Beecher Networks - Web Development, Hosting & Domains
Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 348

Thread: Perth sacked

  1. #201
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    38,099
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,663
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,893
    Thanked in
    3,197 Posts
    Why would the UEFA money go to P6?

    It would go to Dundalk surely? P6 may own Dundalk, but that doesn't mean they would get paid the UEFA money. Dundalk FC is a separate legal entity.

  2. #202
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Border
    Posts
    4,408
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    648
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    462
    Thanked in
    360 Posts
    UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

  3. #203
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    38,099
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,663
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,893
    Thanked in
    3,197 Posts
    Well that's not what you said originally.

    And taking money out of Dundalk is the exact opposite of investing in the club, so I still would question your suggestion that "P6 can easily absorb this". They don't seem to be putting anything into the club. (Which is their right, of course)

  4. #204
    Seasoned Pro EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,094
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    112
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    280
    Thanked in
    214 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Your picking me up wrong , i have respect for the badges and am often struck at my local junior club at the difference in coaching the kids get from coaches "with badges " who have had some training and dads who are helping out.
    My issue is that at a professional club where qualified coaches are employed as they are at DFC saying the manager has to have a badge to manage is BS.
    What does it achieve?
    If the principle applies at lower levels, why not also at higher levels (where the demands are correspondingly higher)?

    If a club was appointing someone to another technical position eg a Director of Finance, they might already have a highly experienced candidate in their Accounts Dept, who is a whizz at reading a balance sheet etc, but would you really appoint him/her over a Certified/Chartered Acccountant?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ions-szr6k0w8v

  5. #205
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,102
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,339
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,233
    Thanked in
    870 Posts
    FIFA, UEFA, FAI bending rules when it suits...naahhh! Delaney must be the only person on the planet that slogged through the borefest of professional accounting exams and not complete the formality of joining CAI or the like, as if he'd give up the opportunity for pomp and ceremoney. Certified sh!tebag if he is lucky!

    Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders. A sports science grad could have a pro licence by early 20s having never been involved in the game. Cheeky it may be in principle but job titles can mean damn all with FG listed as an assistant. Its often said that assistant coaches are often the brains behind a successful team Shakespeare with Ranieri, Long/Croly. Coaching teams where a member of the team has the top qualification would suffice imo. Such would be common in any industry where things/work gets signed off by someone with seniority. My angle on this is not based on just Dundalk's coaching setup - i'm sure there is no shortage of people who have experienced the clueless chief!?

    Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?

  6. #206
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    38,099
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,663
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,893
    Thanked in
    3,197 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders.
    Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.

    Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?
    Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

    oriel's posts were -

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    50k is a still a big fine whatever way its dressed up, but P6 can easily absorb this, however it might be 50k less invested into the team for 2021.
    There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    Certainly question mark over what they paid, however they would have had to buy out the previous joint owners
    Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    What I meant on absorb, the gross monies due from UEFA will be paid to P6
    That's simply not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.
    P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

    So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 03/12/2020 at 9:43 PM.

  7. #207
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,102
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,339
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,233
    Thanked in
    870 Posts
    I will totally admit the fudging of whatever the P6/DFC financial setup is. Im certainly not comparing to Manchester United just simply on scale but its a great situation to be able to leverage costs on a club and 'investors' have very limited exposure. In our case in hope of a low costbase with a potential high return and maybe grow a brand hence value IF theres are ever the chance of selling again for more. Its obviously been an ongoing concern, how much P6 are spending if at all, certainly not in areas that fans would also like to see. Imo the 2016 EL money is gone, P6 got an unexpected top up this year but are now having to dip in to their own pockets for a while at least. They wont say anything else but are still on the line of this being a long term project.

    I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good. There are examples in relatively recent DFC history where FG (so far) has shown more than others with top football and other relevant qualifications. I think a coaching team where members have the required badges should be sufficient, as is often the case in any industry. pro badge does not always = professional. That said I do accept that if rules are in place even if i disagree, they should be followed. Dispensation options again imo should be available. If there were pro licence courses being run where there is always capacity then grand, strictly apply those rules. It think its a bit harsh to dismiss FGs background in the game as AC Milan summer camp coach. It's still an appointment out of left field but he must have shown somthing aong the line and how the players have responded to him just adds to my thinking on that. If we are seriously struggling next season having also struggled to recruit/resign players I will retract the above. The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/12/2020 at 10:26 PM.

  8. #208
    Seasoned Pro EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,094
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    112
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    280
    Thanked in
    214 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good.
    Maybe so.

    But while I'm not saying it was relevant to DFC appointing Giovagnoli, it is also true that Coaches with all the requisite badges command a higher salary than those without.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.
    JM has many qualities which could make him a great appointment in the right role.

    But if it were me, I wouldn't let him near a first team squad (unless, perhaps, he was reporting to Michael O'Neill?)

  9. Thanks From:


  10. #209
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,102
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,339
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,233
    Thanked in
    870 Posts
    Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.

  11. #210
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    18,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,890
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,310
    Thanked in
    3,368 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.
    Could be your maverick chairman read an article about him on the internet?

  12. #211
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2005
    Location
    At the home of Irish Football
    Posts
    1,163
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    61
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    150
    Thanked in
    103 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :

    "Asked what the new person's exact title would be, Hulsizer said: "Boss. I don't know how else to say it. I don't care if you call him the Pope of football in Dundalk, it doesn't matter. He will be there to boss."

    "Whoever we choose they have to have business skills, football skills, football knowledge, football contacts, business contacts. We need somebody to run the club. I can't do it from the US. We haven't done a great job so far except qualifying for the Europa League."The new man's job will be to run the club. There should be no daily communication between the board of directors and the people running the club in Ireland."It needs to be organised and it's not. That will be his first mission."
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    interesting then to note that the frontrunner for the job is Jim Magilton, who currently is a coach with the IFA and just happens to have a Pro Licence.

    It would be somewhat of a co-incidence if whoever gets the job has a Pro Licence. Even then, unless the person with the licence is actually the main coach and decision maker, then that does not cover the requirements. Though we have seen blind eyes being turned to that sort of thing before.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55228546

  13. #212
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Border
    Posts
    4,408
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    648
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    462
    Thanked in
    360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.


    Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

    oriel's posts were -


    There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.


    Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.


    That's simply not true.


    P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

    So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.
    You obviously have a lot of time on your hands PS, christ almighty. Only reading your comments now.
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

  14. #213
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Border
    Posts
    4,408
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    648
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    462
    Thanked in
    360 Posts
    Good appointment in my view today by Dundalk with Magilton, this is exactly what was required, someone with good links to football all over Ireland, and probably UK. He should improve the set up as it was lacking badly lately, admin and no one local appeared to be in control or to have been tasked with running things. I think GV can learn a lot from him, and hopefully they can work well together.

    Contracts will be JM no 1 task when he starts on Monday, although I've heard he has already told the club that one year deals wont wash (with most).
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

  15. #214
    First Team
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,027
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    249
    Thanked in
    172 Posts
    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.

  16. #215
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Killashee Longford
    Posts
    9,369
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,601
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    629
    Thanked in
    535 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.
    Whos his agent Placid do you know?
    Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?

  17. #216
    First Team Yossarian's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,214
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    297
    Thanked in
    168 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.
    Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.

  18. #217
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Killashee Longford
    Posts
    9,369
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,601
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    629
    Thanked in
    535 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.
    Considering JMs prev managerial credentials whats to stop him ousting PG if things go wrong? Im a bit suspicious of his motives imo.
    Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?

  19. #218
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2005
    Location
    At the home of Irish Football
    Posts
    1,163
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    61
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    150
    Thanked in
    103 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    Wether you agree with them or not, the rules are there to be complied with and these are the rules and regs signed up to by clubs.

    There is no gloating, I am a Dundalk fan, and take no pleasure in highlighting such issues. However, these 'liberal' interpretation of the rules by the FAI have been going on for years.

    So have the FAI finally started to apply the requirements correctly? Are Dundalk being forced to comply or is it yet another game of smoke and mirrors to cover licencing requirements?

    https://extra.ie/2021/03/09/sport/so...-coaching-team

  20. #219
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,102
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,339
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,233
    Thanked in
    870 Posts
    You do like to perch on some high ground and have a good gloat Mr P! It could be the FAI instructing things but I find that a bit strange having had a license granted as surely it would be granted pending certain criteria. Other than that its just another madcap day at Oriel Park - keeps people engaged..........

  21. #220
    Seasoned Pro ger121's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,987
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    257
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    558
    Thanked in
    326 Posts
    They can say what they like in public to appear compliant but we know who will really be picking the team.

Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02/06/2009, 8:13 AM
  2. paul perth
    By RockofGibraltar in forum Longford Town
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21/05/2007, 4:24 AM
  3. Vinny Perth
    By RockofGibraltar in forum Longford Town
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21/03/2005, 9:51 AM
  4. story with vinny perth?
    By Martinho II in forum Longford Town
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 21/01/2005, 4:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •