Wales V Republic of Ireland - Sunday, 15th November 2020 - UEFA Nations League

[pineapple stu]

I thought Randolph should have done better tbh; I don't know was he off balance when Bale's header came back across goal, but I thought it was within reach or punch.

But I don't think there's a need to hugely over-analyse it. Goals happen. The other end is the concern.

[jbyrne]

Certain posters go on about our lack of a quality finisher, but it's not as if we're exactly creating a plethora of chances. We could have Robbie in his prime playing up front and we'd still be struggling to score.

top strikers like robbie create chances purely by their positioning, timing of their runs etc. If that's not happening then no chance is created.
there are lots of teams that have punched above their weight purely by having a natural goalscorer in the team.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure why Randolph is being criticised. Is it for not coming for the original ball in? Maybe. For the ball back across? Not for me. It was a great header back across that took out our keeper and set it up on a plate for Brooks. Let's face it, I think it was a good ball in. Not everything has to be accompanied by blame. But I just think Doherty should have been more streetwise. Bale had a run to attack the dropping ball. Doherty tried to get underneath it. If Doherty had stepped back he'd have drawn a foul from Bale I think.

If there was VAR we'd have had a pen. I'm not really complaining but it's the kind of break you need to get on a run like ours. Maybe we were lucky for the Duffy/Moore incident. Not because it was a pen, but because it looked like a pen and some refs would have been fooled. It was clumsy by Duffy. I think the kick out at Molumby would have been a red at a tournament and I forgort to mention that the Welsh player who led with his knee into Randolph was a cowardly ****. Randolph did him a big favour by not playing up. Really really bad tackle. Again, in a tournament and against a different type of character in goal, that's a red too.

[pineapple stu]

For me, yeah, it's Bale's header back across goal that seemed to catch Randolph flat-footed.

But I agree when you say that "not everything has to be accompanied by blame". This was just a goal. It's what happens in games. So the above is just an observation, not a criticism really. (Maybe "Randolph should have done better" was too harsh)

On kick outs, and I think this has been mentioned, but Hendrick probably deserved a red for his kick with ten minutes or so to go (he got yellow instead). That was daft stuff.

[seanfhear]

I've watched the goal back a few times, possibly because I hate myself. When Williams gets the ball, he's facing O'Shea, who shows him out wide. Moore is in front of Long, who's beside Duffy on the edge of the area,with Doherty the other side of the D, and Bale is offscreen. just before Williams crosses, you can see Doherty turn his head, and sees Bale standing just off screen, but he has been drawn in beside Duffy, who's already too close to Long - both centre halves are now marking Moore. Knight is about two yards behind Brooks, who hasn't made it into the box yet.
When the cross comes in, both Duffy and Long go for it, but only Duffy makes contact, but also collides with Long, and knocks him out of it for a second. Moore Knight is now in front of Brooks, between him and the ball. Bale jumps over the reversing Doherty, and knocks the ball back over Knight, who can't reach the looped ball. To his credit, Duffy is back on his feet and almost gets across the goal in time to clear Brooks' header.
There's less than ten seconds between Williams getting the ball and Brooks scoring.

So who's at fault? Both centre halves are close together, and it's not clear which player was marking Moore, Duffy didn't call it was his ball in the air, Doherty didn't close down the obvious threat in Bale, and Knight let Brooks run into the box, but did get into the correct position to block a pass.

Could be all of them, or none of them

see below from 2:18

Work harder to stop the cross and then Duffy just has to head that ball out for a corner ~ ~ Thats my two cents !

[Demesne Lad]

Doherty needed to check who was behind him, and how far away. Bale running in to jump was always going to beat Doherty's standing jump. The ironic thing is that Doherty himself has scored quite a few by creeping round behind the defence.

[nigel-harps1954]

Spot on.

The reality that the majority of the national team's fans won't admit though, is that they have contributed to this dearth of talent. We haven't developed players because we can't develop players because nobody cares about them until they want a ****-up trip for a tournament. You need a thriving grassroots and domestic league to attract and foster talent, particularly in a multi-sport country. It's a funnel and right now we aren't getting enough players in at the top and we are losing them all the way along due largely to relying on English clubs to develop them during their formative years. It's a completely broken system and we are seeing the results clearly now.

Luckily there are some greenshoots, with the national underage leagues and various clubs like Rovers, Pats, Derry etc all doing more to help keep players in Ireland where they can upskill without needing to move away from their families so young. There's a lot of good young coaches coming up now and we and we are seeing some good signs at u21 level already. Think where Troy Parrot might be now if he had sampled European football with a proper senior set up at Dundalk/Rovers/Bohs for the past season or so. Instead he is languishing in the reserves or being punted out on loan because he isn't ready for the level at Spurs. It all needs to be built on though and unfortunately that means putting up with this transition period. I'm not a fan of Kenny but he deserves more time and he will surely get it given the lack of finances at the FAI. It's going to be a rough enough road though and a lot of fans won't enjoy a minute of it.

