Faroe Islands and other minnows

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted. All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.

Originally Posted by gaf1983

Scotland
.

touche!

Not so long ago you could have included the Republic of Ireland in that little lot. I know Scotland are having a bad time of it lately but you are taking the ****, aren't you.

Originally Posted by gaf1983

FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted.

I don't think that's true. The rules for the current qualifying rounds state GD against ALL teams counts.

Good point about the minnows though. I'd like to see a separate B World Cup & European Championships. Give these guys something to aim for & have some way of being promoted to the main group.

yeah I was taking the pi$$ when I included Scotland in the list, but my basic point is that the teams that consistently finish bottom of the qualifiers should play in a second tier competition, and if they're good enough to win that, they should be allowed compete with the stronger teams.

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.

I think it's a good thing. I think it fosters the game in these countries.
Take the Faroes for example when would they ever get the chance to play against the likes of France if it were not in a competitive match. Do you think they could afford to play France or other top nations in friendlies.

Originally Posted by gaf1983

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted.

Scotland??

Originally Posted by gaf1983

All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

I don't think that we saw a Faroese team with 10 men behind the ball through out the match on Wedensday. As I understand from most managers from the "big" taems is that the Faroes, in contrary to other minnows, really put their hearth in the game, and are moving the ball forwards. I really understand your point, but I'd rather watch 100 Faroes vs Ireland matches, than one single between Italy and Germany. You saw the match.. it was men against men, not spoiled primadonnas with highly insured legs to worry about!

Originally Posted by gaf1983

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.

All put aside, I like this thought, and it isn't new really. Mostly because I'm quite sure that the Faroes probably would end top-two.
The down-side of this proposel is, that you probably would be forced into dividing the teams into A, B and C, just as handball was preveously. But they left that system, and are now using the one FIFA and UEFA are using now.

I agree 100% with the opening post.

Lets say for WC 2006 the following could have happened. The top 39 countries (40 minus hosts Germany) in the seedings should get automatic entry into the main qualifiers. The other 12 countries:
Armenia
Cyprus
Moldova
Northern Ireland
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Faroe Islands
Malta
Kazakhstan
Luxembourg
San Marino

Should be be drawn together. 12 makes 6, 6 makes 3. Thats 2 ties for a country, max.

Those 3 countries join the other 39 (=42) and you then make groups.

Thats just an example, change the numbers around to whatever way you like.

The pre-qualifying matches could be played whenever the WC or EC is taking place.

Islander, what about competing in a group where you'd have a realistic chance of scoring points and having something positive to aim for?

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Islander, what about competing in a group where you'd have a realistic chance of scoring points and having something positive to aim for?

I can't really take a defenite side on this matter, there are good arguments for both options. However, I would really miss the opportunity to see quality teams visiting Tórsvøllur. On the other hand, it would very tempting to be in a pre-qualifying group with a perhaps favorite-status.

The option with pre-qualifying groups would satisfy the the bigger teams, whilst the present system indeed satisfies the smaller ones (and those who like whole-hearted team-effort, regardless the opposition)

The whole idea is disgusting. The day FIFA does this, it's the one thing to much. Then I give up on watching professional football and turn into amateur level 100%. The idea is sickening.

EVERY team, no matter how good or bad, has the right to enter and compete. Certainly in country football, where the principle "every country has the right to participate" counts. There should be no classes at all according to level, putting smaller nations into a semi-qualification group is simply wrong IMO. It's this attitude that makes me support against big teams in general. If they feel too good to play Andorra or look down on them, they are the ones who are small nations, not Andorra. My opinion: if a country feels too good for a minnow, they should just not play and take the consequences of a forfait defeat. In fact, countries having the arrogance like Australia not wanting to play Fiji and Tonga anymore betray the true football spirit and bring it down to a game where only results and the survival of the fittest matter. They deserve no respect at all and in fact it's time FIFA starts punishing countries trying to outkick others based on general performances. If they're really too good, they have to prove it on the field, we should NOT give in to arrogant overpaid stars who feel so superior towards their amateur counterparts.

Think my view on this is clear: NO NO NO. I have huge sympathies for the likes of Luxembourg, Faroes, Malta, ... These countries play football with the heart and for the love of the game, even having to invest money and rare holidays themselves to be able to play. Their motivation and enthusiasm to play again and again despite the losses, that is the true spirit of football. The way some bigger/better teams look at these lads is an insult towards the whole basic idea of sports.

