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Thread: 2021 Season , Arrivals and departures

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    Reserves bohsmug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    I posted it in jest more than anything but I was going by number of trophies won (8 for Pats) as opposed to runners up etc
    So to be clear; You're counting Leinster Senior Cups and Presidents Cups as a trophy for Pats but are either discounting Presidents Cups or Munster Senior Cups for Cork

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  3. #522
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    In a momenet of lockdown boredom I once thought of something along these lines of compiling an all time table of sucesss in the LOI. Maybe it has been done before?

    But just out of curiousity, what would be a fair weighting per achievement, 5 points for League title, 3 for FAI Cup, 2 for League runners up, 1 for League Cup, 1 for League runners up, 1 for Setanta / latest All Ireland?
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Add 2 for a Collingwood and we're sorted.

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  6. #524
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Hes wrong no matter what way you look at it. I'm assuming the Decade in question was from 2010 to 2019? It doesn't change much if you count it as 2011 to 2020 but I'm going with the former.

    If you want to talk just about the league and average position/points then I'd be confident City would finish second. If you look just at Trophies its comes down to what trophies you consider but its not Pats no matter how you look at it.


    • Dundalk won 5 titles, 2 FAI Cups, 3 League Cups, 2 Presidents Cups, 1 Leinster Senior Cup. 13 Trophies total, 10 would be considered "major". Not sure how to categorise the League Cup as its not as big as deal as the League and Cup, but its significantly more important than the others.
    • Cork City won 1 title, 2 FAI Cups, 3 Presidents Cups, 3 Munster Senior Cups and the First Division. We missed out on the League Cup to complete the set. 10 Trophies total, though obviously not all equal. 3 "Major" trophies, I'd argue the First Division is of a higher level of importance than the Presidents Cup and MSC, but not on the level of the League and Cup. Maybe similar to the League Cup, or maybe slightly behind.
    • Shamrock Rovers won 2 titles, 1 FAI Cup, 1 League Cup, 2 Setanta Cups and 2 Leinster Senior Cups. 8 Trophies total, and probably weighted towards more important trophies than ours. 4 or 6 "Major" Trophies, depending on how you feel about the Setanta Cup. Personally I was a big fan, and Billy Dennehys stoppage time goal to beat us in the Cross on away goals in 2013 stung.
    • Pats won 1 title, 1 FAI Cup, 2 League Cups, 1 Presidents Cup and 3 LSCs. 4 Major Trophies, 8 total. Both more and less than Cork City all at once. But clearly less than Rovers.
    • Sligo won 1 title, 3 FAI Cups, 1 Setanta Cup. 4 or 5 major trophies.You'd have to put them ahead of Pats when you consider major trophies, though Pats have them beat on total.
    • Derry City won 1 FAI Cup, 2 League Cups, 1 First Division.


    So going by "total" Trophies Pats are 3rd behind Dundalk and City.
    If we only count Major trophies (including the Setanta Cup) then Pats are 4th behind Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers and Sligo Rovers.
    If we exclude the Setanta Cup Pats are joint 2nd behind Dundalk with both Rovers, but a clear third when you consider the quality of trophies won.

    Interestingly if you take average league finish Rovers were the best team between 2010 and 2019 with an average finish of 3.00. Dundalk finished 1st or 2nd 7 times but they also finished 6th, 7th and 11th which brings their average to 3.30. Citys average is 3.63 if you exclude the two season in the first division thanks to two 6th place finishes and a 9th, it drops to 5.10 if you give us 11th for our two first division seasons outside a 10 team Premier or 5.6 if you give us 11th and 16th (we finished 1st and 6th in the First Division.
    By average league finish Pats are either 4th behind Rovers, Dundalk and City, or 3rd behind Rovers and Dundalk depending on how you deal with the two seasons City weren't in the Premier Division.
    Last edited by El-Pietro; 18/01/2021 at 3:41 PM.

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  8. #525
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Harps have held the Irish News Cup since 1999. At 3 points a year that's like 2000 points.
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

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  10. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohsmug View Post
    So to be clear; You're counting Leinster Senior Cups and Presidents Cups as a trophy for Pats but are either discounting Presidents Cups or Munster Senior Cups for Cork
    Yes absolutely, the Munster Senior Cup is entirely inferior in every way to the Leinster Senior Cup which is the oldest and most prestigious in the country and should be treated as such

    Nah totally forgot it existed while counting to be honest haha

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    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    Yes absolutely, the Munster Senior Cup is entirely inferior in every way to the Leinster Senior Cup which is the oldest and most prestigious in the country and should be treated as such

    Nah totally forgot it existed while counting to be honest haha
    While the LSC predates the MSC, the MSC has been going since 1922 completely unbroken and since 1901 with a gap during WWI and the War of Independence. We even managed to get a final in this year. It is my favourite trophy from an aesthetic point of view and was won by Royal Engineers in 1903 who also won the FA Cup in 1875.
    Meanwhile the LSC took a break between 2000 and 2010, and abandoned their season in 2020 (perfectly reasonable given the circumstances) so while I realise your comment was a joke I don't think its fair to besmirch the Munster Senior Cup. It might not be the most prestigious competition in the world, but it has plenty of history.

