thenn I'm just confused about a kid's song in my native Dutch about a gal named Heidi running a Tiroler chants school in Austria
Gerrit, Ireland spends most of the pre match always talking up the oppostion. It gets us nowhere.
Were a better team now, we should really be putting away weaker teams 2 , 3 , even 4 nill. Thats because of the way we play and the 3 world class players we have.
A crap team is still a crap team no mater what way you want to dress it up. We have to beat these 3 teams.
A couple of good posts from feech and our new Swiss friend.
I am all for positive thinking, but some of the arrogance of our fans on this forum is unbelievable. "we are a much better side" "we've improved since Basel 2003", "Its a poor domestic league, therefore they are shoite"
I remember an identical thread for the last game in basel and perhaps even the one in 2003. and I said the same then.............
Where do you get this confidence from? The game in paris apart, we have done absoloutely nothing in this group so far but play very very average, in fact let alone the Swiss & French being conccerned, I doubt the Cypriots are fearing us coming to them and probably fancy their chances at home.
The game against the Faroes was another example of a very poor performance. Im not interested in hearing tales of woe due to the end of a long hard season, the poor pitch or weather conditions. It was shockingly bad and but for a soft penalty & deflected effort...who knows, they had the better chances. I doubt the Swiss or French were calling for urgent tactics meetings to discuss how they were going to overcome the mighty Irish.
I think we all know it. The remaining 3 games will be low scoring, nail biting games, where we will inevitably play poorly at times, Its going to be fingers crossed that we do enough,
The crap team, is that us?...........probably.Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Last edited by Junior; 13/06/2005 at 11:45 AM.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
Well said !my thoughts exactly.We are a very average team apart form 3 to 4 players and they were sh*te last time out.Blame what you like,pitch weather,timing etc etc and none of the three teams will be scared of us.Its all in our own hands and if we are good enough we will win all three games but as always it will be a struggle.
Weird that the 3 quotes you posted are from me. I'm certainly not arrogant.
"we're a much better side" - We are. That is not arrogance.
"we've improved since Basel 2003" - Of course we have. A lot.
""Its a poor domestic league, therefore they are shoite." Well I never called them shíte but if most of our back 5 played in the Eircom league I wouldn't be rating our chances very highly.
So far I have given teams the respect they deserve, sometimes too much of it.I remember an identical thread for the last game in basel and perhaps even the one in 2003. and I said the same then.............
I was trying to build up Israel before any of us seen them play:
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=15266
I would have snatched a point from Basel before we played them without a shadow of a doubt too.
This is the first time I have played down our opposition in a long, long time (if ever) and the reason I am doing it is because people think they are better than they are.
We were always crap away so I wouldn't take anything from that. We have been convincing enough at home anyway. We played well against Cyprus, did the job against the Faroes after a tough match in Paris and played well against Israel.
It wasn't intentional that I picked your 3 quotes, they were just some of those that I could remember without trawling back through the thread. The arrogance comment was meant in a more general way - however I stand by it.
You obviously stand by your points, but I still for the life of me cannot see how you think we are a better side than the Swiss, based on the current and last campaigns we are not, and we've proved as much on the pitch where it counts.
I don't see any material improvement on the last qualifying campaign, admittedly the performance in basel was very very poor, however I still haven't really seen anything (Paris apart) that fills me with the confidence or superiority that you feel.
I don't know the Swiss team in depth (nor have I the time to quickly refresh my knowledge), and I don't want to knock the EL. However, whilst the swiss league is not one of the top 3 or 4 in europe it still has teams who compete in the latter stages of european competitions (by that I mean past prelim qualfication) So far the EL hasn't had this and to compare the 2 is probably over the top. Celtic know only too well how not to underestimate for example Basel.
I hope Im wrong, but as I said already we've had this type of thread twice before and both times we've been bitten hard on the ass. I just don't see where you get this confidence in our team - it certainly isn't based on performances and thats what counts.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
Am I wrong, or did Ireland lose there too, 4-2 ?
Because as I was saying, we are improving, that is to say IMPROVING IN PROGRESS...Interesting post.
How come Switzerland found it so hard to beat Cyprus at home? Or was that just a blip?
I mean, there are SIGNS which make me think in Sept/Oct we will be better then now:
- Those youth I already mentioned. You know Ziegler and Senderos. I am sure Barnetta (Leverkusen), Degen (Bor. Dortmund) and Rochat (Rennes) will do well and get quite a lot of playing time next season. Vonlanthen, it depends on where he is going to play for. And Margairaz has already established in Zurich.
And others (Baykal, Behrami, Lichtsteiner, Zambrella, etc...) are "pushing"... => more competition for starting eleven => more competition "should" increase our perfomances... should...
- Murat and Hakan Yakin and Marco Streller didn't play against Cyprus, they will in September and October. (Marco Streller is our 2nd best striker and before injury he was in Stuttgart starting eleven).
- Cabanas is back on track after a very bad 2004
- This summer some swiss (Rochat, Lichtsteiner, Behrami, Gygax, Spycher, Schwegler, Huggel perhaps) are going to top leagues clubs and should get stronger... should...
- Hakan will play in Berne, "crappy swiss league", but he will get time to play. That's just what we need: When fit, Hakan can be deadly and very important for our strikers.
- even Henchoz could be again a good alternative, if he finds a good club to play for.
Those are predictions+hopes+facts, and all this together make me feel much more confident then 1 year before.
Then, this Cyprus game. Yes, we didn't play well at all. Reasons? I don't know, perhaps a bad night, perhaps we are crap, perhaps the missing players.. or perhaps because we had a tough game 3 before in Paris? A bit of everything I would say.
