Potential New EL Teams

[pete]

I'm surprised Mick Wallace doesn't create a Wexford County senior side...

[Roo69]

[QUOTE=Gerrit]At the Shels messageboard there was a suggestion after the Ireland vs China game: buy a decent Chinese player that would actually make the team every week, and maybe part of the 5000 Chinese fans that were at Lansdowne would also come to Tolka Park. Interesting idea IF the Chinese guy would actually play. [QUOTE]

I was actually thinking something along those lines myself, youd think with Shels connections that they would try and the chinese bloke from Man U on loan next season, great prospect who would play almost every game for Shels, he would defo bring in new chinese supporters as well. just an idea.

Also, has the idea ever been mooted of running the league like the All Ireland is run, surely EVERY county in Ireland has enough support to have at least one senior team in the county, i reckon if it was run the same way as the GAA that it could be done right, i reckon a lot of GAA heads might think differently if they had a County football (soccer) team to support etc....

[Poor Student]

Eh, there's a difference between the Chinese community coming out to see their national team and coming out to see a fellow compatriot playing in the eL. Our own people can't be arsed to watch our own league full of Irishmen why and how would the Chinese community become aware of a Chinese player in the eL and then bother to flock to come see him?

[Ronnie]

Theres plenty who could consider it. In Mullingar if the two clubs came together their combined facilities and income earning from their 5 aisdes would give them a good base.

As the quality of training of players outside the main cities is improving, there should be more lads from country areas good enough for the el in the future, this may give an impetus for new clubs.

The downside is of course they'd want to have a long term plan, its a costly exercise!

[hamish]

Theres plenty who could consider it. In Mullingar if the two clubs came together their combined facilities and income earning from their 5 aisdes would give them a good base.

As the quality of training of players outside the main cities is improving, there should be more lads from country areas good enough for the el in the future, this may give an impetus for new clubs.

The downside is of course they'd want to have a long term plan, its a costly exercise!

Love to see that happening but, sad to say, it's Rangers/Celtic situation there, if you know what I mean.

[anto eile]

Kerry has the potential, Wexford, Cavan town's surely big enough for a new team. Maybe Ennis as well, what's their population ?

cavan would be another monaghan utd situation imo

[anto eile]

Looking at those CSO stats, you would think that Carlow would have an EL side, maybe its to close to Kilkenny or something, but big student population and all that

you could use that logic for UCD ,and that hardly works out to crowds of thousands!

surprised at kilkenny population 19,000. thought kilkenny "city" had 100,000?!i was well wrong there..though maybe the entire country has 100,000??

as for Derry, whats the nationalist population?105,000 is misleading as a catchment area,because lets face it no unionists are gonna support derry city fc

[anto eile]

As far as I know, Newcastle West in Co. Limerick is the new holder of that title. I remember reading an article about it around 3 months ago. Land is being gobbled up by housing estates and the likes of Tesco and Dunnes at a frightening rate. Newcastle West used to have a LoI team in the eighties of course, but I can safely say that they won't be having one again in the future.

I think one team per county is enough. None of the Dublin clubs have a huge support when they should have. Cobh struggle because Cork are the main club down there. I think the FAI should look at the feasibility of starting up teams in Kerry, Tipperary, Clare, Mayo, Offaly, Wexford and Carlow. If there are any other clubs out there, such as Wayside Celtic, that fancy playing at senior level then they could be looked at too. A third division could be run on its own for a year or two, and if successful promotion\relegation between Division 1 could be introduced. You would think that if this was realised, and with an eventual amalgamation with the IL, you would have a very ecxiting league with at least 4 Divisions and huge media coverage.......we can only dream

4 divisions would be a complete disaster.imagine how low crowds would be in the 4th division!

cobh could be marketed better to produce crowds.its an island, that could be used as a way of marking the club out as the islands team etc.

bear in mind crowds in relation to population: i read before that club can realsitically only get about 10% at most of their town's/city's population to support them.in towns of 15,000 a crowd of 1500 is actually very big

[gael353]

[QUOTE=dcfcsteve]Have just done a Google search and you're right Poor Student. The Polish Embassy estimate 40,000 Poles in the country, though because they don't have to register this is merely an educated guess. 3,000 Polish in Limerick alone.
Re the Polish - I'd still say that 40,000 people spread across the island as your absolute maximum target audience isn't a strong enough base of support for a senior football team. Only a percentage of those would be based in the town where the team itself actually played-in, and then within that only a small fraction would actually be interested in supporting the team in any active sense. We'd be talking hundreds here at most I believe, which wouldn't make it viable.

What i think would be interesting, however, would be if an EL team signed a player who was a member of a community that existed in decent numbers in their town. For example - with an estimated 3,000 Poles in Limerick, it would be interesting to see what would happen if Limerick signed a Polish player and actively courted that community as a result. Would it actually help to generate support for that team amongst the immigrant community ?[QUOTE]

I love the poles in Limerick cos the women that they bring with them are far hotter then the natives. we should start calling ourselves limerick poles or something to grab their lot up to the games but to be fair a lot of foreigners do already come to the games. Slovacs, Chineese, Japs, Turks, Germans and even some brits. I was in the states a few years back and in Chicago the fire had a few poles signed for them so a lot of poles went to their games. Their crowds would be 9,000 mostly poles and mexicans but there were more then 40,000 poles in chicago surely and maybe comparing them to us is a bit weird. We have a slovak on our books right now and hes broght a few mates along but only one chick so far and yea she was hot lol

[dapman1]

A lot of the figures that have been posted for the various town population sizes are incorrect, simply because the old town boundaries do not reflect the new housing estates that are popping up all over the place. Last year the local newspaper in Kildare said that the county plan envisaged a population in Newbridge of 25,000 in 2007, growing to 45,000 over the following 10 years. It then went on to say that the population of the Newbridge "electoral" area was currently 28,000???????

I think that if you look around the country at some of the larger towns that have become part of the commuter belt for the main cities, then you will find that the populations are much larger then the figures from the official government publications.

Sure if they addmitted the true populations of the towns, then they would have to put in some infrastucture.

I think that Arklow, Mullingar, Wexford and Tralee are the best bets. If they managed to get crowds in the region of 350 - 500 per home game, put together some decent facilities and fund raised like mad, then they could have a decent future and would be a welcome addition to the first division and the league as a whole.

Thats what happens at Kildare. It wouldnt be the worst model to follow, despite some obvious mistakes along the way.

[Kingdom]

With regard to the Kerry League U21 team , that was obviously a team of select players from the Kerry District League.
The first year they competed they did quite well and got reasonably good crowds. Unfortunately a few of the players subsequently signed for the established eL clubs (Chris Kerins - Limerick ; Some lad O'Mahony - Limerick ; Shane Guthrie -Cork City) .

There would be in my mind HUGE potential for a Kerry team in the eL. As Dynamo Kerry said earlier on the coverage of soccer in the local media (particularily the print) has improved tenfold. As would be expected with so many of the underage players getting selected for the National teams and with quite a few doing well across the water.

The facilities in Mounthawk Park are as good as some other clubs. They ahve a fine main pitch with one stand that can cater for 500 afaik, and there is room to develop as well. No problem parking as it is outside the main confines of the town.

[paudie]

Definitely agree that the EL needs some new blood but has to be done carefully.

With existing clubs struggling to meet licencing criteria would new clubs be expected to meet ground criteria (for example) before they start or would they be given a couple of season's grace or maybe big capital grants?

If so would that be fair to existing clubs?

If new clubs had to meet ground criteria before starting to play how would they raise the money to fund this work AND pay players as well.

At a minimum FAI should be planning to bring in 2 new teams over the next few years to bring first division up to 12 but not sure if you'll have many queuing up.

On the face of it Kildare were an ideal addition to the league (big catchment area, reasonably good facilities) but now look like they're finding it tough as they are still in the first division.

[dancinpants]

as for Derry, whats the nationalist population?105,000 is misleading as a catchment area,because lets face it no unionists are gonna support derry city fc

The nationalist population is believed to make up around 75% of the city's population. To say that Derry's supporters are drawn exclusively from one side of the community is a wee bit much. A very high percentage - yes, exclusively - no.

[4tothefloor]

I love the poles in Limerick cos the women that they bring with them are far hotter then the natives.

I'd like to see these women cos most of the Polish\Russian women I know of, and there's a lot of them, are average looking. And thats being kind!

