Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 106

Thread: Treaty United

  1. #81
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,187
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    388
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    405
    Thanked in
    237 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Is it really that important?

    Dublin City was hardly a good name for Irish football either.

    Though I do agree that if they are successful, they will change to Limerick something alright.
    Are you really asking if branding is important ?

  2. #82
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    31,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,216
    Thanked in
    1,968 Posts
    Hmm. I mean, put that way, it's a fair point. But it's not as if all the Limerick names have really done the trick either. (Treaty United could always be worse of course)

  3. #83
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,054
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    891
    Thanked in
    597 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    Treaty United were set up as a sort of lifeboat for people that were involved with Limerick FC before pat stopped paying people

    The coaching staff from underage up to senior was basically copy pasted across from Limerick FC. Some good people, some people I don't know anything about and some people that I wouldn't have in the way personally.

    At board level you've got Con Murray who might suprise me and be good for something but I doubt it, Dave mahedy is knocking around there somewhere which is good as it's a link to ul, a couple of fellas from the trust, various women's football people and a few people that I don't know who they are.

    On the name they originally tried to call themselves Limerick United without checking who owned the name (it was Pat O'Sullivan) so in a panic it was changed to treaty United and they've been putting the word around the place that the reason is pat o sullivan owns the word Limerick. Which is of course complete and utter ****** designed to cover day ones mistake.

    Which isn't a great start we're a half an hour out of Limerick FC and already the arse covering and spoof spreading begins.

    I'm also skeptical enough because of some of the people still involved and the apparent complete lack of anyone with proper money.

    But the first division is crap everyone gets a go at the playoffs and there's enough ex Limerick FC players knocking around the league that should come back for cheap.

    It's going to be Tommy Barrett managing Tommy Barretts team in the first division.

    Vive la revolution!!
    Conn Murray would be an accomplished administrator, a safe pair of hands for league applications. More a general secretary type role if needed on a board. But he is deeply rooted in in the older (though maybe not dead) Senior Public Servant ways of diving for cover, deflection, and some spin added without much thought given that people are not stupid and just accept what they are told by a board. LoI fans are particularly tuned in imo, hope for the best but expect the worst. That Murray has already fallen foul of that tactic?! as you say he may surprise. Maybe Limerick football needs the less eccentric or irrational type to rebuild even if potentially frustratingly slow making progress. Other people involved with Treaty may provide decisiveness and temper the spin.

  4. #84
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,068
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    124
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    79
    Thanked in
    56 Posts
    What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
    Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.

  5. #85
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,054
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    891
    Thanked in
    597 Posts
    Whatever it covers of operating costs, which will differ for clubs, it may not be too long before the various levels of financial impact attendances (rather than support imo as Irish fans are fickle) has on clubs. Not intending to be evasive but a balance I suppose, at minimum realistic budget if relying more on supporters than an owner who can cover losses. Decent available players and decent local players available is an old Dundalk and probably LoI nugget - a team of locals will get more support?! Not that Ive ever seen really in LoI as a winning team gets more support than an average or worse local team.

  6. #86
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,187
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    388
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    405
    Thanked in
    237 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Hmm. I mean, put that way, it's a fair point. But it's not as if all the Limerick names have really done the trick either. (Treaty United could always be worse of course)
    That suggests that Limerick fortunes in the LOI to-date have been dependent to some significant degree on naming, when other issues have been the source of their problems.

    Treaty United would be a terrible name for the only senior football club in Ireland's fifth largest city. That is all.
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 14/11/2020 at 11:19 AM.

  7. #87
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    31,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,216
    Thanked in
    1,968 Posts
    It would be a terrible name, I agree.

    But I'm suggesting the "other issues" you hint at are much bigger factors than the name.

  8. #88
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cork
    Posts
    3,408
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,260
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    608
    Thanked in
    414 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by wonder88 View Post
    What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
    Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.
    In the long-term, fanbase. Even if gates are only ~50%, other revenue streams with the exception of prize money and direct investment by an owner or owners are largely based on a teams captive audience. Sponsors are more likely to want to work with a team with a large supporter base all things being equal. Having decent players locally is an advantage but not having it is not a death-knell. The Galway region has produced a lot of quality players over the years without any success for Galway United. Sporting Fingal never had a huge fan base despite their early success and they had some incredible players in a league of Ireland context who went on to achieve great things throughout the league both domestically and in Europe. Some even went on to have careers outside Ireland. However as soon as funding was withdrawn they vanished.

