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  1. #41
    First Team WeAreRovers's Avatar
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    Mark Scanlon was NOT the only applicant for the job. He was one of three internal candidates and came through an interview process. Paranoid guff maybe the currency of football forums but it doesn't help any arguments.

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-39371441.html
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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    RH what I said is what I meant. If a ref, employee, member of an executive, et al is a known supporter of a club it will be drawn attention to by any other club, supporter or whomever, especially if there are conflicting issues. If a decision is made, one way or another then there is the damned if they do, damned if the dont situation eg as mentioned a home town ref 'proving' that they are not biased and getting heat from home fans or of course that the away team sees them as being home town biased. I wasnt focusing on SRFC as much as you would like to think that I was obsessing.

    How individual clubs can be affected by someone whos remit is for the whole league? Well in principle that should happen, but not the way things have been in LoI or FAI over the years. I dont think it needs pointing out as you already know the M.O. of the FAI and that clubs feared sticking the head above the parapet. Fran Gavin in his role was the most often the point man rolled out. I dont think any one club was more or less harshly treated - there was a general contempt.

    If it helps cool the tubes I will use a Dundalk specific possible example. Enda McGuill was elected president of LoI in the late 80's, probably an equivalent of the league director role today. The RoI senior side at that time usually stayed in the Nuremore Hotel and trained in Oriel Park, i'd be pretty sure that there was a fee for the use of Oriel Park. A number of underage internatials were also hosted. For the record I am not suggesting that Enda McGuill had any influence over this decision, I am saying that it could be insinuated IF someone had an agenda. I am not saying that Scanlon will do anything that could be deemed biased, but that he could face such accusations.

    I certainly thought 'this could be interesting' and already it has, so cheers! Not by me alluding anything but by you making the assumption I was! I am a lot less machiavellian than you seem to think RH. I have thoughts on things, like yerself, and will express them, I shall debate opinions to the point of an empasse as you know. But I dont base an opinion on someones credibility, ability, impartiality in a job or judge them in advance based on their favoured football club. If i were to do that or think that everyone was anti 'my club' I'd never get through the day without being angry!

    I may be critical one day but I may also be saying good job!!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 21/07/2020 at 3:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    All I know is third level football have a good Twitter page. Maybe he set that up.

    You're comparing doing some work in third level football to now being LOI Director. Stop.

    Being the only applicant for the job was clearly the reason he got it. Thanks for clarifying he isn't qualified at all for the role.
    So you're now admitting that you're talking about something you know nothing about, great.

    I specifically said similar field as they are not the exact same thing but there are very large and significant areas of crossover. That combined with a masters degree in the area makes him qualified by any stretch of the imagination. He's almost exactly what you'd put on a requirements page for the job.

    Knowledge of the league
    Degree in sports management or similar
    Experience in coordinating large scale sporting competitions

    So far you've demonstrated you don't know what job he did, what qualifications he had, what's involved in the new job. Yet you have an opinion on whether or not he's qualified? I've no idea how you've managed that. I wonder what on earth you could be basing that opinion on so considering what we've established you don't know...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreRovers View Post
    Mark Scanlon was NOT the only applicant for the job. He was one of three internal candidates and came through an interview process. Paranoid guff maybe the currency of football forums but it doesn't help any arguments.

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-39371441.html
    That's a Premium article. Maybe you could paste the relevant bit here. Another journalist tweeted last week that Scanlon was the only applicant for the job. It depends on who you believe I suppose, and who's trying to spin what.

    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
    So you're now admitting that you're talking about something you know nothing about, great.
    I don't care very much for third level football, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
    I specifically said similar field as they are not the exact same thing but there are very large and significant areas of crossover. That combined with a masters degree in the area makes him qualified by any stretch of the imagination. He's almost exactly what you'd put on a requirements page for the job.

    Knowledge of the league
    Degree in sports management or similar
    Experience in coordinating large scale sporting competitions
    Maybe you'd put him on your page. He wouldn't be on mine.

    Large scale competitions? Would you stop. It's third level football / schools v LOI!

    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
    So far you've demonstrated you don't know what job he did, what qualifications he had, what's involved in the new job. Yet you have an opinion on whether or not he's qualified? I've no idea how you've managed that. I wonder what on earth you could be basing that opinion on so considering what we've established you don't know...
    Again you're comparing third level to LOI. I couldn't care what job he did in third level football to be honest. It's irrelevant.

    Whatever way you try to spin it, it was a sham process and sham appointment, but it clearly displays what the FAI continue to think of the LOI.

