Lets put the Swiss team into perspective

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 12:01 PM

I posted this on another forum so might aswell post it here:

The Swiss aren't that great. If we play like we did against Israel or France we'll destroy them.

Team vs Faroes:
Pascal Zuberbuhler (Basel)
Philipp Degen (Basel)
Patrick Muller (Basel)
Alain Rochat (Bern Young Boys)
Ludovic Magnin (Werder Bremen - joined Stuttgart this summer)
Tranquillo Barnetta (Hanover)
Johann Vogel (PSV)
Raphael Wicky (Hamburg)
Alexander Frei (Rennes)
Daniel Gygax (FC Zurich)
Johan Vonlanthen (PSV - loan to Brescia)

Basel are poor. Hearts beat them 2-1 in Basle. Young Boys and Zurich are worse. So thats 5 players from the above lineup playing for crap teams in a crap league.

Magnin only started 16 games for Werder in the league, mostly in midfield (I think he plays left back for Swiss?).

Vonlanthen couldn't even make the PSV bench for a lot, if not most games, so was loaned out to Brescia in January. He made just 3 sub appearances for the club with a total of 25 minutes football.

Frei is top class, Vogel very good too. Hakan Yakin can't get a club. His brother Murat is playing crap. Henchoz got let go today by Celtic. Bernt Haas isn't good enough for West Brom.

We're much better than these. The only real tough match left is France. Anything other than a win against the other 2 would be a disaster.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/06/2005, 12:15 PM

They have Senderos who missed the game against Faeroes through injury. He's been impressive for Arsenal.

But point taken & mainly agreed. However, a bit like us in 2000/2001 I think they're a better unit that the individual parts would suggest. They also threatened England in Euro 2004 from crosses & set-pieces, where we've been vulnerable in last 2 games.

But remember, they only beat Cyprus in 90th minute at home. I think they may struggle to beat a confident Israel & even a win in Cyprus isn't guaranteed for them.

No question, if we have our best players available & we're up for it (how could we not be?) we've got to be able to beat them.

**shedite** · 09/06/2005, 12:19 PM

If we're thinkin like that, then Zidane, Henry and Thuram of Real Madrid, Arsenal and Juventus should destroy Cunningham, Reid and Elliott of Birmingham, Notts Forest and Sunderland

**concanta** · 09/06/2005, 12:19 PM

Agree with all the points - but somehow they manage to fight and gel for big games and have a team spirit which is strong - personally I think this group could be decided on dropping points to the bottom 2 and I think if we have ALL players available we will win the last 3 games - but i am optimistic

but its true to say we have the best team outta this group and i think in the end it will tell

**fergalr** · 09/06/2005, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

The Swiss aren't that great.

Great post and all points well made.

Also, we can field an eleven from one of the top 5 Euro leagues - same can't be said of the Swiss.

Also we're ranked 15, they are 45th.

Just hope our management display and instill the correct level of self-belief and confidence before each of our final three games in this group.

**tetsujin1979** · 09/06/2005, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by shedite

If we're thinkin like that, then Zidane, Henry and Thuram of Real Madrid, Arsenal and Juventus should destroy Cunningham, Reid and Elliott of Birmingham, Notts Forest and Sunderland

Zidane and Thuram are retired.
Reid plays for Spurs now.
Sunderland are in the Premiership.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/06/2005, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by shedite

If we're thinkin like that, then Zidane, Henry and Thuram of Real Madrid, Arsenal and Juventus should destroy Cunningham, Reid and Elliott of Birmingham, Notts Forest and Sunderland

It might have escaped your attention but Zidane has retired from playing for France. I think Thuram has too.

I think Andy Reid might have moved from Forest to a Premiership team

[Edit: point taken - he was still at Forest in October]

Our own Richie Dunne was MOTM at Highbury against Henry in Feb or March.

**Tired&Emotional** · 09/06/2005, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by shedite

If we're thinkin like that, then Zidane, Henry and Thuram of Real Madrid, Arsenal and Juventus should destroy Cunningham, Reid and Elliott of Birmingham, Notts Forest and Sunderland

That post must have got lost over the Atlantic

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by shedite

If we're thinkin like that, then Zidane, Henry and Thuram of Real Madrid, Arsenal and Juventus should destroy Cunningham, Reid and Elliott of Birmingham, Notts Forest and Sunderland

I don't know how you see it like that. The only players I judged by their clubs where those in the Swiss league. C'mon, the Swiss league is like the SPL without the Old Firm.

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Isn't the best way of comparing the two to look at recent results rather than try and compare players in different positions in different leagues? I mean, by that reckoning, Spain should be champions of everything and no hopers like Greece shouldn't bother entering competitions...

I agree. And imo, Israel are on par with them. People were saying we should beat the Faroes 4-0 because they are part timers. I'm saying we shouldn't be giving the Swiss as much respect as the fans are as half their team plays in the Swiss league.

