Points taken, and mostly agreed upon. I never once indicated in any post that we deserved to get anything out of this game, but was merely trying to make people see that it wasn't entirely Jamie Nolans fault, as there was ample opportunity to clear the ball after he gave it away, and that we also had several decent chances(don't tell me that Darren Youngs header was a harder chance than Bryan Donnellans). Yes, Nolans mistake led to the chance and was didastrous, but surely you could see that we had half cleared the danger afterwards, and then Steven failed to jump with Sandvliet for the header.Originally Posted by Nempton
Robbie had to be taken off...he spent the previous 5 mins charging around like a bull in a china shop and was defo going to pick up at least a yellow. The frustration of the evening probably got to him. As for Steven, well one of the back four had to be taken off, and he was the unlucky one, as his replacement can play up and down that wing.Maybe Jamie should have been taken off. Those calls are for the management who will live or die by the decisions they make at the end of the season. What amuses me to an extent is the way that Jamie Nolan now becomes the target simply because Colin O'Brien is starting to get it together.Noels always going to be criticised, no matter what decisions he makes, and is strong willed enough to stick to his guns on what he sees to be the right thing in team selection. Thats what he gets paid for.
Theres a lot of kudos to be gained it seems from managing a team of no ambition, no hope, and no preparation compared to an ambitious team, with a decent structure and management that is getting good results and going places.
Long may ye bemoan success.
Nempton:
Great post. All angles covered.
Gael 353:
Without a doubt I think that a meeting should be called to iron out these problems (and the many more that haven't yet been posted here yet) before they fester. The last thing we want is to cultivate another era of distrust and bad feeling between the club and everyone else. Things have gone relatively well to date. A problem has arisen - lets deal with it.
"Anyone who's Soapy should be flushed and anyone who's a Deserter should be shot."
- John Purcell (Limerick FC Commercial Manager), February 2004
Lads, I don't know what the rumours are, except the general comments here. I wasn't at the game but was hardly surprised by the result. I am a bit surprised at the comments coming from within the club to supporters.
Obviously NOC is unpopular with some players. He is unpopular with some supporters too. I have been stunned at some of his decisions and downright disagree with his selections and substitutions. However, I don't know what goes on at training sessions. I don't know what he and Aidan Ryan talk about on the line. I presume he makes the decisions he makes in the interests of the team and club and in the heel of the hunt my opinion on team selection etc is irrelevant.
The squad is large. Too large to keep all players happy. If I was Hartnett, Hughes, Ahearne, Cosgrave, Lynch etc I would be browned off at kicking my heels. But there just isn't opportunity to give every player a game. And IMO consistency is team selection is important (and especially you don't change a winning team).
I don't know what a meeting between the SC and the club is intended to achieve. We are on an excellent run of results. Is it possible that some players disillusioned with the lack of first team opportunities are bad-mouthing NOC and the set-up? We are not hearing NOC's side of things and I am taking these comments (which are obviously coming from players) with a grain of salt - although I do not doubt for a second the bona fides of the lads here discussing them.This is kind of forum where these things should be discussed etc. But the SC and supporters can't be invovled in team selection or problems with training etc. That is the management's sole reponsibility. If we, as fans, don't like we can complain but can't have a say in how it should be done. If the club was at the bottom of the league we can call for the manager's head (as I'm sure we would) but given we are going well, if there was a meeting on this the manager would rightly say - I am two points from the top of the league how can you have a problem.
Are we worrying about something that is not a problem? IS it that the players popular with the fans are the ones losing out?
I don't have answers and I am not saying there are no problems. But are we getting things out of perspective. It was Drogheda we lost to.
"It's impossible to make a man understand something when his livelihood depends on him not understanding" Upton Sinclair
I think you hit the nail on the head there Dec...well said.
just to add a point, i really feel that the true supporters of limerick are been left in the dark at the moment. there is an awful lot happening inside that club that none of the supporting committee is aware of and i would fully encourage ye to set up more regular meetings with the management as ye are fully entitled to know the score. In my opinion it is an absolute disgrace how players are treated in there, you wouldn't treat a dog on the street with what noc does and says to players. limerick is a great club with such potential in the players and supporters but it is going to be a sorry season if noc is allowed carry on the way he is.
