Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Clearly you think the virus is going to magically disappear. Enjoy the return of the LOI on July 20th.

I haven't a clue what's going to happen, that's the point. Definitive statements at this point anything past "we won't be back for a month" are stupid

[The Lilywhites]

I haven't a clue what's going to happen, that's the point. Definitive statements at this point anything past "we won't be back for a month" are stupid

Well no team sport will be back for 10 weeks at least, that's a fact as per government guidelines.

Listening to any of the experts' views on this, it's absolutely clear there won't be any crowds at games this year even if the LOI somehow returns.

Along with that, one of the government advisors has said he doesn't see a way how the 6 nations can go ahead next year as France and England may not be allowed to fly in for games. Do you think football is a special case? UEFA games could soon be knocked on the head too, god knows where that leaves the 4 European clubs budgets if that happens.

Maybe you like the idea of the 5 Premier games being played on a different day throughout the week at the Aviva, but it's a stupid suggestion. The stupidest so far, by far.

Why would clubs like Cork or Harps (examples only) play behind closed doors at their own stadiums, never mind travelling half the country every few days, just to financially ruin themselves?

You seem to be blind to the fact that clubs will go to the wall if BCD goes ahead.

The way some of the people around the league are talking, including some media, you'd swear getting the LOI back ASAP was critical for the survival of the league and that there were million euro contracts at risk if no games are played.

It's the absolute opposite. Not playing until crowds are allowed back will actually ensure supporters have a club to come back to. Along with the health of everyone involved, that should be the main objective of the crisis we're in.

Just because it's a 'new' FAI (full of the same old faces) doesn't mean it's a good FAI. Being better than Delaney is the lowest of bars, and there's always been a lot of spoof about Quinn who is clearly alien to the workings of the LOI judging by his comments during this crisis.

[The Lilywhites]

Mirror Sport understands that clubs have also been briefed on the possibility of using four regional ‘hubs’.

If that is deemed necessary, the Brandywell has been earmarked for use by Derry City, Sligo Rovers and Finn Harps.

Tallaght Stadium would host the Dublin clubs while Waterford, Cork City, Cobh Ramblers and Wexford could play out of the RSC.

One of the midlands grounds or Galway has also been mentioned as another hub for use.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...ility-21986760

[D24Saint]

Champions League and Europa League qualifiers have been kicked back until August at the earliest and will be played as one-off games.

Very interesting idea by UEFA , if the qualifiers go ahead this could benefit our clubs.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Well no team sport will be back for 10 weeks at least, that's a fact as per government guidelines.

I said a month as that's when teams could be allowed back training as per those guidelines.

Listening to any of the experts' views on this, it's absolutely clear there won't be any crowds at games this year even if the LOI somehow returns.

And what difference does that make to my point? My point is literally that ruling stuff out is stupid, as you say in this very sentence it is possible that the league returns.

Along with that, one of the government advisors has said he doesn't see a way how the 6 nations can go ahead next year as France and England may not be allowed to fly in for games. Do you think football is a special case? UEFA games could soon be knocked on the head too, god knows where that leaves the 4 European clubs budgets if that happens.

Yes I think the league may be exempt from the problem of having teams from England and France come over. UEFA games may be cancelled, that's not what we're talking about, that has little to no impact on the domestic league, it could be argued that the only impact UEFA games have is that if they go ahead there's more pressure to start back.

Maybe you like the idea of the 5 Premier games being played on a different day throughout the week at the Aviva, but it's a stupid suggestion. The stupidest so far, by far.

And what exactly is stupid about it, since you're our resident expert here why don't you explain it to us. At least people coming up with these ideas are trying and not just lying down and kicking the issue further down the road.

Why would clubs like Cork or Harps (examples only) play behind closed doors at their own stadiums, never mind travelling half the country every few days, just to financially ruin themselves?

Because that way they don't have to pay back all their sponsors, a financial expert now too are you?

You seem to be blind to the fact that clubs will go to the wall if BCD goes ahead.

You seem blind to the fact that clubs will go to the wall if we sit around and say lets do nothing until Febuary too.

The way some of the people around the league are talking, including some media, you'd swear getting the LOI back ASAP was critical for the survival of the league and that there were million euro contracts at risk if no games are played.

Nobody is talking in those terms, except maybe that one daft article the other day.

It's the absolute opposite. Not playing until crowds are allowed back will actually ensure supporters have a club to come back to. Along with the health of everyone involved, that should be the main objective of the crisis we're in.

Again a financial expert now are we? Know the ins and outs out of every clubs finances do you?

Just because it's a 'new' FAI (full of the same old faces) doesn't mean it's a good FAI. Being better than Delaney is the lowest of bars, and there's always been a lot of spoof about Quinn who is clearly alien to the workings of the LOI judging by his comments during this crisis.

And at least they're trying to do something. Some of their plans may not be feasible on the timescale they're thinking but further down the road they might be feasible and at least they'll have them in place and have time to critique and improve them instead of scrambling it all together last minute if they come up with them now

[Yossarian]

I think it’s good that all options are being looked at and if we are to get the league back up and running there will have to be some creativity and imagination to do it.
I don’t agree with the notion of just cancelling it all until next year. What happens if we are still in the same social distancing scenario and have to go down the closed doors route then? That would mean we’ve wasted a season to do exactly what we may have to do now anyway.
I see the Dutch government have now said that there will be no crowds at games until there is a vaccine which could be two years away. So do we just forget about football until then?
Nobody knows how things are going to pan out in the short to medium term so I see absolutely no reason not too explore all options now.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I think it’s good that all options are being looked at and if we are to get the league back up and running there will have to be some creativity and imagination to do it.
I don’t agree with the notion of just cancelling it all until next year. What happens if we are still in the same social distancing scenario and have to go down the closed doors route then? That would mean we’ve wasted a season to do exactly what we may have to do now anyway.
I see the Dutch government have now said that there will be no crowds at games until there is a vaccine which could be two years away. So do we just forget about football until then?
Nobody knows how things are going to pan out in the short to medium term so I see absolutely no reason not too explore all options now.

Exactly!

I'm not saying football will be back any time soon, but to simply dismiss options and declare that everything should be put off until some arbitrary date down the line just because you can't be bothered putting up with disappointment or whatever it is that irks you about hearing potential ideas that allow football to come back is the only wrong option out there.

[The Lilywhites]

I said a month as that's when teams could be allowed back training as per those guidelines.

No contact training with social distancing, how exciting.

We've been talking about matches here and they're 10 weeks away BCD in the very best case scenario. One of the Irish experts on TV last night said that "even October is very optimistic" for team sports returning.

And what difference does that make to my point? My point is literally that ruling stuff out is stupid, as you say in this very sentence it is possible that the league returns.

Only ruling stupid stuff out. All clubs travelling to Dublin for games? Hubs being set up so that a handful of clubs gain a huge advantage over the others? Stop.

The league may return but for that to happen it will have to pass a vote by clubs, which it won't.

Yes I think the league may be exempt from the problem of having teams from England and France come over. UEFA games may be cancelled, that's not what we're talking about, that has little to no impact on the domestic league, it could be argued that the only impact UEFA games have is that if they go ahead there's more pressure to start back.

It was a point about UEFA games which has been discussed here. We have €800,000 budgeted for because of Europe, Rovers, Derry and Bohs have European money (over €200k) in their budgets, so how would the cancellation of UEFA games - or the Irish government possibly refusing to allow foreign teams to travel here, as was my point - have "little or no impact on the domestic league".

And what exactly is stupid about it, since you're our resident expert here why don't you explain it to us. At least people coming up with these ideas are trying and not just lying down and kicking the issue further down the road.

We can all come up with stupid ideas.

Because that way they don't have to pay back all their sponsors, a financial expert now too are you?

What sponsors? If games aren't being played at clubs' home stadiums and without any supporters, or if games are shown on poor quality one-camera streams, what value are sponsors getting anyway?

Pitchside signage for example, is clubs' individual signage going to be put up and taken down every day at the Aviva or the hubs. Quite a workload in that and adds to the risk of spreading the virus.

What percentage of annual sponsorship is actually paid up by now anyway?

You seem blind to the fact that clubs will go to the wall if we sit around and say lets do nothing until Febuary too.

What clubs are in this boat?

Nobody is talking in those terms, except maybe that one daft article the other day.

Plenty are calling for the return of the league BCD without any discussion or acknowledgement of what financial implications it may have on the majority.

Again a financial expert now are we? Know the ins and outs out of every clubs finances do you?

You have to look after the majority of clubs financially. You do realise the league could run without Dundalk or Rovers, but not without the other 17 clubs, don't you?

Ourselves and Rovers (though they've implemented a 25% salary cut) are unlucky in this as we have the highest outgoings, 52-week contracts on big wages and budgeted for Europe along with healthy average attendances.