  12. #528
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    Harps have held the Irish News Cup since 1999. At 3 points a year that's like 2000 points.
    Still the reigning First Division cup champions too.
    https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.

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  14. #529
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Actually, UCD still have the Super Cup. (I'm presuming that is a different trophy to the President's Cup)

    Wiki tells me Home Farm/Everton have the First Division Shield, although surely Harps' First Division Cup is the same thing? (Let's ignore Longford advertising 2020 Shield games on their website )

    Any other obscure trophies still floating? The Dublin City Cup or the Top Four?

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    Reserves bohsmug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    In a momenet of lockdown boredom I once thought of something along these lines of compiling an all time table of sucesss in the LOI. Maybe it has been done before?

    But just out of curiousity, what would be a fair weighting per achievement, 5 points for League title, 3 for FAI Cup, 2 for League runners up, 1 for League Cup, 1 for League runners up, 1 for Setanta / latest All Ireland?
    Double the points for league title and it would be more or less in line with my view. The Cup is great but the league title makes you the champions.

  16. #531
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Still the reigning First Division cup champions too.
    In that case...

    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

  17. #532
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohsmug View Post
    Double the points for league title and it would be more or less in line with my view. The Cup is great but the league title makes you the champions.
    Ok so how about this then, 6 points for League title, 3 for FAI Cup, 2 for League runners up, 1 for League Cup / 1 for FD / 1 for Setanta / latest All Ireland. I'm not sure you give 'points' for rating purposes for FAI cup finalists?

    Going by EL P's post, for the period 2010-2019 (if 2020 starts this decade) is the final list then 1/ Dundalk 2/ Cork City /3 Pats ?
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

  18. #533
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    Former UCD man Simon Power has left Norwich and signed for Harrogate Town in League Two on a permanent basis

  19. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract View Post
    Former UCD man Simon Power has left Norwich and signed for Harrogate Town in League Two on a permanent basis
    https://www.the42.ie/simon-power-har...28303-Jan2021/

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    Quote Originally Posted by GerByrne001 View Post
    ", Bohs to their credit are a hard working team which doesn't accommodate a luxury player which is how i see Heary."

    We accommodated Mandriou for a season where he won YPOTY, and you can't really get more luxurious than that. Also, a team that often had Grant and Twardek as out and out wingers and also gave plenty of game time to Ward, Devoy and Tierney, can hardly be considered just workmanlike..

    Will be very interested to see how Mandriou gels with McEneff and Burke, who'll both consider themselves the main man now Byrne has gone. Personally I feel a combination of Jack Byrnes class, Dundalks lack of form/effort and a ridiculously short season, covered up a lot of cracks with Rovers, particularly not having a decent striker and having Joey O'Brien at the back. Think it will be a much more interesting season this year.
    Wouldn't have disagreed with much there (maybe the short season...we were miles ahead and wouldn't have been caught imop) but....are you honestly suggesting two of rovers best players are their weak links?

    Mandriou will gel or not gel. He's not at rovers as a guaranteed starter so will either buy in or be gone. Bradley thinks he can add effort to his undoubted talent so we shall see. I personally didn't rate him and wasn't surprised bohs went up a level when he was dropped. But he's young. Reminds me a bit of Burke when he first arrived at Rovers. Bad temper, bad attitude but bags of ability. He polished up well so there's a chance for mandriou too.

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    In an effort to simplify the trophy allocation for everyone to understand it more clearly,it reads as follows.
    Rovers.
    Everyone else.

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    I'd like to dedicate the above wind up to the memory of the late, lamented Ezekial. 😉.
    It's what he was he excelled at.

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  24. #538
    Reserves Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    Are you forgetting the unfortuntely named 'Unite the Union' Champions Cup, which Dundalk won by beating Linfield in 2019?

    For the lesser known trophies....ADundalk play Drogheda in the annual 'Malone Cup' (or better known as the Elite All Louth Premier Championship by me). Dundalk certainly counts the cup, as seen in the number of medals players won when leaving the club. Dundalk won the decade 5-3 (Drogheda won twice on pens), with two games postponed.

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    Bray have signed Brandon Kavanagh on loan from rovers. Could be an indicator that Rovers II won’t be in the first division this year given he was the main player for that team

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D24Saint View Post
    I resent that comment
    That made me lol again! Retirement home for players or graveyard of ambition - the barstooler view of LoI never mind St Pats at the moment.

    As for weighting of trophies, I think St Pat's cup win deserves to be extra weighted for all the years of dread the cup inflicted on Pats fans! I still think SO'D will work out as a manager at Inchicore if patience is shown ala Bradley at Rovers.

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