Potential New EL Teams

[garykelly]

why and how would the Chinese community become aware of a Chinese player in the eL and then bother to flock to come see him?

they'd go becuase they arent a cynical bunch of irish people...that's why

[NY Hoop]

Replace CHF with a club from Kerry. Simple reasoning. One club has no fans and would not be missed and the other has great potential. I think they got 3,000 in a U21 semi versus boez a few years back.

Unfortunately it is difficult enough to get enough fans going at present so increasing membership is a no no. Also if clubs are having trouble with UEFA licensing now what would it be like with new clubs?!

However think its good that the U21 league is including non league clubs.

Introducing clubs cos of a population explosion in the Polish and Chinese communities is the most bizarre suggestion ever!


KOH

[Macy]

It's worked in other countries, with other immigrant populations....

[dcfcsteve]

I thought however that the Welsh 'exiles' had been in the English League before the League of Wales formed in 1992 so they don't really come under this law.

The Welsh FA tried to force them to join the League of Wales in 1992, and when they refused they banned them from playing in Wales. Hence Newport, Merthyr etc had to play home games in the English border counties until the legal case was sorted out 2 seasons later.

The only penalty the WFA have against them now is that it refuses to nominate them for Europe - even if/when they win the Welsh FA Cup.

[paudie]

The only penalty the WFA have against them now is that it refuses to nominate them for Europe - even if/when they win the Welsh FA Cup.

I think the non League of Wales clubs aren't allowed enter the FAW Cup but they invented the "Welsh Premier Cup" or something which these clubs can enter along with LOW clubs.

Seems to have been created to allow the FAW make a few bob from a Swansea-Wrexham cup final without giving them a Euro place.

[Gerrit]

Is Newry nationalist then ? Cause if not it's unlikely they'd even consider leaving the IL.



I do seem to remember BTW that UEFA can put a veto against teams playing in Europe when they don't play in their own country's league. This is for example a matter that could come into debate soon if Liechtenstein's FC Vaduz would promote to the Swiss top division (they already came very close two times !)

I hope the teams aren't allowed to just switch national FAs. Think of the ridiculous situations it could bring. A Maltese team could just switch to the Italian league for example, where's the sense in that ?!

I am not sure at all, but I do seem to remember having read that for crossborder/exile clubs, UEFA has to approve. In case of Derry it was okay because they were not welcome anymore in their own league, in case of the three Welsh clubs in the English league it was approved because they were in it since the pre-Welsh League days, and in case of the Liechtenstein clubs it was approved because the country does not have any league itself.

[jagman]

Theres around 30,000 people living in Navan and Meath is a big county


surely theres room for an EL club there?

[Slash/ED]

A few people from Meath seem to follow Dublin teams, Shels and Bohs both have a few from there afaik.

[jagman]

A few people from Meath seem to follow Dublin teams, Shels and Bohs both have a few from there afaik.

yeah but they are mostly dublin people living in meath
there must be a market for all the meath people?

[crc]

I used to think that it would be great if the likes of Newry, Cliftonville etc fell out with the Irish League and then joined us. But that was back in the days when I was very anti-IL (I've mellowed a bit with age... )

The Setanta Cup has done a hell of a lot to bring southern and northern clubs and fans closer together - I honestly do believe that. Assuming the cup continues to be trouble-free, with a large pay-out and broader participation, I would argue that it makes an all-island league of some sort inevitable within the next 10 years. It's likely that it'll take the likes of Linfield, Glens, Shels etc threatening to leave their respective leagues to force the 2 associations into it, but I believe a successful Setanta will make this inevitable. It would be naive to believe that Linfield haven't thought about this type of thing - Jeffrey's went on the record talking-up an all-island league.

Therefore - I'd rather see a single league on the island begin life from a positive, progressive and inclusive basis - rather than have one arrive by default through random teams from nationalist areas leaving the IL. That would create a real 'them and us' attitude and a defensive reaction from the remaining IL teams, would do a huge amount of damage to the overall aim of an AIL, and I believe would set the project back many years.

The clubs on both sides of the border are slowly shuffling closer together. Let's see that process continue to its (hopefully) natural conclusion...

That's pretty much how I feel, I just wanted to know what other people thought.

[crc]

Unfortunately it is difficult enough to get enough fans going at present so increasing membership is a no no. Also if clubs are having trouble with UEFA licensing now what would it be like with new clubs?!

The problem with this hypothesis is that counties like Kerry, Wexford, Mayo, Tipp, Carlow, Cavan currently contribute nothing to the eL. Therefore, to add extra eL teams from these counties will in no way take away from the fans / resources of Cork, Bohs, Drogheda, Finn Harps. It would be different if you were going to add teams into an already competitive market (like CHF tried to do), but there is no eL competition to a club setting up in Tralee, Castlebar Wexford - it simply has to be self sufficient.

A lot of the figures that have been posted for the various town population sizes are incorrect, simply because the old town boundaries do not reflect the new housing estates that are popping up all over the place

The figures I quoted earlier are specifically NOT those for administrative boundaries. They are figures for actual urban areas. That is why Cork is listed as 179k rather than 123k, and Dublin is 965k rather than the 1million+ so often quoted [Dubliners, does this make you feel inadequate??]

[dcfcsteve]

I think the non League of Wales clubs aren't allowed enter the FAW Cup but they invented the "Welsh Premier Cup" or something which these clubs can enter along with LOW clubs.

Seems to have been created to allow the FAW make a few bob from a Swansea-Wrexham cup final without giving them a Euro place.

The Welsh teams that play in the English pyramid system are allowed to play in the Welsh FA Cup, as they are based in that jurisdiction. However, the Welsh FA deliberately schedules the first rounds of the Welsh FA Cup games to clash directly with the first rounds of the English FA Cup games, forcing the Welsh exiles teams to choose (and they always choose England). The rules of both competitions bind you to 'send out your best team', so if they tried to play second strings in the early stages of the Welsh FA Cup they'd be pulled-up on this by the Welsh FA.

[dcfcsteve]

Is Newry nationalist then ? Cause if not it's unlikely they'd even consider leaving the IL.

Gerrit - Newry is very Catholic/Nationalist as a town... . Do some people in Belgium speak French....?

I do seem to remember BTW that UEFA can put a veto against teams playing in Europe when they don't play in their own country's league. This is for example a matter that could come into debate soon if Liechtenstein's FC Vaduz would promote to the Swiss top division (they already came very close two times !)

Yes and no. Each individual UEFA association is responsible for nominating its own reps for European competition, and UEFA doesn't interfere with this (ref the recent Liverpool CL saga, and Real Madrid's similar one a few years back). Hence - UEFA wouldn't exercise such a veto. However - the reason why a Welsh league was set-up was because the British associations are disproportionately represented on UEFA/FIFA governing bodies (they have a rotating permanent seat), and other football associations - particularly African ones - were starting to complain about this in the context of their under-representation and the lack of a Welsh League. Hence the Welsh FA pre-empted this criticism by setting one up in 1992.

I hope the teams aren't allowed to just switch national FAs. Think of the ridiculous situations it could bring. A Maltese team could just switch to the Italian league for example, where's the sense in that ?!

You mean like Monaco playing in France ? Vaduz in Leichtenstein ? Berwick in Scotland ?

I am not sure at all, but I do seem to remember having read that for crossborder/exile clubs, UEFA has to approve. In case of Derry it was okay because they were not welcome anymore in their own league, in case of the three Welsh clubs in the English league it was approved because they were in it since the pre-Welsh League days, and in case of the Liechtenstein clubs it was approved because the country does not have any league itself.

Not true at all - see my earlier post on this. Under EU restraint of trade laws, clubs of EU member countries can play in the league of any other EU member country, so long as the league they are looking to join accepts them. There was a test case taken by the Welsh exile clubs in the English High Court in 1994 that created this ruling. The reason more teams haven't switched around leagues is pressure between international football associations (ref : the Old Firm and England), but it will inevitably happen more and more (probably starting with Celtic and Rangers).

[Baker]

A few years ago I heard that Belfast Celtic had applied for entry to the EL.
It was immediately rejected as they are from outside the jurasdiction.

[Da Real Rover]

The problem with this hypothesis is that counties like Kerry, Wexford, Mayo, Tipp, Carlow, Cavan currently contribute nothing to the eL. Therefore, to add extra eL teams from these counties will in no way take away from the fans / resources of Cork, Bohs, Drogheda, Finn Harps. It would be different if you were going to add teams into an already competitive market (like CHF tried to do), but there is no eL competition to a club setting up in Tralee, Castlebar Wexford - it simply has to be self sufficient.

Get your facts right crc, Rovers have a considerable following in Mayo and there could be fans from south Mayo who follow Galway, therefore if the Mayo league was promoted to the first division they could be eating away at our catchment area. A direct conflict of interset.

[dcfcsteve]

A few years ago I heard that Belfast Celtic had applied for entry to the EL.
It was immediately rejected as they are from outside the jurasdiction.

Touch of the urban myth about this Baker ? I don't recall this, and can't see why they would've applied to join the EL, rather than the IL. Assuming it did happen, however - I'd bet any such rejection was down to other reasons, rather than the jurisdiction one, as the law is very clear on this.

Do a web search on the English High Court judgement by Judge/Lord Blackburn in the 1994 case of Newport Co et al v the FAW if you don't believe me. I don't lie....

The full story of this case was all confirmed to me in person by a former President of the FAW, who was also a FIFA board member. Choose to disbelieve a High Court judge and former FIFA Board member on this if you will...

Anyways - as an aside, Belfast Celtic don't exist as a football club any more. They don't operate as a club, and don't have anywhere to play. As far as I'm aware, the copyright to the name 'Belfast Celtic' is also in the ownership of a Belfast bookie - possible Barney Eastwood - in which case they mightened even be able to even use the name. Donegal Celtic changing their name to Belfast Celtic would've been a very obvious thing to do years ago, yet it's strange that they haven't...