Until the "best fans in the world" wake up and start paying in at the gates and taking an interest in the game outside of the few pints in the pub or the jolly up away for the weekend we will just be hoping for a Keane or 2 every decade to give us a few decent results. Sadly, the chances of that are getting worse and worse as other countries get better at developing their players and the English clubs can afford to cast bigger nets.

You almost didn't get a thanks for that post...choking on my own rage here with Derry mentioned..

[Bielsa´s irish]

Work harder to stop the cross and then Duffy just has to head that ball out for a corner ~ ~ Thats my two cents !

Very good video analysis. To sum up all of our five players involved made mistakes. I think its good!

[Demesne Lad]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the starting 11 last night were all born on the island of Ireland, as were 3 of the subs.

[tetsujin1979]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the starting 11 last night were all born on the island of Ireland, as were 3 of the subs.

Was the same against Wales a month ago

[ontheotherhand]

You almost didn't get a thanks for that post...choking on my own rage here with Derry mentioned..

I sincerely apologize. I wouldn't ever want to offend a Harps man. Not after you did so much to bring us the league this year. Thanks again!

[Bielsa´s irish]

I've watched the goal back a few times, possibly because I hate myself. When Williams gets the ball, he's facing O'Shea, who shows him out wide. Moore is in front of Long, who's beside Duffy on the edge of the area,with Doherty the other side of the D, and Bale is offscreen. just before Williams crosses, you can see Doherty turn his head, and sees Bale standing just off screen, but he has been drawn in beside Duffy, who's already too close to Long - both centre halves are now marking Moore. Knight is about two yards behind Brooks, who hasn't made it into the box yet.
When the cross comes in, both Duffy and Long go for it, but only Duffy makes contact, but also collides with Long, and knocks him out of it for a second. Moore Knight is now in front of Brooks, between him and the ball. Bale jumps over the reversing Doherty, and knocks the ball back over Knight, who can't reach the looped ball. To his credit, Duffy is back on his feet and almost gets across the goal in time to clear Brooks' header.
There's less than ten seconds between Williams getting the ball and Brooks scoring.

So who's at fault? Both centre halves are close together, and it's not clear which player was marking Moore, Duffy didn't call it was his ball in the air, Doherty didn't close down the obvious threat in Bale, and Knight let Brooks run into the box, but did get into the correct position to block a pass.

Could be all of them, or none of them

see below from 2:18

Very good analysis, it was a team mistake,

1)dara didnt block the cross.
2)Duffy didnt headed out to corner
3)Long didnt headed it
4)Doherty didnt pressure Bale fast enough
5)Knight didnt track back Brooks and failed to catch the pass back from Bale
6)Randolph flat foot slipped

[seanfhear]

Very good analysis, it was a team mistake,

1)dara didnt block the cross.
2)Duffy didnt headed out to corner
3)Long didnt headed it
4)Doherty didnt pressure Bale fast enough
5)Knight didnt track back Brooks and failed to catch the pass back from Bale
6)Randolph flat foot slipped

Knight was also too small.

[elatedscum]

It’s a tough one. People are right in saying that sometimes goals occur without any real blame, so to speak.

Really think Knight should be goal side. He’s jogging. If that’s me in that situation, there’s no way I’m letting him have 3 yards. It’s just lazy and it’s avoidable. Can’t see how he wouldn’t sense the danger. Was something I was taught playing in midfield as a kid. Always get back goalside of your man when the opposition are breaking. I can remember doing it a hundred times, just that little sprint to get back the right side before they get to the D. Then stay touch tight goalside to them and either react first or block them off. Trying not to be too harsh on a teenager but work ethic is the minimum you’d expect, unless you’re carrying a knock - and he’s just off the bench too. People have spoken about the Byrne pass, but for me, that’s as big a **** up as Byrne’s was.

Moore is Long’s man but Duffy reacts to Moore’s movement and Long being slightly wrong side. The gap left isn’t great but to sense the danger is good defensive instincts. And if Duffy doesn’t attack it, Moore probably wins the header - and maybe it’s a goal. It’s a bit unlucky where the header ends up. More often than not, it’s out for a corner.

James is quick and his cross is good. O’Shea could try put a tackle in or block the cross but I feel that’s a little harsh too. If he makes a block or tackle there, it’s very good defending. There are defenders out there who would have stopped the cross getting there. If Wan-Bissaka or Roberson are playing full back in that situation, I don’t think the cross happens. Still, it’s not enough to say it was a mistake by O’Shea.

Equally, Doherty, could be a little deeper and win the header but that’s also harsh. Teams at the highest level for the past 10 years tend to have the fullback on the opposite flack tuck in and cover space because they’ll have time to drop back if there’s a deep cross. It’s a difficult one to judge and it pretty much landed in the only area that would really hurt us. Any deeper and Bale isn’t able to get purchase on the header. Less deep, Doherty wins it. Further back it’s behind bale, further forward its a corner. Bale is very good in the air too.