I am getting quite irritated and disgusted the last years with the way football is evoluating. UEFA disadvantages the champions of smaller nations in favor of the nr 4 of Spain or Italy, in several countries cup tournaments have special set-ups to protect the big teams, Australia can just walk out of its own continent because they're too vein to play Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea, ... It all seems normal to give in to this and forget the basics of sports. I have not lost love for football yet, but it has a few times come very close to it. If we now go put the minors in pre-qualifiers, that's the final drop for me. Then I will just forget about the big football out there and be one of those few 'freaks' seeing Leinster Senior games only, refusing to any longer pay attention to the arrogant stars of the game...

I cannot see that happening, Gerrit. If the big clubs/countries cut loose then football will just shrivel up/implode. Where, then, will the big guns get their players from so called minnows.

In a strange way, the powerful countries/clubs need the so called minnows as much as the latter need the big guns.

Keep the faith.

Originally Posted by Colie

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.

no way!!!!!!! look at the faroes...ya man was a plumber by day and a footballer by night. he must know himself hes no world beater so to find himself fixing a sink at 10am and lining out representing his country against damien duff that evening must be amazing...disheartening me ars* :P i'd love it

Gerrit, You do know this already goes on? But your still watching football.

The following teams had to enter Stage 1 of the Asia qualifiers:
Bangladesh
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Afghanistan
Chinese Taipei
Macao
Pakistan
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Sri Lanka
Mongolia
Maldives
Guam
Nepal

Its a cup system on a home and away basis and half of them go through to stage 2.

In the North American Zone its the same system as above with the following teams:

Bermuda
Montserrat
Aruba
Surinam
Grenada
Guyana
Cayman Islands
Cuba
British Virgin Islands
St. Lucia
Turks and Caicos Islands
Haiti
US Virgin Islands
St. Kitts and Nevis
Antigua and Barbuda
Netherlands Antilles
Bahamas
Dominica
Anguilla
Dominican Republic

In the Oceanic zone Australia and New Zealand are automatically put through into stage 2.

OK, let me get my comments straight: the day it is happening IN EUROPE I drop out.

Touche mate, forgot about that. Maldives even beat Mongolia 13-0 by the way, says it all about Mongolia (still highly sympathise with the team from this fascinating nomadic country though)

But growing up in Europe and as being a proud European, I have much more affection with Luxembourg, Faroe Islands and San Marino than with Antigua, Guam, Montserrat or Afghanistan (would still chose their side when playing a bigger team though)
If UEFA makes yet another move to satisfy the rich and the famous, then I turn to amateur football only, away from the disgusting game where money is too deeply involved and overrules ethics of the sport.

If you let the minnows all play in the same group with something to aim for, initially that is good. But then these crap teams are going to be at the major competitions meaning it will downgrade them. Surely only the elite should be in these competitions. Imagine this. World Cup Group 1 = Brazil, Germany, Nigeria and ANDORRA. No that is not for me.

Originally Posted by Gerrit

OK, let me get my comments straight: the day it is happening IN EUROPE I drop out.

It's happening in Europe at club level

I'd disagree with this in principel, but seing the Faroes take off their main striker when 2-0 down and their goalkeeper wasteing time when 2-0 down and settling for that result, if that's the height of their ambitions they'res something wrong imo. But at the same time, they have the right to compete and it's not fair putting them in a pre qualifyer.

If there's a WC group with Brazil, Germany, Nigeria and Andorra, I will support Andorra. The little teams are the true footballers: they play with the heart, not with the ideas on a bank account. And I hate the Brazilian football anyway so definitely I go for Andorra, would be extremely cool if they'd beat those Brazilian ego's

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I agree 100% with the opening post.

Lets say for WC 2006 the following could have happened. The top 39 countries (40 minus hosts Germany) in the seedings should get automatic entry into the main qualifiers. The other 12 countries:
Armenia
Cyprus
Moldova
Northern Ireland
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Faroe Islands
Malta
Kazakhstan
Luxembourg
San Marino

Should be be drawn together. 12 makes 6, 6 makes 3. Thats 2 ties for a country, max.

Those 3 countries join the other 39 (=42) and you then make groups.

Thats just an example, change the numbers around to whatever way you like.

The pre-qualifying matches could be played whenever the WC or EC is taking place.

Come on yah gotta luv the banana skin factor!

In fairness Cyprus beat Spain more recently that we have 3-2 in the Euro2000 qualifier- the final table with Cyprus 1 point behind Israel & Austria

Team P W D L F A Dif Pts
Spain 8 7 0 1 42 5 +37 21
Israel 8 4 1 3 25 9 +16 13
Austria 8 4 1 3 19 20 -1 13
Cyprus 8 4 0 3 12 21 -9 12
San Marino 8 0 0 8 1 44 -43 0


Sure Cyprus will lose to Spain 49 times outta 50 but - it's worth having them there just for that 1 win. Don't be so elitist - you sound like the cronies in the G14 who want the group stages in Cup competitions to reduce the chance of the big boys not getting through. Where is the romance gone?