  9. Thanks From:


  10. #89
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    4,387
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    236
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    641
    Thanked in
    443 Posts
    Murray interview: https://www.extratime.com/articles/2...ue-of-ireland/

    Nothing much to see, mostly boilerplate. He does talk about the name thing, but not sure it'll assuage people.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  11. #90
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,187
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    388
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    405
    Thanked in
    237 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by wonder88 View Post
    What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
    Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.
    The most important thing for any football club at the top levels anywhere is finance. That is what makes or breaks clubs. And unless you have a wealthy owner happy to burn money (though even that never lasts) then the most essential ingredient influencing your finances will be support. Not just in terms of gate money - but also sponsorship, merchandise, volunteer base, attractiveness to players etc. Support is the bedrock of any successful football team, and without it no team will sustain success.

    The standard of players locally will help you at junior and intermediate level, but is broadly irrelevant at a senior level. Because unless you can afford to keep them, those who are any good will invariably join a club who can pay them better. Even if they're technically 'amateurs', and particularly if they're good enough to be semi-pro. That's just the reality of sport.

    With most people in Ireland turning their back on domestic football, support is therefore a percentages game - i.e. only a small percentage of your potential support will turn into actual fans. That is why catchment area/population is absolutely key in football generally, and Irish football in particular. There are a few exceptions - Sligo and Finn Harps in particular. But for every other club, if you're not based in a genuinely large town or city, you will struggle in the game. That's the bottom line.

    The problem we have that underpins the revolving door of clubs in the LOI is three-fold in my opinion :

    1) We have a small population and few genuinely large population centres that don't already have a football team.
    2) Within that, we have very few towns or cities where football is genuinely the number one sport - thereby limiting potential appeal further.
    3) We have a tendency of admitting to the LOI clubs who are really good at an intermediate level and who have nice facilities - regardless of where they're based. But that is just a recipe for failure IMO. It would be like being the best kid at football in a small town school, and turning up at university expecting to be made captain of the varsity squad. When in reality you find that for once you're actually at a level where you no longer stand out and are barely good enough to make the subs bench. Despite the fact that you have the latest boots, a great haircut and can somersault when you score. This is the approach that gave us the likes of Thurles Town, NewcastleWest, St Francis and Mervue United. Clubs that were great at a junior and intermediate level, but who realistically were always going to struggle to draw a crowd.

    The problem with Point 3 above for me is that, if you accept it, it undermines the entire principle of a pyramid system in Irish football. Because it would just result in the league having more Salthill Devons and Merviue Uniteds (as it did the one time we did have more of a pyramid system). Big fish in small ponds who haven't got the where-with-all to survive when placed in the financial ocean that is the LOI.

    In the Irish League, tiny clubs like Institute and Warrenpoint get to the top tier by virtue of the fact that the gap between intermediate and senior football there isn't all that big. They then add nothing to the top level in reality (no fans, no appeal etc), and in-effect help limit the top tier's growth and thereby sustain the narrow gap between the levels. It's a recipe for mediocrity and for the dominance of just a few longstanding clubs (who can create their own financial weather).
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 15/11/2020 at 2:34 PM.

  12. Thanks From:


  13. #91
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    31,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,216
    Thanked in
    1,968 Posts
    A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

    What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

    Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 15/11/2020 at 2:41 PM.

  14. #92
    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In the shadow realm
    Posts
    101
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    31
    Thanked in
    17 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

    What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

    Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.
    Totally agree. There has to be strong incentives and reduced risk for established junior clubs to make the step up. Access to national underage is a big incentive.

  15. #93
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    31,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,216
    Thanked in
    1,968 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa View Post
    There has to be strong incentives and reduced risk for established junior clubs to make the step up.
    Yep. And that's something that's effectively never been there before (or even now). The First Division is the Graveyard for a reason.

  16. #94
    Youth Team Kiki Balboa's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In the shadow realm
    Posts
    101
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    31
    Thanked in
    17 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Yep. And that's something that's effectively never been there before (or even now). The First Division is the Graveyard for a reason.
    The 'A' league reduced risk, amateur rather than semi professional/regional reduced cost.

    To be fair, its the same problem acorss Irish football (and others far and wide), like of investment/capital for long term projects.

  17. #95
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    31,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,216
    Thanked in
    1,968 Posts
    It did and it didn't.

    The case of Tralee Dynamoes makes that point - they had to leave the Kerry League to join the A Championship which ran on a different season (so a few months without a game), and when they wanted to drop out, they had to return to the foot of the Kerry League pyramid (again with a few months without a game because of the different seasons) and make their way back up.

