Missing the bigger picture - is Kerr to blame?

[jimbob117]

I think the only bad decision Kerr made was bringing Reid off. At the time i assumed Reid was injured as seem to be running out of pace.

I think he should have substituted Holland for Doherty.

Why?? A Reid didnt play well, and Holland was having a good game. Kilbane and Duff were doing playing down the wings and did a lot more than reid the whole game.

[glasgabhainn]

All this talk of frustration. This is the Irish soccer team we are talking about. Have we ever qualified for a major championship with any breathing space? Have we ever raced through a qualifying group without breaking sweat, casting aside supposedly lesser sides? After all the near misses and late goals and playoff heartbreaks, should we not be used to this kind of "drama"? should we not be accustomed to having to eke out victories in places like Cyprus and perform gallantly every September in Landsdowne? Should it not be second nature at this stage to glance nervously at the remaining fixture lists and start querying such remote possibilities as the Cypriots doing the Swiss?

Last night we were unlucky, refereeing and comical keeping aside (seriously was Awat any worse that Vitor Baia in the UEFA Cup final...), perhaps more attacking gusto after Robbie went off might have led to a third goal.

We'll go to the Faroes and battle for a victory and then recharge all summer for a glorious encounter with the French. Because at the end of the day, it wouldn't be right for us to be comfortable in qualifying.

Here's to the remaining games and the elevated blood pressure which will accompany them....

[Don Vito]

I dont think Kerr should be out.. but im seriously fustrated with the man

Fully agreed Jolly, Kerr is the manager and as the manager he has to take responsibility for the results the team produce. I don't care what people say about the terrible refereeing, the headed goal and the penalty, at the end of the day we are two and a half years into Kerr's reign and we are still without a meaningful victory. Quite simply this isn't good enough. As things stand we have to win on of our games against France or Switzerland and draw the other, on our recent record I can't see that happening. Besides if you let a 2-0 lead against a team ranked 50th in the world I'm not sure if you deserve a place in Germany. I think its a little early to be calling for Kerr's head at this stage but if we fail to grab a playoff spot he position will come under serious pressure, during Mick's time we never failed to make the playoffs.

On the plus side I thought some of our play was the best we've played under Kerr. I just wish we had the French or the Swiss on Wednesday to get that result out of our system.

[Curtains]

I just wish we had the French or the Swiss on Wednesday to get that result out of our system.

Thats the best thing ive read today on this board. If we had the swiss or the french on wedensday night we absolutely kill them. We would be so frustrated wed take it out on them!! Now weve just got the faroes instead!! Although lets not get carried away with the whole get rid of brian kerr. Last night was a freak incident!!

[Slash/ED]

what? ? ... 4 or 5 of the best players to ever play in an ireland shirt are in Kerr's first XI - Duff, Roy Keane, Given, Kilbane and maybe Robbie

what the ****? is that some sort of joke?

I also said it at the time, Kavanagh came on for Keane, we could well throw this away now. It was so obvious to everyone in the ground. Look at the first 25 minutes...

We've scored twice, we've had a blatant penalty not given and a goal (rightly) disallowed, after Morrison should have scored. All in 25 minutes. We were destroying them, and the reason is simply, we're a better side. Israel are NOT a good team. We're attacking constantly, and it's a matter of how many at this stage.

Then the Kerr factor kicks in. Keanes injured, he's got strikers on the bench, who does he bring on? Kavanagh. Our record goal scorer is brought off and replaced by a hard working mid fielder. We switch to essentially a 4-5-1 with Duff up front (In reality, a 4-4-1, as Duff is a f'n useless striker and is never, ever effective up there at all, and never, ever, has been), we start to fall back and big suprise, Israel score twice.

Thank you Brian Kerr.

Second half, with around 30 minutes to go, he puts the bleedin' cherry on the cake of incompentency by subbing off our most creative player on the night and bringing on Doherty. That is bloody sunday league stuff. He then misses two sitters, who saw that coming? Did anyone genuinley believe when Doherty came on that he'd get a goal for us, or he'd do something for us? He's a central defender who can't make the Norwich bench, he's not an international forward, the odd goal in Euro 2004 qualifying does not cover that up. Doherty should not have come on and if we were withdrawing a winger, Kilbane should have come off not Reid. We needed quality, not workrate, heart commitment and all of that, that doesn't open defences.

Then we're going all out for a goal (Mainly as Iarael are sitting in their own box) and under no pressure at all, yet for the entire game we keep a back four until the ref, not the manager, deprives us of that. Elliot should have been on for O'Brien long before the sending off (He was set to come on just before the sending off changed Kerrs mind, that was too late anyway).

Kerr has some good qualities. I like his professionalism and he has great knowledge of the game, but his mind numbing negativity is destroying us. If you're too afraid to attack the worst side of the top teams in this group, you've no chance. Four points dropped to bloody Israel? That is a disgrace.

[liam88]

Not so. We may well believe very similar things, but my advanced years grant me a perspective that you may not yet have. Still, that's life



Good. A lot of people don't though. And some couldn't care less either way. Life isn't all black-and-white absolutism. But we can have this discussion the next time you "buy" me a pint...

Do ya have some kind of a problem with me because from all your replies to my posts on here you seemed distincly p*ssed off with me?

[Plastic Paddy]

No Liam, nothing of the sort. I'm just having one of those days. Our lovely child-substitute cat (sad, I know) has been missing since Friday and what happened last night really didn't help my general state of mind. Your gleaming positivity is either going to inspire me or drive me nuts at a time like this. This morning it drove me nuts. I feel slightly better and more well-intentioned towards you now, you'll be delighted to know.

PP

[liam88]

No Liam, nothing of the sort. I'm just having one of those days. Our lovely child-substitute cat (sad, I know) has been missing since Friday and what happened last night really didn't help my general state of mind. Your gleaming positivity is either going to inspire me or drive me nuts at a time like this. This morning it drove me nuts. I feel slightly better and more well-intentioned towards you now, you'll be delighted to know.

PP

Oh..ok...sorry then.
Hope ya cat turns up mate

[Flea]

The thing that disappoints me most about Kerr is the fact he made his name in the eircom League and bringing on young players...now he ignores both because he is so afraid of messing up.
Stephen Elliott was an option yesterday or even Doherty instead of Kavanagh. I think Graham is a very solid player for Ireland but Kerr was wrong to switch Duff. He was killing Israel from out wide but will always find it difficult against centre halves...he is a small fella after all.

Well said, that is it simply. Kerr go rent a soccer tactics book from your local library.

I think the only bad decision Kerr made was bringing Reid off. At the time i assumed Reid was injured as seem to be running out of pace.

There was no chance Kerr was going to play Elliot instead of Kavanagh.

I think he should have substituted Holland for Doherty.

I have never seen such a lucky team as Israel at Lansdowne.

Reid is too overweight!
The Doc won some good balls.
Holland played well for most of the game, far superior to Kavanagh in tidying up. As for Elliot, why didn't he bring him on for Robbie?

If you want a player to blame don't blame Holland, blame it on the Man Utd wonderkid John O'Shea. Terrible

[Stuttgart88]

Inept refereeing, cheating Israelis, woeful finishing / good goalkeeping and bad luck were all big factors last night.

But, the biggest factor of all was our manager.

Duff has now played upfront on about a dozen occasions for Ireland and has been a waste of space on almost every occasion. The dogs on the street know this by now.

Early in the game Kilbane & Holland were doing very well. I thought Holland in particular was excellent early on.

Duff & Reid were both doing well on the flanks. Although neither had been causing huge damage (even allowing for Reid's pass for the second goal) Duff in particular was taking 2 or 3 Israelis with him everywhere he went.

We're 2 up and cruising. Isreal were crap.

Then Robbie "has" to go off (more on this later).

So what does Kerr do?

He takes our most dangerous & effective player from his best position and moves him up to where he has proven to be crap. Not only is his finishing unreliable - two misses from within a few feet in the second half were classic examples - but more importantly we took away our most potent threat. By taking him off the wings we were almost giving the Israelis a man back because he was being double and triple marked every time.

Not only that, he broke up a midfield pairing that was working perfectly well. I was disappointed to see Kav start on the bench but I bowed to Kerr's judgment. I thought KK & Holland were great. Then Kav comes on and takes 15 mins to get into the game. What a costly 15 minutes.

Then in order to rectify his obvious error Kerr had to take Reid off. As this game went on we really could have used Reid on the pitch.

If he had just replaced Keane with Elliott he'd have been changing like for like. Both play a similar game. I know Kerr doesn't like blooding young players in big games, but we were 2 up and coasting. When will Elliott get a better chance?

Even if he had brought on Doc then fine: I actually thought he played well. Duff could have stayed dangerous and kept the Isrealis concentrating on marking him rather than getting forward. Central midfield wouldn't have had to be changed and Andy Reid could have stayed on for longer.


I don't think it was a defensive substitution as some have suggested - it was just a stupid one. When will the fcuking penny drop with this guy that Duff is a fcuking winger? One of the best in the world. Stephen Elliott is already a better striker than Duff.

Once Kerr moved Duff back out wide we actually played really well. If that game had finished 0-0 I couldn't have faulted Kerr. How we didn't score in the last 30 minutes wasn't his fault. But what happened before half-time - even allowing for the soft penalty, a bad headed goal given away from a marginal free kick decision, a terrible kick by Shay & even worse control by O'Shea - was 100% Kerr's fault.

I'm not calling for his head by any means but I'm totally livid with the guy. He did something similar in Tel Aviv. I actually thought taking Morrisson off and replacing him with Holland made sense. 4-5-1 would have been stronger defensively, on paper anyway. But, what he admitted afterwards was that he brought on Holland and moved Duff upfront. Yes, so far away from the play that we might as well have taken him off. That was bad enough - but doing it again is inexcusable. Cop on Brian, and Chris Hughton too let's not forget. He's the guy with some of the best official coaching qualifications in european football.

Did Robbie have to go off or was it "precautionary"?

[wallis]

In my opinion Brian Kerr should take most of the blame for what happened (not the playacting obviously).We had everything under control. Kilbane was bullying the midfield,supporting Holland, and Duff and Reid were giving us easy passing options. I thought Harte and Duff were having loads of possession and causing the Isrealis all sorts of problems. When RK went off he should have made a straight swop with Elliot, not bring on Kav , move KK to the left and Duff up front. When are we going to realise that Duff is not a centre forward. When you move him to that position there are too many defenders round him for him to find space. He is better picking up the ball in deep positions and attacking the fullback. Once we changed it, we lost the shape and had 15 mins where Israel took the game to us.

Even in the second half, pushing Duff wide and moving KK forward to support morrison would have been a better idea. I lost count of the number of times KK was out on the touchline crossing a ball when he should have been in the box as he was winning almost every header he challenged for.

It was a bad tactical decision but at least we are still in it. Lets make sure we learn some lessons for the France/Swiss games and someone teaches John 'all day' O'Shea that smacking a ball into row Z first time is not a bad idea !

[livehead1]

f*ck this....its ridiculous. people simply reguritate the same slander and stupid remarks in every post on different threads regarding the national team...always something along the line of kerr's negativity (we were still attacking them when they scored their 2 goals, morrisons missed chance is testament to this) and the reid's overweight...please god shut the f*ck up..the man is a good player in is well built, simple as. kerr does have weaknesses, as does every single human being but at the end of the day the same people slating him now are probably the same ones praising him when we beat the czech republic and drew with brazil and france.

[Stuttgart88]

So Livehead, you don't think it was a bad idea to move Duff upfront to where he can cause least damage?

[brine3]

Holland was having a good game.

Yeah, that's right, they beat Romania 2-0 at home.

[thejollyrodger]

Kerr is to blame cos he is the manager... it is as simple as that.

If we won he is god, if not he is a fool.

He made a bad substituion and we were unlucky the way the game went..

We can still do it.. none of the other four teams are really top class tbf

[tonycuna]

Kerr is to blame cos he is the manager... it is as simple as that.
If we won he is god, if not he is a fool.
He made a bad substitution and we were unlucky the way the game went..
We can still do it.. none of the other four teams are really top class tbf

I believe the same thing. I don't want to put blame over BK. When he made the change Kavanagh for Robbie, I said:"ok, it can be a solution".. Then, obviously, after one-two from them, I said:"And now without that forward instead Kav?", but at that moment, with 2-0 up and no one in front of us, it could be ok. They made two shoots-->two goals, c'mon, it's a not a prior matter of BK's decisions. I think, first of all, it's a matter of unluck

[sonofstan]

[QUOTE=Slash/ED]what the ****? is that some sort of joke?

well .... posted my original message after working all night from straight after the game - on reflection - and after some sleep - it was a little wild. Still rate Kilbane though... the jibe about Kerr I take back

I

[Irish Pride]

For the first 27minutes, Kerr got it spot on in the tactics department. We were 3-0 up and hammering them only for Robbies goal to be off-side and for him to go off. So Kerr had a choice to make.......go for striker/striker or go for striker/midfeilder and chance the shape of the team. kerr went for the second and moved the whole team around. Which is when Israel took full advantage and scored from 2 set peices.

Second half we are trying everything to score and israel are trying every trick in the book to time waste. But Kerr takes off Reid for Doc.......Now Kerr has said Ireland cant play the long ball game anymore, we dont have the players........so why bring on Doc to do that?

So Kerr had a choice to make and he made the wrong one but i believe it was a fluke result for israel, they had 2 chances....and scored. Kerr should not be sacked. He is only in the job 2 years and needs time. Everyone was saying He was brilliant when he got us back in the mix for Euro 2004 and brilliant when we had all those friendlys in 2004. We are still undefected, and it is still in our hands. But if we fail to go to Germany......it will be down to the 2 Israel games because we have droped 4 points against them.

Morrison missed sitters and how Duff didnt score with that header was amazing.

And as for O'Shea...........My god was he bad. not just the peno but he passing was horrible. I think he should be droped after that and the defence should be Harte....Cunninghan....O'Brian....Carr/Finnan cause O'Shea needs to kop on to himself and wake up.

I was delighted for Harte,(and for me. i had him to score first at 20/1) he had a good game and i hope that is him back in the squad.

But its still all to play for. If we win the rest of out games we will be going to Germany. Oh, and well done to the fans who sang "Were going to Germany when we went 1-0" i new that would jinx us.

[Xlex]

I was really annoyed that Kerr brought Kavanagh on for Keane, It wasn't about changing the shape of the team, I hoped that that the reason he was doing this was simply to stich Duff up front. I know he's sub-standard there but I thought it retained the shape.

Kav is a decent championship standard player and for all the talk of him captaining Wigan in the premiership I think that all he amounts to is a begger mans Roy Keane.

I'm sitting in the 'brutal defending cost us this game' camp and need not follow up what others have said on this thread. Management cannot be blamed for that...

Judgement on management should always be at the end of the qualifying. No doubt failure will point at the Isreali games and the point in Basle, so far... Success will be despite being unlucky to have such poor luck yesterday...

[zinedineontour]

I was really annoyed that Kerr brought Kavanagh on for Keane, It wasn't about changing the shape of the team, I hoped that that the reason he was doing this was simply to stich Duff up front. I know he's sub-standard there but I thought it retained the shape.

Kav is a decent championship standard player and for all the talk of him captaining Wigan in the premiership I think that all he amounts to is a begger mans Roy Keane.

I'm sitting in the 'brutal defending cost us this game' camp and need not follow up what others have said on this thread. Management cannot be blamed for that...

Judgement on management should always be at the end of the qualifying. No doubt failure will point at the Isreali games and the point in Basle, so far... Success will be despite being unlucky to have such poor luck yesterday...

kavanagh for keane was the only suitable substitution ffs.. so kerr is to blame for the lads missing easy chances, the keeper getting obrien sent off , them getting a free that wasnt for first goal a peno that wasnt for second goal and not giving us three clear pens.. all brians fault .. get a grip you mupppets .. we will win our next four games and top the group