We'd surely be able to sign a Chinese\Japanese player with Danny Drew's connections. We could put a take-away in where the hot-dog hut is and all

[dcfcsteve]

as for Derry, whats the nationalist population?105,000 is misleading as a catchment area,because lets face it no unionists are gonna support derry city fc

Why would no Unionists support Derry City FC Anto ? We've always had Unionist supporet - admittedly much less so now than in our IL days, but it may shock you to learn that some protestants do go to Derry games.

Our fan-base is very non-political, and we've never had any problems in our entire history of having players, fans, managers and board members from both communities. So that's a bit of a harsh view you're peddling there.

[crc]

as for Derry, whats the nationalist population?105,000 is misleading as a catchment area,because lets face it no unionists are gonna support derry city fc

Leaving aside your preconceived notions about Derry City FC, the figure listed for Derry is the Derry City Council area, which includes some rural areas. The figure for the city is about 95,000. If you want to talk about catchment areas, bear in mind that large parts of Donegal (especially Inisowen) would be in Derry's catchment area. However, in the interest of dealing with facts and not merely speculation, according to the 2001 NI Census, 75.4% of the population of the Derry City Council area were identified as having come from a Catholic background (against 23.2% from a Protestant background).

Expansion of the eL must be on the basis of clubs that have grown organically (like Tralee Dynamos), that way there is a better chance that they will be sustainable.

(Wondering aloud) Is there any possibility of defections from the IL , like if Omagh reformed, or Newry City maybe (???) That would be another avenue to grow the eL...

[holidaysong]

(Wondering aloud) Is there any possibility of defections from the IL , like if Omagh reformed, or Newry City maybe (???) That would be another avenue to grow the eL...

I doubt they would be allowed do that by UEFA - Derry City were only allowed in due to 'special circumstances'.

[dcfcsteve]

(Wondering aloud) Is there any possibility of defections from the IL , like if Omagh reformed, or Newry City maybe (???) That would be another avenue to grow the eL...

I used to think that it would be great if the likes of Newry, Cliftonville etc fell out with the Irish League and then joined us. But that was back in the days when I was very anti-IL (I've mellowed a bit with age... )

The Setanta Cup has done a hell of a lot to bring southern and northern clubs and fans closer together - I honestly do believe that. Assuming the cup continues to be trouble-free, with a large pay-out and broader participation, I would argue that it makes an all-island league of some sort inevitable within the next 10 years. It's likely that it'll take the likes of Linfield, Glens, Shels etc threatening to leave their respective leagues to force the 2 associations into it, but I believe a successful Setanta will make this inevitable. It would be naive to believe that Linfield haven't thought about this type of thing - Jeffrey's went on the record talking-up an all-island league.

Therefore - I'd rather see a single league on the island begin life from a positive, progressive and inclusive basis - rather than have one arrive by default through random teams from nationalist areas leaving the IL. That would create a real 'them and us' attitude and a defensive reaction from the remaining IL teams, would do a huge amount of damage to the overall aim of an AIL, and I believe would set the project back many years.

The clubs on both sides of the border are slowly shuffling closer together. Let's see that process continue to its (hopefully) natural conclusion...

[dcfcsteve]

I doubt they would be allowed do that by UEFA - Derry City were only allowed in due to 'special circumstances'.

Holidaysong - under European Law (as used by the Welsh 'exile' clubs in the mid 1990's) clubs from one jurisdiction within the EU cannot be prevented by their home jurisdiction from playing in another association's league. That's a legal fact.

The only thing that would stop this would be if the league they wanted to join voted not to accept them.

Their own/original league could choose to exclude them from any European competitions as that association's reps, but so long as they had a chance of qualifying for Europe through their new league - and that league had no issues with nominating them if they did - then that wouldn't matter either.

This law had not been established when Derry joined the LOI in the pre-Maastricht/EU days (1985).

[holidaysong]

Never thought about the EU common market law being used in football but yeah - makes sense.

I thought however that the Welsh 'exiles' had been in the English League before the League of Wales formed in 1992 so they don't really come under this law.

However I would strongly agree with your point that teams like Cliftonville shouldn't jump ship as that would cause hostility between IFA and FAI. This we don't need as I think the vast majority of posters on this site want an All-Ireland league some time in the future.