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Thread: Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

  1. #261
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    More like you just realized I have a point.
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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    I do think it is worth exploring having a 2020/2021 combined season and have a few transfer windows in between. Think thats the only way around it if its not resolved by the summer time.
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Say a match is postponed after 15 minutes of play for something completely unexpected and bizarre. When you play the match again ... do you (a) start the game from the 15th minute or (b) start the game over?
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  4. #264
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    There's 16 Fridays between September 1st to Christmas Day so that would be enough for 1.5 rounds, standalone FAI Cup semi weekend, midweek Cup games and Stephens day Cup final.

    So I'd agree a cut off of if things go past August scrapping it probably makes sense but you never know because if it's not much longer after that would clubs want to finish the round just to get some money in, maybe just have a cup, or if it goes on much longer do you look at combining the seasons incase of a delayed start in 2021?
    Worth noting that in Aug 2002, the last winter season kicked off, which was only two rounds I think, that ran to end Jan of memory, then new summer season started in March, so it can be done.

    However the obvious big difference is, clubs had income and games for 4 months previous up to April in 2002, and were guaranteed of things re-starting in August 2002.

    Actually thats a good quiz question, who were the shortest ever FAI Cup holders, A = Dundalk from April 2002 to Oct 2002, the year of two diff cup finals, think Derry beat Rovers, and to think both were played in Tolka !
    #DundalkFC 5 titles in 6 years 2014/2015/2016/2018/2019

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  6. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    More like you just realized I have a point.
    First we're not American, it's realised.

    Your point is that clubs have planned for a 4 series league as opposed to 3 or 2 as if clubs are throwing the first series because they know they can make it up later. That's just now how it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    Say a match is postponed after 15 minutes of play for something completely unexpected and bizarre. When you play the match again ... do you (a) start the game from the 15th minute or (b) start the game over?
    The answer according to the rules for FIFA World Cup qualifiers is actually (a)

    7.
    Further to the above provision, in the case of a match being abandoned as a
    result of force majeure after it has already kicked off, the following principles
    will apply:
    a) the match shall recommence at the minute at which play was interrupted,
    and with the same scoreline

  7. #266
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    But its only a new season in the scenario you're creating, is that too hard for you to get? You can't set an arbitrary date on making it a new season just because... You still haven't put forward a single argument as to why it would be unfair to count games already played, "it just would" isn't one.

    Especially when the new season starts before the original one would have ended. If Rovers are playing a game on October 23rd be that Shels or someone else why should it be a new season when it's the exact same thing that would have happened in the season as is?



    With the huge caveat of this being the FAI these things tend to have an "in exceptional circumstances....within reason...with agreement of x/y parties" clause (this would also cover events like teams going bust mid season) and judging by the fact they've already come to the agreement to cut out a round already and keep existing fixtures you'd imagine the next step being losing another round but then again you never know.
    Exactly and why things will need to be watertight regardless of what pans out. Ye'd like to think that the FAI are showing some common sense and decisiveness of recent days but not so long ago were not taking the general consensus of clubs on board either. I wasnt aware that agreement has already happened on the shortened season tbh, but there is always the fear of some fly in the ointment, maybe a club breaking rank and rejecting the shortened season after its done. It would be poor form for a club to head in that direction but in a make or break situation they could take their chances. It is the LoI fear of the worst engrained in maybe but it all needs to be handled carefully.

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    [QUOTE=RathfarnhamHoop;2035361] First we're not American, it's realised.


    How do you know I'm not American!
    Your point is that clubs have planned for a 4 series league as opposed to 3 or 2 as if clubs are throwing the first series because they know they can make it up later. That's just now how it happens.


    For the umpteen time, in my opinion, if the league is cut to a couple of series then it is fairer to start again, thats my point.

    The answer according to the rules for FIFA World Cup qualifiers is actually (a)

    7.
    Further to the above provision, in the case of a match being abandoned as a
    result of force majeure after it has already kicked off, the following principles
    will apply:
    a) the match shall recommence at the minute at which play was interrupted,
    and with the same scoreline

    We are not playing FIFA World Cup qualifiers. Our game was called off before and you have to play 60 minutes for a result to stand if I remember right.


    Luckily none of us make the decision but whatever is decided, I assume there will be a vote to decide it??
    Last edited by redobit; 06/04/2020 at 4:11 PM.
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    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

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    Not gonna bother trying reply to that mess. Learn how to quote.

    It's your opinion and that's fine but your opinion is based solely on your club bias that's all

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    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    Clubs are entitled to and should be given the chance to find their best position based on the number of games they were told would happen at the beginning of the season. By taking away a couple of series of games that plan is gone and you have moved the goal posts too far and need to start again, that's all I'm saying.
    What does that even mean though. Did Sligo take things easy at the start because they thought they had 30 games left to sort themselves out? Would things have been different if they'd known it was only 2 series of games?

    Tbh I don't see any rationale for scrapping existing results.

    Either you continue where you left off and shorten the season by scrapping a series of matches, or the whole season just gets scrapped when it becomes clear that there won't be enough time for a meaningful season.

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    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    A different question might be just how many games need to be played for it to be a 'proper' season, and when would the cutoff point be for that.

    It needs 2 full series of games, I'd say. Stopping mid-series just seems wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    What does that even mean though. Did Sligo take things easy at the start because they thought they had 30 games left to sort themselves out? Would things have been different if they'd known it was only 2 series of games?
    Not at all, we were terrible but with 7 players to come in and a new striker we were very optimistic about the rest of the season ... a full season, not half a season. I want to be judged on a season, not part of a season and as Ive said would have no problem running the season out including the first 4 or 5 games if all or the majority of games can be played. If you go 7 odd months without a game then restarting is hardly that crazy a way to go.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

  14. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    A different question might be just how many games need to be played for it to be a 'proper' season, and when would the cutoff point be for that.

    It needs 2 full series of games, I'd say. Stopping mid-series just seems wrong.
    Very true. This could decide it.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Not gonna bother trying reply to that mess. Learn how to quote.

    It's your opinion and that's fine but your opinion is based solely on your club bias that's all
    Would it be fair if they decided to play only the rest of the games in the first series, then drop the last three series of matches and call the season over then?No it wouldn't is the answer, and you know that. It is the same principal for me if they only play 2 series of games.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

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    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    Would it be fair if they decided to play only the rest of the games in the first series, then drop the last three series of matches and call the season over then?No it wouldn't is the answer, and you know that. It is the same principal for me if they only play 2 series of games.
    Yeah that would be fair, not ideal but it would be fair, because it's the same rules for all the teams that's what fair is, it's not giving any team an advantage because at the end of the day winning the first game of the league is as valuable as winning the 5th or the last, that's how a league works.

    They've all already agreed to drop a round so the clubs have already nailed their colours to the mast that dropping rounds to be played is on the table, and dropping games already played isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    Not at all, we were terrible but with 7 players to come in and a new striker we were very optimistic about the rest of the season ... a full season, not half a season. I want to be judged on a season, not part of a season and as Ive said would have no problem running the season out including the first 4 or 5 games if all or the majority of games can be played. If you go 7 odd months without a game then restarting is hardly that crazy a way to go.
    Your whole, and quite frankly ridiculous, argument is based around Sligo having players to come in, the odds of that having happened are the exact same as another club having 7 players injured and losing a striker for the last 4/5 games. So tell me how is that fair but sligo having them at the start of the season isn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Yeah that would be fair, not ideal but it would be fair, because it's the same rules for all the teams that's what fair is, it's not giving any team an advantage because at the end of the day winning the first game of the league is as valuable as winning the 5th or the last, that's how a league works.

    They've all already agreed to drop a round so the clubs have already nailed their colours to the mast that dropping rounds to be played is on the table, and dropping games already played isn't.
    Haven't seen an agreement to drop games? Anyway there is a big difference in dropping 1 series of games and dropping 3 series of games. Apart from being daft and unfair the solicitors would be lining up around the block.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Your whole, and quite frankly ridiculous, argument is based around Sligo having players to come in, the odds of that having happened are the exact same as another club having 7 players injured and losing a striker for the last 4/5 games. So tell me how is that fair but sligo having them at the start of the season isn't?
    Nope, not my whole argument at all. As I keep saying - either restart the season and play the whole season out or if that cant happen and it goes on too long then start the season again.
    Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

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    Quote Originally Posted by redobit View Post
    Haven't seen an agreement to drop games? Anyway there is a big difference in dropping 1 series of games and dropping 3 series of games. Apart from being daft and unfair the solicitors would be lining up around the block.
    It was announced ages ago, same announcement as the June 19th resumption date. All clubs were consulted on those plans and had lots of input.

    Nobody's suggesting dropping 3 rounds except in exceptional circumstances, the point is that if they drop two you seem to think that games to be played are somehow more valuable than games played (based purely on Sligos results may I add) despite that having no basis and logistically not making sense.

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    All Im saying is play the whole season or restart it if this goes mess goes on too long. In a nutshell, thats it clear and simple.
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    Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
    Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!

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    Just to be clear, when I say 'series' I'm talking about each of the sets of 9 games, so 4 series = 36 games. I think others are using the word 'round' to say the same thing.

    Finishing after 27 games wouldn't be unusual here anyway, so is doable. Yes, some teams get the tougher away draws, but that's nothing new.

    Finishing after 18 games is just about legitimate and acceptable to me, as each team did play each other home and away.

    Anything shorter than 18 is not 'proper' in my eyes, and stopping mid series - after 24 or 30 games or whatever, is just wrong.

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