Randolph could try win the first ball but that’s also pretty harsh. Every chance when he’s making the decision to comes to claim it, Moore beats him to it and they score.

Can’t remember who gave the ball away, where or how. And if there’s any blame there...

[Bielsa´s irish]

It’s a tough one. People are right in saying that sometimes goals occur without any real blame, so to speak.

Really think Knight should be goal side. He’s jogging. If that’s me in that situation, there’s no way I’m letting him have 3 yards. It’s just lazy and it’s avoidable. Can’t see how he wouldn’t sense the danger. Was something I was taught playing in midfield as a kid. Always get back goalside of your man when the opposition are breaking. I can remember doing it a hundred times, just that little sprint to get back the right side before they get to the D. Then stay touch tight goalside to them and either react first or block them off. Trying not to be too harsh on a teenager but work ethic is the minimum you’d expect, unless you’re carrying a knock - and he’s just off the bench too. People have spoken about the Byrne pass, but for me, that’s as big a **** up as Byrne’s was.

Moore is Long’s man but Duffy reacts to Moore’s movement and Long being slightly wrong side. The gap left isn’t great but to sense the danger is good defensive instincts. And if Duffy doesn’t attack it, Moore probably wins the header - and maybe it’s a goal. It’s a bit unlucky where the header ends up. More often than not, it’s out for a corner.

James is quick and his cross is good. O’Shea could try put a tackle in or block the cross but I feel that’s a little harsh too. If he makes a block or tackle there, it’s very good defending. There are defenders out there who would have stopped the cross getting there. If Wan-Bissaka or Roberson are playing full back in that situation, I don’t think the cross happens. Still, it’s not enough to say it was a mistake by O’Shea.

Equally, Doherty, could be a little deeper and win the header but that’s also harsh. Teams at the highest level for the past 10 years tend to have the fullback on the opposite flack tuck in and cover space because they’ll have time to drop back if there’s a deep cross. It’s a difficult one to judge and it pretty much landed in the only area that would really hurt us. Any deeper and Bale isn’t able to get purchase on the header. Less deep, Doherty wins it. Further back it’s behind bale, further forward its a corner. Bale is very good in the air too.

Randolph could try win the first ball but that’s also pretty harsh. Every chance when he’s making the decision to comes to claim it, Moore beats him to it and they score.

Can’t remember who gave the ball away, where or how. And if there’s any blame there...

The video analysis was very good by tetsujin, it is a team mistake. Every little error ended up in 0-1. If it was a VAR there, they would have called it a foul by Moore.
Spain got two penalties without VAR, soft calls , very.

I felt the same on Knight, was just coming and this will make him a better player, Bale pass was vgood

[irishfan86]

I always love a good breakdown of a goal but the depth of analysis here is exceptional, and in my view an indication of how poor we are offensively — every goal we concede will be dissected to death because when you can’t score, every defensive error that leads to a goal against seems like the most egregious of mistakes because the stakes are so high.

Until we figure out a way to score, our defensive acumen is largely irrelevant. Kenny’s system is allowing us to create chances — Brady had one clear chance to be sure that he skied, and realistically Collins could have done better with at least one of his shots. At some point the players themselves need to actually execute.

At this point I’d agree with a 3-5-2 experiment. Won’t happen but it really does make sense given our personnel.

[the 12 th man]

Work harder to stop the cross and then Duffy just has to head that ball out for a corner ~ ~ Thats my two cents !

At 4.06 in the highlights video post,that hand ball

[tetsujin1979]

The video analysis was very good by tetsujin, it is a team mistake. Every little error ended up in 0-1. If it was a VAR there, they would have called it a foul by Moore.
Spain got two penalties without VAR, soft calls , very.

I felt the same on Knight, was just coming and this will make him a better player, Bale pass was vgood

There's no foul by Moore, Duffy collides with Long and knocks him to the ground.

[paul_oshea]

I always love a good breakdown of a goal but the depth of analysis here is exceptional, and in my view an indication of how poor we are offensively — every goal we concede will be dissected to death because when you can’t score, every defensive error that leads to a goal against seems like the most egregious of mistakes because the stakes are so high.

Until we figure out a way to score, our defensive acumen is largely irrelevant. Kenny’s system is allowing us to create chances — Brady had one clear chance to be sure that he skied, and realistically Collins could have done better with at least one of his shots. At some point the players themselves need to actually execute.

At this point I’d agree with a 3-5-2 experiment. Won’t happen but it really does make sense given our personnel.

Ya i was reading these post this morning thinking, why is everyone so concerned about the goal and then it hit me, theres so little else to talk about, that the goal becomes the topic of conversation. IF you want to dissect goals, the England game was the one to do, as bad and all as the Wales game was, the tlaking point might only be their goal, but the England game is the one to find the mistakes, there were many for all goals.

[Stuttgart88]

As Neil O'Riordan says, this year's Senior MNT Goal of the Season competition will be fun!