will replace McEneff. How much did ye pay for him in the first place?
    200k in Rovers' pocket at the moment absolutely will not replace Aaron McEneff. He has made massive strides in the last couple of years and was one of the most important players in that side and hands down the best 8 in the league. The UK and Euro transfer windows are closed, and even if they weren't we aren't operating at the level where we can attract players who will command that sort of fee in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Laudable to stick with a young manager and build/rebuild but maybe this is the sort of time that an experienced head is a better option while spending a bit less on the squad.

    Dont recall too much of Bruna tbh but then with BCD football ye dont get the chance to see others squads to get a real handle on them.
    Morris signing a 3 year contract in early 2020 I’m sure made it a lot easier for them to stick with him in the first division rather than pay him off with so long left on it

    Bruna was actually with Derry for 2 years. Looked a tidy player on the ball any time I saw him. He scored a cracking free kick against Pats in Richmond in 2019 but having just looked up his stats, that was his only league goal for the club in 34 appearances over the 2 seasons

  14. #713
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    200k in Rovers' pocket at the moment absolutely will not replace Aaron McEneff. He has made massive strides in the last couple of years and was one of the most important players in that side and hands down the best 8 in the league. The UK and Euro transfer windows are closed, and even if they weren't we aren't operating at the level where we can attract players who will command that sort of fee in the first place.
    But you don't need to attract players who can command that sort of fee.

    How much did ye pay to sign McEneff? (Or O'Neill, Scales or Farrugia for that matter) I would say it was a lot less than €200k (it was probably nothing, in fact), and he didn't come from the UK or Europe (Derry jokes taken as read)

    The point is that a club like Rovers has to be prepared to grow to a position where they can expect to lose their top player (or players) each year. You prepare for that by already having his replacement signed. And in fairness, Rovers have been quite good at building up not only a decent squad but a strong academy.

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    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
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    i have a feeling the McEneff transfer was coming, i thought we were well covered in midfield (watts in particular deserves more game time and also had Ronan Finn playing wingback) so signing McCann, Mandriou and Gannon didnt make sense for me.
    With Gannon slotting in at wingback that leaves Finn/Watts/McCann/Farrugia/Mandriou/O Neill as well as two Academy lads Nugent and Murphy for 3 midfield spots assuming we are playing 5 3 1 1 like last season.
    Dont get me wrong id rather McEneff stayed but if there are decent sell ons and he wanted to go its probably the right call, he could leave for free in Nov and sign terms in July.

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    Conor Davis has signed for Longford. Only 22, but didn't play last season due to injury.
    Yo no soy marinero. Soy capitan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    But you don't need to attract players who can command that sort of fee.

    How much did ye pay to sign McEneff? (Or O'Neill, Scales or Farrugia for that matter) I would say it was a lot less than €200k (it was probably nothing, in fact), and he didn't come from the UK or Europe (Derry jokes taken as read)

    The point is that a club like Rovers has to be prepared to grow to a position where they can expect to lose their top player (or players) each year. You prepare for that by already having his replacement signed. And in fairness, Rovers have been quite good at building up not only a decent squad but a strong academy.
    I think we're speaking at cross-purposes at this point, but I still fundamentally disagree that Rovers can take positives from this particular situation.

    McEneff was out of contract when he signed for Rovers; he signed as a talented young player with a reputation for inconsistency, and has left as one of the most consistent performers in the league and the best number 8 in the country. I've accepted multiple times that Rovers are always going to have to deal with the best players moving on, and yeah that will involve constant succession planning. In fairness, McPhail and Bradley have handled that very well thus far.

    But in this case the bid came relatively out of the blue on the final day of the UK transfer window, and the club were basically in the position where they couldn't turn it down, despite the fact that the money is meh at best. There is an extra 200k in the bank, but now a massive, unanticipated hole in the squad with little time or obvious candidates to fill it before the start of the season. On top of that it's in an area of the pitch where we have just lost the best overall player in the league. The vast majority of business has been done in Ireland and the UK and European windows are closed. Where is the replacement coming from right now? There isn't a player of McEneff's calibre in his position in the league, let alone one that is available or could be made available. Barring a major stroke of luck, the hole is not going to be adequately filled.

    And this is my entire point. This particular deal as it unfolded is ****ing **** for Rovers, and any minor upsides are vastly outweighed by the loss of the player ahead of a very important season.


    i have a feeling the McEneff transfer was coming,
    Well the club absolutely did not. By all accounts this was a late bid and even the players didn't have a sniff that McEneff might be on the move. That's Greg Bolger, McEneff and Byrne gone with only McCann (an opportunistic, somewhat hopeful punt based on his recent injury record) and Mandroiu coming in to those positions. There is absolutely no way this was planned.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    But the point is you can be annoyed that a top player has gone, but it's really really short-term stuff to think there's no positives whatsoever from the transfer. The transfer window opens again in the summer, so even that's hardly the end of the world. And €200k (in covid time) reflects the fact that McEneff is a gamble given how Burke and Bolger fared (ie they were sent back home again within 12 months)

    That's the reality of it ultimately

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    But the point is you can be annoyed that a top player has gone, but it's really really short-term stuff to think there's no positives whatsoever from the transfer. The transfer window opens again in the summer, so even that's hardly the end of the world. And €200k (in covid time) reflects the fact that McEneff is a gamble given how Burke and Bolger fared (ie they were sent back home again within 12 months)
    Comparing Bolger and Burke to this is apples and oranges. Bolger was a kid signed for Cardiff's academy, and Burkey went to a much higher level than Hearts to a league he just lacks the physical attributes to excel in. He's back here for family and lifestyle reasons, and could easily still be in England if he wanted to be. Had he gone to the level McEneff has he would have undoubtedly been a success. You could just as easily have pointed to Trevor Clarke who is coming back from injury and getting minutes in the Championship, or Big Gav who is starting week in week out in League 1, or Jamie McGrath who is flying in the Scottish Prem.

    Of course Hearts are assuming risk signing him; that's how football transfers work. But at 200k I'm absolutely certain they have nabbed a bargain and McEneff will succeed over there. And as a Rovers fan, I accept they there was no option but to sell in the circumstances, but I don't accept it's a good deal for us. I don't think that's short-term thinking at all; this season is absolutely vital to build upon last year and take advantage of the opportunity the new Euro competition offers. That's part of a long-term process of building the club to the point that we aren't getting fleeced by Hearts. Losing McEneff in these circumstances, especially after losing Byrne, is a major blow to that. I don't think there's too much left to say really as we're already going in circles.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    He's back here for family and lifestyle reasons, and could easily still be in England if he wanted to be.
    Ah, I've heard that one before...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Ah, I've heard that one before...
    I’ll be kind and say clueless

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