Good post LFC in Exile.
Havent made many Limerick matches this season as work in Dublin but from what i've seen so far this season is unrecognisable to the past few seasons. Even if we had gotten promoted the season we made the playoffs i am pretty sure we wouldnt have survived in the Premier league as things werent right off the field.
But if LFC keep getting the results like they have been getting recently then they will be promoted and even the most optomistic of us werent predicting that at the start of the season.
Was at the Drogheda game and to be fair Limerick didnt let themselves down. Have watched Drogheda a few times this season and on their day they can take most teams in the Premier league apart. They are very well run and have quality players. Lets be honest, how many of the Limerick players would make the Drogheda team. I'm not going to guess a number but it would be very few if any.
But Limerick werent taken apart and the goal came at a bad time. Who knows what would have happened if Donnellan had scored earlier, and in fairness to Donnellan on the night, he was as good as any player on the full time professional side. There is no reason why Limerick cant be as good as Drogheda and better. We have a bigger city and if things keep going the way they have been then there is every chance that in a few years we can challenge any side in the country. Fair play to the lads who vent their fustration on this forum and fair play to the lads who also defend the side because at least ye give a damn about the city's football team. But there is a small group of us and infighting doesnt help. Debate is good but so is uniting behind the team. As long as the debate is kept to this forum and the side is supported no matter what on the Friday night then we will be alot better off. Danny Drew looks like a fairly shrewd character from what i've seen of him and if there is something rotten i'm sure he wont be long sorting it out.
Business as usual
So let me get this straight, you would prefer if the clubs dirty laundry was aired in public, and not only that, but you also think it is a good idea to call in to NOC during business hours and have it out with him there?! I'm sure Noel will be delighted to find out that his PR man is openly inviting hostility to himself and his business. Cop on to yourself.
As you can clearly see (providing those rose tinted glasses are off), I'm not the only one who is aware of these problems. But I suppose we're all wrong and you're right. Nempton is the one that has hit the nail on the head here, he has written everything I have to say on the matter. You should be commending people here for the restraint they're showing, instead of inviting a free-for-all. This forum exists to discuss these type of things, you should know that. And as Deise said, maybe you need to talk to NOC and the players more, cos everybody here except yourself seems to know and sees whats going on?? As I've said already, my main worry is that we are heading down the same old road of infighting and generally being our own worst enemy. Being second in the table won't last long if there's problems in the camp.
BTW, Jamie Nolan has been poor for a while now, and consistantly poor performances = criticism. It's a fact of life in football, so get over it. CP isn't being criticised anymore because he is putting in the effort now, and that's all the fans have ever asked of him to be fair.
I get the feeling here with some people that we could be 10 points clear at the top of the Premier and ye would still find time to whine like babies. I can guarantee you that you don't know the full facts of what goes on in the training/playing side of the club, yet ye're perfectly happy to listen to whatever rumour or conjecture there is flying about simply because of personal dislikes for Noel O'Connor.As I said earlier, he's the one paid to do the job. Don't tell me that he's not doing 10 times better than anyone pedicted, forecasted or would settle for at the start of the season(theres proof of this in earlier threads at the start of the season). He's the one that makes decisions about on-field activities, not you, not me, not anybody else...him!!
We all have our favourites, or friends, that we'd like to see playing. By and large the squad respect his decisions and get on with their jobs...if there was so much 'disunity' and rancour amongst certain players over alleged 'ill treatment' then we woldn't be in the strong position that we are.So, I do urge you to either pm me with the details of these so called mistreatment allegations, or complain directly to Noel as I already said. He certainly doesn't mind speaking to fans about issues, and welcomes a visit. It's not the inconvenience you seem to think it is.