**gustavo** · 09/06/2005, 1:04 PM

presumably the answer to your sig is that they are all top of their groups eirebhoy sorry if some1 answered it already!

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by gustavo

presumably the answer to your sig is that they are all top of their groups eirebhoy sorry if some1 answered it already!

Aye, feels good.

**Junior** · 09/06/2005, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by fergalr

Great post and all points well made.

Also, we can field an eleven from one of the top 5 Euro leagues - same can't be said of the Swiss.

Also we're ranked 15, they are 45th.

As was the case in our last 3 competitive games versus the Swiss - D1 L2.

We should be confident yes, arrogant no, none of our performances in this campaign bar France have been anything but average so far.

**drinkfeckarse** · 09/06/2005, 1:10 PM

Sure they could say the same thing about our team. Just reverse it as if this was a Swiss fan on an equivalent message board. Going on last nights team.

Given (Newcastle)-good keeper but hopeless with penalties

Carr (Newcastle)- average at best, never the same player since a serious knee injury.

Cunningham (Birmingham)- solid enough, nothing special but good organisational skills, ageing now.

O' Shea (Man Utd)- not a regular for his club and sloppy at times.

Harte (Levante)- a danger at set pieces but lambasted by his own fans at times for a distinct lack of pace.

A Reid (Spurs)- plenty of potential but not at his best playing in an unfamiliar wide right role.

R Keane (Man Utd)- the team leader but ageing now.

K Kilbane (Everton)- Good on his day from the central spot but those days are few and far between.

D Duff (Chelsea)- A class act but sometimes complacent.

C Morrison (Birmingham)- Not a regular for his club, works hard.

S Elliott (Sunderland)- unproven but plenty of potential.

See what I mean. The Swiss in my eyes are very similar to us- not too many world class players but plenty of honest pro's who work hard for each other.

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Junior

As was the case in our last 3 competitive games versus the Swiss - D1 L2.

I'm not even going to think about the away game as we're crap away but things have changed since the home game. They've got worse while we've got better. They have no Cabanas, Celestini, Stiel, Chapuisat and the 2 Yakin brothers are nothing like they used to be. Our team the last time was:

--------Given
Kelly, Cunningham, Breen, Harte
Holland, Kinsella, Healy, Kilbane,
------Duff, Keane.

Our current team has 8 changes from that. New LB, RB, CB, RM, CM, CM, LM, FC.

See what I mean. The Swiss in my eyes are very similar to us- not too many world class players but plenty of honest pro's who work hard for each other.

No.

Seriously though, I was telling the truth. I wasn't picking players faults.

**eirebhoy** · 09/06/2005, 1:24 PM

Can I just say. I rarely judge teams on their individual players. Sure it was only a couple of years ago I thought we were better than England (I wouldn't say that now though

). I'm hardly saying we're going to win because our players are much better. I just feel that Israel are just as good as Switzerland and people give the Swiss too much respect because of past results.

I seen Switzerland play now 4 times in this group (Israel away, France away, Faroes away, Ireland home). If Israel actually played football against us people would see the real Israel. They destroyed Switzerland and really made it look easy.

But lets be serious. So many people judge players playing in the SPL. The Swiss league is worse than the SPL.

**Slash/ED** · 09/06/2005, 1:29 PM

I've said this all along, the Swiss are not a good side. We seem to have built them into world beaters, mainly because we were so hopelessly poor we made them look good, when they clearly are nothing even close to that. If we can't beat these at home we can give up.

**colster** · 09/06/2005, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

I've said this all along, the Swiss are not a good side. We seem to have built them into world beaters, mainly because we were so hopelessly poor we made them look good, when they clearly are nothing even close to that. If we can't beat these at home we can give up.

The thing is the Swiss may not be a good side but are we that much better?
I don't think so. We'll have trouble beating them.

**dr_peepee** · 09/06/2005, 1:44 PM

To use the cliche, Stats don't win games.

I do see what your trying to say though, but the same logic failed to deliver twice against the Isreali's.

But at the end of the day it's eleven profesional footballers against eleven and as last saturday showing highlighted, anything is possible over the 90 minutes. That game took allot from me as a fan and an optimist. We have to make our own luck. I'm tired of too many underwhelming performances. The French draw aside I've been underwhelmed.

**mjpcc** · 09/06/2005, 1:48 PM

Everybody get their blinkers out.

Sure, we are the best team in the group. Except our results do not bear this out in any way. Our World ranking is inaccurate and the true reflection is our seeding in Euro 2008 where we will be in pool D or C at best.

We have to win 3 games on the trot to be sure of qualifying and nothing would make me happier but I've been so disappointed by our performances in just about every game in this group and Euro 2004 that I think it will be a major miracle if we top the group and a minor miracle if we come second.