    That's utterly, utterly idiotic and counter-productive.

  18. Thanks From:


  19. #96
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,294
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    83
    Thanked in
    63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    In the Irish League, tiny clubs like Institute and Warrenpoint get to the top tier by virtue of the fact that the gap between intermediate and senior football there isn't all that big.
    Afternoon all.

    Just idly browsing, but I have to say that that caught my eye.

    I mean, isn't that the whole point of a pyramid? That is, you aim to reach the top by being able to climb from each step to the next. While the clubs who are replaced don't have so far to descend.

    Contrast that with eg the LOI, where you have a fairly competitive top division (the apex); the next step down has maybe 4 or 5 clubs with realistic aspirations of climbing further and staying there, with the rest just making up the numbers. After that it's like falling off a cliff.

    Perhaps that's why there were never any ancient pyramids in Ireland: they didn't realise you build them from the bottom up, not the top down!

    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    They then add nothing to the top level in reality (no fans, no appeal etc), and in-effect help limit the top tier's growth and thereby sustain the narrow gap between the levels. It's a recipe for mediocrity and for the dominance of just a few longstanding clubs (who can create their own financial weather).
    Really?

    So long as they're not getting humped 6-0 every week, are living within their means and not incurring huge debts/going bust, what harm is there in clubs like that? They add variety to the same old, same old.

    Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

    Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

    Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 19/11/2020 at 3:41 PM.

  20. Thanks From:


  21. #97
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,294
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    83
    Thanked in
    63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

    What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

    Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.
    Agree with all of that

    Meanwhile, after a period of being very badly run, as you say, Portadown have finally got back to the top division - just in time for Covid!

    While Distillery's troubles (literally) all stem from having been caught up in the middle of a war zone at Grosvenor Park. After the ground was fire-bombed, then demolished, it was unrealistic to try to relocate within Belfast (too many clubs already), and while Lisburn might have seemed like a good idea, Ballyskeagh really isn't suitable for football, and has never caught on.

    But I'd have loved to have got to a game at Grosvenor, one of the great old Irish football grounds:


  22. #98
    First Team
    Joined
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,930
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    194
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    237
    Thanked in
    163 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Afternoon all.

    So long as they're not getting humped 6-0 every week, are living within their means and not incurring huge debts/going bust, what harm is there in clubs like that? They add variety to the same old, same old.

    Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

    Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

    Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?
    Exactly and UCD are the perfect example. Whether you agree or dislike how they are funded doesn't really matter, at the end of the day they are always relatively competitive in whichever division they play and probably more important they will never have an * beside their name.

    As much as we'd like to have strong crowds at games, it isn't the end all and be all of a club. Every country will have teams near the bottom of their pyramid system who have small crowds but are financially stable. It just so happens that those type of clubs are closer to the top tier in this country.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

  23. #99
    Youth Team DCSIL's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2020
    Posts
    137
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    16
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    22
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post

    Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

    Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

    Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?
    Great set up at Warrenpoint(Especially the "Medical Room" )Usually in the lower half of the Irish League but competitive, and Where they are often pick up players from Mid-Ulster and Louth sides and Develop them. Backed well by local business in recent years.

  24. #100
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    18,168
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,801
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,171
    Thanked in
    3,275 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DCSIL View Post
    Great set up at Warrenpoint(Especially the "Medical Room" )Usually in the lower half of the Irish League but competitive, and Where they are often pick up players from Mid-Ulster and Louth sides and Develop them. Backed well by local business in recent years.
    Exactly the type of club we need on both sides of the border, as we don't have a lot of large population centres and there are a lot of players who aren't in close proximity to them who could benefit from clubs like that. Not comparing them in terms of being well-run, but the likes of Athlone and Wexford do a similar job here.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. ET: In Pictures: Treaty United 0-7 Shelbourne
    By Foot.ie in forum Football Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14/10/2020, 8:50 AM
  2. ET: FAI Cup Preview: Treaty United -v- DLR Waves
    By Foot.ie in forum Football Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03/10/2020, 6:40 AM
  3. ET: WNL Report: Peamount United 5-0 Treaty United
    By Foot.ie in forum Football Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09/08/2020, 1:20 PM
  4. ET: WNL Preview: Peamount United -v- Treaty United
    By Foot.ie in forum Football Feeds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07/08/2020, 8:00 PM
  5. Treaty United (WNL)
    By NeverFeltBetter in forum Women's Football
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29/07/2020, 6:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •