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Thread: Perth sacked

  1. #201
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Why would the UEFA money go to P6?

    It would go to Dundalk surely? P6 may own Dundalk, but that doesn't mean they would get paid the UEFA money. Dundalk FC is a separate legal entity.

  2. #202
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

  3. #203
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Well that's not what you said originally.

    And taking money out of Dundalk is the exact opposite of investing in the club, so I still would question your suggestion that "P6 can easily absorb this". They don't seem to be putting anything into the club. (Which is their right, of course)

  4. #204
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Your picking me up wrong , i have respect for the badges and am often struck at my local junior club at the difference in coaching the kids get from coaches "with badges " who have had some training and dads who are helping out.
    My issue is that at a professional club where qualified coaches are employed as they are at DFC saying the manager has to have a badge to manage is BS.
    What does it achieve?
    If the principle applies at lower levels, why not also at higher levels (where the demands are correspondingly higher)?

    If a club was appointing someone to another technical position eg a Director of Finance, they might already have a highly experienced candidate in their Accounts Dept, who is a whizz at reading a balance sheet etc, but would you really appoint him/her over a Certified/Chartered Acccountant?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ions-szr6k0w8v

  5. #205
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    FIFA, UEFA, FAI bending rules when it suits...naahhh! Delaney must be the only person on the planet that slogged through the borefest of professional accounting exams and not complete the formality of joining CAI or the like, as if he'd give up the opportunity for pomp and ceremoney. Certified sh!tebag if he is lucky!

    Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders. A sports science grad could have a pro licence by early 20s having never been involved in the game. Cheeky it may be in principle but job titles can mean damn all with FG listed as an assistant. Its often said that assistant coaches are often the brains behind a successful team Shakespeare with Ranieri, Long/Croly. Coaching teams where a member of the team has the top qualification would suffice imo. Such would be common in any industry where things/work gets signed off by someone with seniority. My angle on this is not based on just Dundalk's coaching setup - i'm sure there is no shortage of people who have experienced the clueless chief!?

    Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?

  6. #206
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders.
    Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.

    Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?
    Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

    oriel's posts were -

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    50k is a still a big fine whatever way its dressed up, but P6 can easily absorb this, however it might be 50k less invested into the team for 2021.
    There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    Certainly question mark over what they paid, however they would have had to buy out the previous joint owners
    Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    What I meant on absorb, the gross monies due from UEFA will be paid to P6
    That's simply not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.
    P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

    So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 03/12/2020 at 9:43 PM.

  7. #207
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I will totally admit the fudging of whatever the P6/DFC financial setup is. Im certainly not comparing to Manchester United just simply on scale but its a great situation to be able to leverage costs on a club and 'investors' have very limited exposure. In our case in hope of a low costbase with a potential high return and maybe grow a brand hence value IF theres are ever the chance of selling again for more. Its obviously been an ongoing concern, how much P6 are spending if at all, certainly not in areas that fans would also like to see. Imo the 2016 EL money is gone, P6 got an unexpected top up this year but are now having to dip in to their own pockets for a while at least. They wont say anything else but are still on the line of this being a long term project.

    I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good. There are examples in relatively recent DFC history where FG (so far) has shown more than others with top football and other relevant qualifications. I think a coaching team where members have the required badges should be sufficient, as is often the case in any industry. pro badge does not always = professional. That said I do accept that if rules are in place even if i disagree, they should be followed. Dispensation options again imo should be available. If there were pro licence courses being run where there is always capacity then grand, strictly apply those rules. It think its a bit harsh to dismiss FGs background in the game as AC Milan summer camp coach. It's still an appointment out of left field but he must have shown somthing aong the line and how the players have responded to him just adds to my thinking on that. If we are seriously struggling next season having also struggled to recruit/resign players I will retract the above. The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/12/2020 at 10:26 PM.

  8. #208
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good.
    Maybe so.

    But while I'm not saying it was relevant to DFC appointing Giovagnoli, it is also true that Coaches with all the requisite badges command a higher salary than those without.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.
    JM has many qualities which could make him a great appointment in the right role.

    But if it were me, I wouldn't let him near a first team squad (unless, perhaps, he was reporting to Michael O'Neill?)

  9. #209
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.

  10. #210
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.
    Could be your maverick chairman read an article about him on the internet?

  11. #211
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :

    "Asked what the new person's exact title would be, Hulsizer said: "Boss. I don't know how else to say it. I don't care if you call him the Pope of football in Dundalk, it doesn't matter. He will be there to boss."

    "Whoever we choose they have to have business skills, football skills, football knowledge, football contacts, business contacts. We need somebody to run the club. I can't do it from the US. We haven't done a great job so far except qualifying for the Europa League."The new man's job will be to run the club. There should be no daily communication between the board of directors and the people running the club in Ireland."It needs to be organised and it's not. That will be his first mission."
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    interesting then to note that the frontrunner for the job is Jim Magilton, who currently is a coach with the IFA and just happens to have a Pro Licence.

    It would be somewhat of a co-incidence if whoever gets the job has a Pro Licence. Even then, unless the person with the licence is actually the main coach and decision maker, then that does not cover the requirements. Though we have seen blind eyes being turned to that sort of thing before.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55228546

  12. #212
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.


    Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

    oriel's posts were -


    There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.


    Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.


    That's simply not true.


    P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

    So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.
    You obviously have a lot of time on your hands PS, christ almighty. Only reading your comments now.
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

  13. #213
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Good appointment in my view today by Dundalk with Magilton, this is exactly what was required, someone with good links to football all over Ireland, and probably UK. He should improve the set up as it was lacking badly lately, admin and no one local appeared to be in control or to have been tasked with running things. I think GV can learn a lot from him, and hopefully they can work well together.

    Contracts will be JM no 1 task when he starts on Monday, although I've heard he has already told the club that one year deals wont wash (with most).
    #DundalkFC - 5 titles in 6 years 2014-2019 / FAI CUP Winners 2020

  14. #214
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    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.

  15. #215
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.
    Whos his agent Placid do you know?
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  16. #216
    First Team Yossarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.
    Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.

  17. #217
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.
    Considering JMs prev managerial credentials whats to stop him ousting PG if things go wrong? Im a bit suspicious of his motives imo.
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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