    It should have been opened to outside applicants.

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    Its amazing how hatred can completely blind people to the facts

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Its amazing how hatred can completely blind people to the facts
    I don't know Scanlon so what are you on about now.

    We've gone from Niall Quinn being widely mentioned as the new LOI Director to Scanlon, who very few know, being appointed.

    Quinn is full of bluff and I wouldn't have much time for him, but at least he'd be at the level you'd be looking at for this role.

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    For the record there are 1,500 primary and secondary schools affiliated with the FAI and there are 111 third level teams from 44 institutions . That's as large scale as it gets.

    You can continue to dismiss this level competitions but like it or not the organisation of them are very similar to organising the LOI, the base structures are the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    I don't know Scanlon so what are you on about now.

    We've gone from Niall Quinn being widely mentioned as the new LOI Director to Scanlon, who very few know, being appointed.

    Quinn is full of bluff and I wouldn't have much time for him, but at least he'd be at the level you'd be looking at for this role.
    We've established you haven't a clue what's involved in any of what you're talking about so your opinion is irrelevant. Bye.

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    And we've established you're clearly biased because Scanlon is a Rovers man.

    Hopefully he's not as biased towards your club in his role.

  10. #50
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    The only Mark Scanlon I know of is the one that cycled in the Tour De France over a decade ago ( the one from Sligo). If his namesake turns out to be as famous as him I will eat my hat!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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  12. #51
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    And we've established you're clearly biased because Scanlon is a Rovers man.

    Hopefully he's not as biased towards your club in his role.
    In fairness though, RH has a point. You say Scanlon was hired purely because he was an internal candidate, but you admit you don't know about his qualifications or previous experience. You've asked what his previous role entails (which makes it hard for you to decide it's not relevant), and "Come on now" is your only response to his Master's Degree.

    There may be valid counter-arguments against Scanlon's appointment, but they're not the ones you've made.

    How have you established RH's bias by the way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    In fairness though, RH has a point. You say Scanlon was hired purely because he was an internal candidate, but you admit you don't know about his qualifications or previous experience. You've asked what his previous role entails (which makes it hard for you to decide it's not relevant), and "Come on now" is your only response to his Master's Degree.

    There may be valid counter-arguments against Scanlon's appointment, but they're not the ones you've made.

    How have you established RH's bias by the way?
    Well he was hired because he was an internal candidate. That's what the FAI limited it to. That's hardly best practice in itself, is it, considering where the FAI are at right now.

    I was aware he came from third level / schools. I know his name from recent years but I don't follow that level of football closely. He has a Sports Management degree, great. Does all that qualify a person to be LOI Director now? Is that the level we see the role as being at?

    It's worrying that the FAI has just thrown it to someone from that background. Realistically, he's not going to be at a level or have the contacts to grow the league.

    Who has actually been hired by the FAI in recent years to help develop the league? John McGuinness was about, doing very little, is he still around? Kieran Crowley does some stuff for the league on social media but he's always been dragged away to international teams. It seems like another appointment to tick a box but the person won't actually bring anything to the league.

    Again, we've gone from Niall Quinn to Scanlon. Why not open it to outside applicants and get someone proper in to do it?

    As for the bias, I doubt very much RH would be fighting Scanlon's corner as much if he wasn't a Rovers man.

  14. #53
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I mean a lot of this is speculation of course, but if you're trying to prove a case, you need it to be watertight. I'm not sure yours is.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Well he was hired because he was an internal candidate. That's what the FAI limited it to. That's hardly best practice in itself, is it, considering where the FAI are at right now.
    On the contrary, a bankrupt organisation reallocating staff rather than hiring more could well make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    I was aware he came from third level / schools. I know his name from recent years but I don't follow that level of football closely. He has a Sports Management degree, great. Does all that qualify a person to be LOI Director now?
    I don't know what exactly the role entails - is it just the admin or does it involve corporate deals, etc - but the thing is you're basically saying he's not suitable (if I read you correctly). Why? Throwing out open questions (which neither he nor the FAI can answer, not being here) isn't really a way to make a case.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    It's worrying that the FAI has just thrown it to someone from that background. Realistically, he's not going to be at a level or have the contacts to grow the league.
    Again though - why not? I think your criticism needs to be more constructive. What contacts would he need but not have, for example?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Who has actually been hired by the FAI in recent years to help develop the league? John McGuinness was about, doing very little, is he still around? Kieran Crowley does some stuff for the league on social media but he's always been dragged away to international teams.
    Judging Scanlon based on other people is a bit harsh, no?

    I mean, you could end up being right - but it still wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do to judge someone based on who else the FAI have hired.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    As for the bias, I doubt very much RH would be fighting Scanlon's corner as much if he wasn't a Rovers man.
    Again, possibly correct, but you've nothing to really back this up with.

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    I think it might be a missed opportunity. What I mean is, his title could have been something like "Senior/Intermediate Football Director" with his remit to include expanding the Provincial League system to cover the entire country and establish some sort of promotion/relegation to the LOI First Division.

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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    I log in expecting to see thousands of words of the floweriest prose dedicated to Franco as he shuffles off into a broom cupboard somewhere til retirement.

    Instead reams of drivel from the usual drivellers

    Forum poison is what it is Bill.

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  18. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    I think it might be a missed opportunity. What I mean is, his title could have been something like "Senior/Intermediate Football Director" with his remit to include expanding the Provincial League system to cover the entire country and establish some sort of promotion/relegation to the LOI First Division.
    Or they could have called him "Magical Money Man Director" and he could have given every club 100 bajillionty Euro

    Just as realistic.

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    Even better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    On the contrary, a bankrupt organisation reallocating staff rather than hiring more could well make sense.
    Whatever the finances, it's wrong to limit an important appointment such as this to internal applicant(s).

    Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I don't know what exactly the role entails - is it just the admin or does it involve corporate deals, etc - but the thing is you're basically saying he's not suitable (if I read you correctly). Why? Throwing out open questions (which neither he nor the FAI can answer, not being here) isn't really a way to make a case.
    I would think it should include corporate deals and establishing/growing the brand of the league. There are other people to look after the admin, Hayes and Gavin. If it was only the admin, what's the point of the title.

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Again though - why not? I think your criticism needs to be more constructive. What contacts would he need but not have, for example?
    Business contacts, the type Quinn would have. I wonder why Quinn appeared to run away from the role, given that he was widely mentioned for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Judging Scanlon based on other people is a bit harsh, no?

    I mean, you could end up being right - but it still wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do to judge someone based on who else the FAI have hired.
    Was just making the general point that other people have been hired to help the LOI, which seemed great at the time, but it didn't make any difference. I wasn't criticising Crowley, just pointing out he's not solely LOI. As for John McGuinness, where is he now?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Whatever the finances, it's wrong to limit an important appointment such as this to internal applicant(s).
    The finances are very important.

    The FAI may have a plan to shed 100 staff, for example. (I'm making numbers up; it's the idea that's important). You don't do that by hiring new people. They may well have a hire freeze at the moment. It's not ideal, but it could well be the best thing for the organisation's finances at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?

    I would think it should include corporate deals and establishing/growing the brand of the league. There are other people to look after the admin, Hayes and Gavin. If it was only the admin, what's the point of the title.

    Business contacts, the type Quinn would have. I wonder why Quinn appeared to run away from the role, given that he was widely mentioned for it.
    So I don't know any of the answers to the above really.

    But if you don't either, then I don't see how you can draw conclusions on Scanlon's suitability for the role. And that's RH's point.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    As for John McGuinness, where is he now?
    I don't see why I care to be honest?

    Again, you can't judge Scanlon based on "Where's John McGuinness"? That doesn't make any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    The finances are very important.

    The FAI may have a plan to shed 100 staff, for example. (I'm making numbers up; it's the idea that's important). You don't do that by hiring new people. They may well have a hire freeze at the moment. It's not ideal, but it could well be the best thing for the organisation's finances at the moment.
    By your theory, Scanlon has only got the job because the FAI are broke. That's probably the case, to be fair. So what should we expect from him in the role then?

    He's in a position he wouldn't be near if the FAI could have gone out and hired someone suitably qualified, so should he be judged at all on his performance or will it be a case of 'it's the best we can do' in the situation given the money that's available?

    Is being better than Fran Gavin a bar for the job?

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    So I don't know any of the answers to the above really.

    But if you don't either, then I don't see how you can draw conclusions on Scanlon's suitability for the role. And that's RH's point.
    Look, if it's admin then he's qualified, any eejit could do that, but his title should not be LOI Director ffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I don't see why I care to be honest?

    Again, you can't judge Scanlon based on "Where's John McGuinness"? That doesn't make any sense.
    Yeah, and sure when the next fella comes along after Scanlon disappears, nobody will ask either where's Scanlon. Isn't that the problem? People come and go and nothing changes in the FAI regarding the league.

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