Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

**ifk101** · 19/04/2023, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by John83

You mean this one? (My boldface.) That would seem to be a fairly unreasonable twisting of his meaning. Not that anyone ever does that here.

Context. The context of the thread�s previous posts, the player�s context, and the poster�s bias. Bazunu had completed a season playing in the same division as Portsmouth and the thought was Portsmouth would loan a starting player from the same division to be their academy, third-choice back-up.

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Reading wouldn't be a strong point for you, would it?
This is not what I said.

The use of the word hinting was deliberate. You comment a green tinted frustration, �that we all want to lay claim to being the first to call a player as a genuine international prospect�, and in the same post single out Bazunu�s performance against Armenia and sneer at a YBIG poster�s claim about Bazunu to validate your frustration. And you posted this in a thread titled Gavin Bazunu. The reader�s interpretation of your post is the venting of a green tinted frustration with the inclusion of Bazunu, and with that, hinting he is not a genuine international prospect.

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And John has clarified that other things you've said I said aren't what I said.

See reply to John83 above.

**pineapple stu** · 19/04/2023, 8:22 AM

I think your own bias of reading things into posts that aren't there needs to be recognised here tbh. For example, you ignore the bit in my post where I say "You can see it a lot in the earlier stages of a fair few threads", because that doesn't suit your argument. Not everything on a player's thread is specifically related to that player. We can go off on chatty tangents at times.

The Armenia game is clearly mentioned in the context of a definite Bazunu bias over Kelleher seen by a number of posters. That's a different angle on the discussion to the above. Some of us can distinguish between two different topics when having a discussion.

And why would you not criticise someone who claims a list rates a player third in the Premier even after it's shown that actually, he's third alphabetically?

Anyway, you'll forgive me for being sceptical of the judgement of someone who thinks Buffon at his peak wouldn't stand out in the LSL.

**texidub** · 19/04/2023, 8:38 AM

Would anyone here regard it is as a disaster if either of the two under discussion was picked to play for Ireland? I wouldn't lose much sleep either way, even if I have a preference for Bazunu because of his experience, the fact that he never seems to shirk, and because I believe he has the character to get through any slump in form.

By contrast, Kelleher seems a bit fragile, is untested by comparison, and we have no idea what his character is like because he hasn't been through the wars as Bazunu has this season... and I STILL wouldn't worry if Kelleher was picked ahead of Bazunu.

**third policeman** · 19/04/2023, 12:34 PM

I agree with the core proposition and would be happy with either playing as our first choice, but what exactly is the evidence that Kelleher "is a bit fragile." It's not an observation that you'll find on any LFC forums, but is often alluded to here.

**texidub** · 19/04/2023, 7:04 PM

I'd be contradicting myself if I argued strongly against Kelleher here, 3rd policeman as I don't think there is a huge gulf between the two in terms of ability. It's a 'seems fragile' rather than an 'is fragile', so is little more than a hunch on my part (and is based on Ireland performances only).

**third policeman** · 19/04/2023, 7:47 PM

Fair enough if it's an impression. I think one test of nerve would be the penalty shoot outs where he's looked anything but fragile.

**ontheotherhand** · 19/04/2023, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think it's been civil but definitely biased (on both sides). Certainly way different to the Celtic youngsters thread for sure. But the example I gave, of Kelleher being slated for the two goals against Latvia while little was said about Bazunu's two against Armenia, is definitely there. I think you've been more balanced in general, though I do recall you claiming earlier in the season that he'd had a few great performances when he hadn't had any stand-out games really. I tend to find the bias a bit frustrating. (Not just on this thread; I've given out about green-tinted observations on other threads as well. The Idah one in particular I think)

I think the desperation for good players to come through is definitely part of it alright. I think there's also an element that we all want to lay claim to being the first to call a player as a genuine international prospect, and when we do we pin our colours to that player. You can see it a lot in the earlier stages of a fair few threads. It leads to a bit of blindness.

foot certainly tends to be more reasonable than Twitter; not a high bar granted! I quite like it for that (as I'm sure most of us on here do). Some of the stuff on YBIG can be way over the top on the odd occasion I check, so we've got that going for us too. I think I mentioned before the guy who back in October or something put up a table which showed Bazunu was statistically ranked third best keeper in the Premier League, and wouldn't back down from that even when it was pointed out the list was ranked alphabetically.

Touch wood Kelleher gets a move in the summer though; then next season will be properly interesting.

I think the general consensus was he should have done better with the second but wasn't at fault for the first. It was pretty well analyzed in the Armenia thread. I still wouldn't call either howlers. Superbly finished even if he should have gotten the hand to the 2nd. Kelleher hasn't shown us anything yet to say he would have done better with either and he probably gets slated more (if that's true) because people keep bringing him up as a better option. I probably look for holes in his game more because it gets frustrating to hear people build him up when we don't have much evidence to justify it. Human nature. Guilty as charged. If you need a bit of Bazunu slating for balance you only have to jump over to Saintsweb.com!

As for the "few great performances", I probably should have said "good". He has had them (weirdly often against the stronger teams)...but few has been the more operative word there unfortunately. Whatever way you want to look at it, he's had a bad season. Where he goes from here will be interesting as things aren't rosy in the Southampton garden. All 3 of our young keepers may need a move to play first team football at this point.....

**pineapple stu** · 19/04/2023, 11:37 PM

I think Bazunu was very much at fault for the first in that game; he had no footwork and what should have been a step to the right and a save around the post became a full-stretch save onto the post, and they scored the rebound. Neither were howlers, sure, but they were both weak goalkeeping.

Agree we need to see more of Kelleher - and the frustration you describe is the same I feel when I hear people build Bazunu up! So as you've said before, we're not too far away in our views. The summer transfer window will be interesting, and across lots of different positions (Cannon/Parrott ending their loan spells too of course).

**ontheotherhand** · 20/04/2023, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think Bazunu was very much at fault for the first in that game; he had no footwork and what should have been a step to the right and a save around the post became a full-stretch save onto the post, and they scored the rebound. Neither were howlers, sure, but they were both weak goalkeeping.

Agree we need to see more of Kelleher - and the frustration you describe is the same I feel when I hear people build Bazunu up! So as you've said before, we're not too far away in our views. The summer transfer window will be interesting, and across lots of different positions (Cannon/Parrott ending their loan spells too of course).

We'll have to agree to disagree on that! Maybe the first save he makes could have been better but they didn't score from that, they scored from a pretty spectacular snapshop where he was blinded by Collins. It comes from the fact he couldn't get the ball past the post so I do see where you're coming from. Fine margins either way, it could have gone anywhere but it went right into the path of the Armenian who finished very smartly.

But nitpicking about that isn't me defending his club form of course. It's worrying.

Is Nathan Collins approaching "interesting" for the window? At 21 you'd usually say he's absolutely fine on the bench....but his trajectory was such that it looked like we'd have a first choice EPL centre half. As it stands he looks like their 3rd choice which isn't too bad but wouldn't it be nice if he went back to Burnley and developed an understanding with Cullen.

We could have quite a switcharoo next season in terms of who is considered our best options in each position or at least who is playing at the highest level. Definitely interesting.

**Eirambler** · 20/04/2023, 6:19 AM

I can't see Collins moving again. He has had a few moves in the last couple of years so needs to settle down and fight for his place again. He'll get back in at Wolves before too long. It looks like Bournemouth are going to stay up, so Travers will need a move. Randolph can be Neto's backup so he should be able to find a Championship club based on his form last season. Kelleher as well obviously.

Bazunu should just stay at Southampton, he'll be a good keeper for them in the Championship and if they can bounce straight back up he'll be more ready for the Premier League next time around. This year was a year too soon for him in hindsight, a Championship loan from Man City would have been better, but obviously it was impossible to turn down the opportunity that came his way.

**pineapple stu** · 20/04/2023, 7:08 AM

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

It comes from the fact he couldn't get the ball past the post so I do see where you're coming from. Fine margins either way, it could have gone anywhere but it went right into the path of the Armenian who finished very smartly.

This is it. Similar to the goal at the weekend - he was unlucky that he parried it straight to a guy unmarked on the edge of the six yard box that none of his defenders were aware of, but if a keeper gets the ball safe from a shot, the rebound just doesn't happen. And had he taken a step to the right - which he had plenty of time for - he'd have sent it around the post and safe. Compare that then to the reaction for Kelleher's second against Latvia, when a shot at pace took a unpredictable deflection six yards in front of him

Collins (and Omobamidele, who's in a similar club position lately) will probably be looking to next season to kick on - if either is still largely benched in 12 months I'll be quite disappointed. But yeah, not where we expected them to be now.

**tommy_c12000** · 27/04/2023, 6:15 PM

Dropped today, Southampton have to try something different. Don�t think they can be saved at this stage

**Eirambler** · 27/04/2023, 7:40 PM

Bazunu being dropped means that for the midweek round of Premier League games, which is a full fixture list involving all 20 teams, short of a sub keeper being called into action in the Southampton v Bournemouth game, the total Irish involvement will have been 2 minutes off the bench for Nathan Collins on Tuesday. Not helped by Ferguson and Coleman being injured obviously, but that must surely be the all time low point in terms of Irish involvement in a round of Premier League fixtures.

Hopefully with Ferguson back fit this weekend and, longer term, Egan and Cullen getting promoted, Doherty probably coming back from Spain and maybe one or two more additions, this will finally be the absolute low point before things start to improve for us at this level.

**pixiehead** · 27/04/2023, 7:40 PM

Must be the first time in years that no Irish player started a premier league game in a full 10 game schedule.

**Asterix** · 27/04/2023, 8:19 PM

Southampton are awful, they'll struggle to comeback up next year.

**tetsujin1979** · 27/04/2023, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Yeah, it's happened a few times, and obviously getting more frequent in recent years
However, there hasn't been a full weekend of fixtures(ie ten games) with only one Irish starting player yet, but there was only one starting player in the six games on the weekend of Friday, 15th April 2022 - Nathan Collins for Burnley away to West Ham on Sunday, 17th April
There's been only one player in weekends with nine fixtures twice, and in both cases it was Seamus Coleman for Everton

The weekend of Friday, 10th December 2021 - away to Crystal Palace on Sunday, 12th December
The weekend of Friday, 26th November 2021 - away to Brentford on Sunday, 28th November

Incidentally, if Coleman does play tonight, he'll reach 400 appearances for Everton

That didn't take long, zero Irish starting players in the midweek round of Premier League fixtures

**JR89** · 27/04/2023, 10:25 PM

Who do Southampton fans blame now that they still lost but Bazunu wasn't playing.

**Snapshot** · 28/04/2023, 3:42 AM

Originally Posted by JR89

Who do Southampton fans blame now that they still lost but Bazunu wasn't playing.

Had McCarthy (or whoever) been first choice for Southampton all season and performed as per Bazunu there would have a green-tinted sledge-athon directed at McCarthy and manager Sell�s for persisting with him. Southampton have been thoroughly atrocious and Bazunu has made a solid contribution to that status. He's been the worst EPL goalkeeper this term (imo) and arguably one of the worst ever. Time may be on his side and lessons learned but this season has been underwhelming to say the least.

**Jd2793** · 28/04/2023, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by Snapshot

Had McCarthy (or whoever) been first choice for Southampton all season and performed as per Bazunu there would have a green-tinted sledge-athon directed at McCarthy and manager Sell�s for persisting with him. Southampton have been thoroughly atrocious and Bazunu has made a solid contribution to that status. He's been the worst EPL goalkeeper this term (imo) and arguably one of the worst ever. Time may be on his side and lessons learned but this season has been underwhelming to say the least.

you could remove that "imo" the numbers back up your statement. He was thrown into the deep end this year hopefully he learns from it. still very young so i wont be getting too down on him yet