Criticise by all means...just try and keep it constructive, not personal. Everybody has the right to an opinion; especially the manager who must do as he sees fit to get results...or could you do a better job??
Sorry to do this but:
Joesoap: "I can guarantee you that you don't know the full facts of what goes on in the training/playing side of the club, yet ye're perfectly happy to listen to whatever rumour or conjecture there is flying about simply because of personal dislikes for Noel O'Connor."
First af all we should probably put this is it rumour or is it fact thing in order. It is fact. It has come from a number of sourcs within the club who are both anti and pro NOC. It isn't just the haters getting on his back.
Joesoap: "So, I do urge you to either pm me with the details of these so called mistreatment allegations, or complain directly to Noel as I already said. He certainly doesn't mind speaking to fans about issues, and welcomes a visit. It's not the inconvenience you seem to think it is."
I for one am not going to call into NOC in his place of business and air my grievances. It's not the correct place to do that, and to do it there would be the height of ignorance imho. We should have meetings with the club on a regular basis as they promised earlier. We didn't push it initally as things were busy and they needed the time and freedom.
Joe as their PR guy I'm going to hand it to you to communicate our unhappiness with the issues at present and to set up a meeting with them at the earlist possible opportunity so we can end this thread and stop airing dirty laundry in public when it really is unnecessary.
"Anyone who's Soapy should be flushed and anyone who's a Deserter should be shot."
- John Purcell (Limerick FC Commercial Manager), February 2004
Lads,
Might i just add that foot .ie is definitley not the place to be discussing
what goes on in our club,it just shows everybody outside of lmk that there
is hassle in the camp ,if the results start going against us the talk will be
that all of this is because there is unrest in the dressing room and with the
supporters,ok we all think there are certain players that are not in the the team and they should be ,but at the end of the day we have come along way in the last 2 months and like it or not Noc has been the cause of that....
'but at the end of the day we have come along way in the last 2 months and like it or not Noc has been the cause of that....'
Lads with all this talk of NOC, i think everyone is fogetting that at the end of the day, its the players we really have to thank for getting us where we are. Sometimes people forget that players get managers out of holes that they have dug for themselves.
Lest not forget our top scorer was dropped at the start of the season,hardly played for 4 games,put in to midfield to accomadate someone else up front,dropped again before scoring 3 times in 3 games.I will give NOC credit for 'helping' the team get to this position but to suggest he has been the cause is pushing it that bit too far surely..
“I’d always play Pirlo but Trapatoni says his first concern is to avoid losing goals. The truth is that we didn’t know what we were doing out there" Gennaro Gattuso, June 2004.
No, some in the first team as well as those behind the scenes have told us certain things that have occurred. By all accounts it's not rumours. I think everyone here wishes it was because then we could just choose to ignore it. Joe says that we couldn't possibly know what goes on in training and he is correct, but neither does Joe know what exactly goes on at training and he is the PR for the club. Joe goes by what NOC or whoever else tells him and we are going by what people involved in the club has told us. At best NOC should be informed about the unhappiness emerging from all quarters and address the issue.Originally by LFC In Exile
Is it possible that some players disillusioned with the lack of first team opportunities are bad-mouthing NOC and the set-up?
A little bit patronising and hypocritical Joe, I know your frustrated especially since you are responsible for PR and now the focal point for Limerick fans posting here. So far in this thread I haven't seen anything derogative said about NOC, any comment made has been related to him in his post as manager and nothing else. So far people have voiced their opinion and to answer your quote above, we have supported the team and got behind them when they have been bottom of the league and we'll do the same when they are on top. We are not lemmings who follow the club blindly wherever it may lead us. Well I know I'm not certainly fickle and shallow, if I see or hear something that I disagree with I'll voice my opinion whether people like it or not, regardless of 'oddball' management taking us to the top. As LFC In Exile said and it was a post that you agreed with,Originally by Joe Soap
I get the feeling here with some people that we could be 10 points clear at the top of the Premier and ye would still find time to whine like babies...Criticise by all means...just try and keep it constructive, not personal. Everybody has the right to an opinionIf we, as fans, don't like we can complain
Limerick 37, its so shiny and new we dare not take the cover off.