Then, in the end every game has its on story, otherwise what should people think about you after 45 min. in the Fär Oer game (0:0) ??
While Swiss players are generally better and more competitives than 2-3 ago, the league is a bit weaker. Or, at least less attractive. The reason is IMO mainly due to the loss (bankruptcy and relegation) of tradionally strong clubs such as Servette, Lausanne, Sion, Lugano or Lucerne (Unfortunately, other have suffered/are suffering from financial problems, ie. Grasshoppers, NE Xamax, etc...)
They were replaced by teams with less appeal, such as Thun, Schaffhausen or Yverdon..
In fact, Servette, Lugano, Sion, etc.. had some appeal and managed some good purchases abroad(not stars, just good ones). Yverdon or Thun don't have the same tradition and appeal (and money...).
But I am sure some of these old teams will be back quite soon.
Then, the league itself, with only 10 teams, is repetitive. I think many fans would like to see at least a 12/14-teams league. But those Federation's burocrats think is better with only 10 ..
Last season the Swiss teams were getting knocked out by teams on par with the Eircom league. The Swiss league is still better than the EL but as I said, it is on par with the SPL minus the Old Firm atm.
Forgetting the last campaign as Kerr took over a team and had no time to change it. This campaign I've been happy with. Israel away we controlled the game, something neither France or Switzerland did. France away we played well. Switzerland away we were crap admittedly. Israel home we were very good. I'm confident, although not arrogant. I certainly wouldn't be at all suprised if we fail to beat Switzerland but we really should.
Or yours after 72 mins
Point taken though.
But for fear of sounding daft, our result in Moscow was weird. We gave them all 4 goals (even scoring one of them for them). If we hadn't conceded straight from the kick off after getting it back to 2-1 there was no way we weren't going to equalise the way the game was going. Weird game.
If Harte hadn't hit the bar after 10 minutes or Duff hadn't gone off injured after 15 minutes who knows what would have happened us in that campaign?
I've no doubt the Swiss are a decent side. I just think that we're better, or at least we should be. But we'll still have to play our very best to get the win and we'll also have to have our best players out there because the cupboard is quite bare in certain positions.
Really?
How come Vaduz who play in the Swiss Second Division knocked out Longford last season then?
Work's Bogey
They are of course not world beaters, but have been good enough to beat Ireland twice in the last 2 years.
Beat anyone at home?
Like Israel?
Work's Bogey
Well, Wil were knocked out by Slovakian team, Banská Bystrica, in the 2nd qualifying round. Servette lost to Újpest twice in the 2nd qualifying round of the UEFA cup also.
True but you are being disingenuous - Wil as cup holders were in the Second Division and could not play in Wil as their stadium did not meet regulations.
Servette have gone bankrupt since then so they were obviously not in a utopian position.
I notice no one mentions Basel's draws against Inter Milan and Schalke 04, not to mention Lille, all top teams in Europe's top leagues.
Young Boys lost to Red Star Belgrade which is no shame.
Work's Bogey
Hi,
I didn't see that match so I can't really comment - guess it was just one of those days.
Work's Bogey
Shels also got decent results against Hajduk Split, Depor, Lille. Doesn't mean the Eircom league is top quality.
2 years ago they were good we were bad. They were playing at their best, we were playing at our worst. just look back at our team, duffer up front, killer on the wing, connolly upfront AFAIK need i go on ?
yeah beat ANYONE. the game against Israel was a FREAK. If Robbie ever gets injured again we know what do do - Elliott on. Its a whole different game now.
I remember watching the game between Ireland and Switzerland in Lansdowne Road, McCarthy's last. I was in the car with my mates beforehand, stuck in traffic near Bird Avenue, and we were all waiting for the line-up. "He has to put Duff on the left, he absolutely has to," said a mate of mine. Tommy Butler at that stage was getting his game ahead of Kilbane at Sunderland but McCarthy still couldn't get over this notion of having Kilbane on the left and Duff up front. Duff had been proved, painfully so, to be a poor striker and the World Cup had shown him to be a world-class winger. Surely, something had to give.
Nope. Out came the line-up and it was unchanged from Moscow, more or less. I liked McCarthy but that was stubborness for the sake of being stubborn. He picked his team because it was his team, not the best one, and I could honestly see no reason for it, much as I liked him.
The Swiss were terrible that day and had absolutely nothing going for them but when they scored, such was the state of our team, it wasn't a surprise. When they scored again, it wasn't a surprise either.
McCarthy finally had the epiphany: Duff was moved out to the left wing after half an hour. HALF AN HOUR! The logical response was to subsitute Kilbane and bring on a striker. But no, McCarthy put Kilbane up front or just behind Keane or in some bizarre five-man midfield inside Duff. Kilbane didn't seem to have a clue and nor did McCarthy or anyone else. Keane was on his own upfront (or was he beside Kilbane?) and the Swiss had him in their pocket.
Kilbane was substituted after an hour and the cheer that went up...I never thought I'd hear that at an Irish soccer game. Kilbane didn't deserve that but he can only play where he's told and can only play as well as he can, which makes McCarthy responsible.
The team that got beat in Dublin was a mismanaged mental wreck of a team. McCarthy had lost his managerial marbles and the team was exposed for what it had been - utterly reliant on Roy Keane with players not doing the business getting by as a result.
We can beat the Swiss this time around. Kerr has made some mistakes but this team is not the team that got beat in Dublin. I generally think we're better organised and better managed.
that first 20 minutes against israel, some of the windscreen wiper-like interchange play between reid and duff across midfield was a glimpse of what ireland could be, fluid and purposeful. robbie had the skinning of israel's backs with that type of ball coming over his shoulder.
I'm the same as Donal, I nearly died when I saw that starting line up. The writing was on the wall from there.
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