Just to add....
Firstly, I have no personal dislike of Noel O'Connor. I do not know him and have never had any personal dealings with him. I have no problems with his chicken pieces, steaks or pork chops either. Any criticism from me on NOC is based on NOC the football manager and based on fact. Secondly, I do not know any of the Limerick players personally, nor do I socialise with any of them, or ever talk to any of them on a personal level. So I have no 'favourites' or 'friends' that i'd like to see in the team either.
There's no personal stuff coming from me (read the above), and as far as I can see there's none coming from anybody else in this thread either. What's being said here is constructive, because we are commenting on fact. You're just being overly defensive about anything said against NOC, and seem to be taking things said here personally.
Hey, thats what City fans do. Find something else to moan about
[QUOTE=4tothefloor] I have no problems with his chicken pieces, steaks or pork chops either. QUOTE]
fantastic
you have to feel sorry for auld joesoap tho...everyone agreeing with him last season...almost eveyone disagreeing with him now...hes doing a good job with the programme though i's like to see a crossword.
Good job thats not personal then...
then, tell me , where do you get your'reputed facts'?? such as
At the end of the day, he's the manager, and does as he sees fit. Which is what any manager worth his salt will do. He certainly shouldn't be swayed by what we as fans think. And he won't be either. Be as critical of his team selections, results, managerial style as is the right of any fan to do, but no fans have the right to demand meetings to discuss team welfare with any manager.Nor are his training methods, and personal relationships with players anybody elses business but their own. If the results aren't right as a result of his actions, then I could easily understand frustrations, but for Gods sake, we're challenging for promotion far earlier than we should be, and things are a million percent better than they were. I'm really at a loss on this one.....
Last edited by joeSoap; 15/06/2005 at 12:51 PM.
Joesoap:
You're right. They shouldn't complain to NOC - they should go to the PFAI. The fact that there is discrimination towards certain players is grounds for a legal action to be taken.
"Anyone who's Soapy should be flushed and anyone who's a Deserter should be shot."
- John Purcell (Limerick FC Commercial Manager), February 2004
If he(they) feel that this is necessary, then by all means....I fail to see how not pickng players in a large squad is discriminatory.It is the managers right to choose his team on how he sees individuals perform in training and in games, and he obviously has his preferred players....name me a manager that doesn't...just because a token few squad players and fans don't agree with it then that hardly constitutes the human rights abuses I seem to be hearing from some...
With respect, I don't think you are talking about the same topic as the rest of us Joe. The abuse that has been hurled at Limerick players this season has been atrocious and unnecessary, while the Cork boys can do no wrong and can turn up for matches in(or out) whatever state of mind they wish. A serious breach of professionalism by a Cork player was recently met with a "let's not say a word lads" and an immediate re-instatment into the first team. Other Limerick players do their parts better and recieve torrential abuse for it despite good performances and a high level of professionalism.
Add to the fact that MOS and RMM (from last years stooges) were at the gate at the recent Cup game being involved in counting the numbers coming through the gate. Who here remembers Derry? There are a number of issues aside from the poor management decisions that need to be cleared up.
Get answers for us please Joe.
"Anyone who's Soapy should be flushed and anyone who's a Deserter should be shot."
- John Purcell (Limerick FC Commercial Manager), February 2004
With equal respect, matters such as this are, quite frankly, nobodys business except the players and the team management. I'm not a party to what goes on on the training ground, the dressing room or the playing pitch, and I don't want to be either.None of us are, we're fans and while its commendable that concern is shown, its also a little worrying that players are running back to people with these tales, especialy people whom they don't concern.
AFAIK, as this was our first FAI Cup game under the new regime, Danny asked the aforementioned their advice as they had experience of how the gate checking works etc at cup games. Regarding Derry, thats a seperate issue as this was not a home gate for us as the Derry one in question was. No sense in what you're inferring, although I do realise and understand your concern on that one.
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