The likes of Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Pat's etc will do as they have done with contracts and therefore protected themselves for the longer term.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

No contact training with social distancing, how exciting.

We've been talking about matches here and they're 10 weeks away BCD in the very best case scenario. One of the Irish experts on TV last night said that "even October is very optimistic" for team sports returning.

You may have been talking about matches being played, i was talking about teams being back when i said that.
Every single expert gives their opinion with the caveat that this situation is very fluid, which is my whole point.

Only ruling stupid stuff out. All clubs travelling to Dublin for games? Hubs being set up so that a handful of clubs gain a huge advantage over the others? Stop.

The league may return but for that to happen it will have to pass a vote by clubs, which it won't.

You may nor like it (based off knowing **** all details may I add), doesn't make it stupid. Putting everything off is objectively a stupid idea.

It was a point about UEFA games which has been discussed here. We have €800,000 budgeted for because of Europe, Rovers, Derry and Bohs have European money (over €200k) in their budgets, so how would the cancellation of UEFA games - or the Irish government possibly refusing to allow foreign teams to travel here, as was my point - have "little or no impact on the domestic league".

It impacts those teams budgets, potentially, we don't know what UEFAs plans are, they may give clubs some of the money anyway, WE DONT KNOW, again, my whole point. UEFA could simply draw ties with the caveat of being able to change ties if the governments refuse travel.

What sponsors? If games aren't being played at clubs' home stadiums and without any supporters, or if games are shown on poor quality one-camera streams, what value are sponsors getting anyway?

The companies on the kit to name one. Really? Are you that thick?

Pitchside signage for example, is clubs' individual signage going to be put up and taken down every day at the Aviva or the hubs. Quite a workload in that and adds to the risk of spreading the virus.

What percentage of annual sponsorship is actually paid up by now anyway?

What clubs are in this boat?

The hubs are only one idea.

I don't know you're seemingly the financial expert here you tell us.

Plenty are calling for the return of the league BCD without any discussion or acknowledgement of what financial implications it may have on the majority.

Nope, nobody that matters is, literally all the talk is asking clubs to asses the finances behind it.

You have to look after the majority of clubs financially. You do realise the league could run without Dundalk or Rovers, but not without the other 17 clubs, don't you?

Hows that relevant when all I'm saying is all ideas need to be looked at?

Ourselves and Rovers (though they've implemented a 25% salary cut) are unlucky in this as we have the highest outgoings, 52-week contracts on big wages and budgeted for Europe along with healthy average attendances.

The likes of Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Pat's etc will do as they have done with contracts and therefore protected themselves for the longer term.

They've done that based on government schemes, what if they stop? Contracts are contracts. Clubs cant just rip them up. Government have people penciled in for returning to work in August. Do you really think they'll keep the schemes going after that basically just for sports? That leaves clubs with minimum 2.5 months wages to pay if we do what you say and just cancel the league now. You think they'll survive that?

[The Lilywhites]

You may have been talking about matches being played, i was talking about teams being back when i said that.
Every single expert gives their opinion with the caveat that this situation is very fluid, which is my whole point.

Right. Sorry to tell you but nobody cares about training. Sometimes I think you're on the wind up with your replies.

It impacts those teams budgets, potentially, we don't know what UEFAs plans are, they may give clubs some of the money anyway, WE DONT KNOW, again, my whole point. UEFA could simply draw ties with the caveat of being able to change ties if the governments refuse travel.

You didn't actually make a point. You made a smart remark about no teams from France or England coming here for LOI games.

The companies on the kit to name one. Really? Are you that thick?

Right, so your biggest worry in getting games on at any cost behind closed doors is JD Sports. How much is the deal worth to Rovers? It's a two-year deal, they're hardly going to go after Rovers and demand money back as you've said. Just run it to 2022 instead.

The hubs are only one idea.
I don't know you're seemingly the financial expert here you tell us.

Well you're the one who said clubs will go to the wall if there are no games before February. I only asked what clubs you think are going to go bust in that scenario?

They've done that based on government schemes, what if they stop? Contracts are contracts. Clubs cant just rip them up. Government have people penciled in for returning to work in August. Do you really think they'll keep the schemes going after that basically just for sports? That leaves clubs with minimum 2.5 months wages to pay if we do what you say and just cancel the league now. You think they'll survive that?

You do realise Waterford have laid off their players, don't you? They had been on the wage subsidy scheme from the government since the first week in April but now they're laid off.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Right. Sorry to tell you but nobody cares about training. Sometimes I think you're on the wind up with your replies.

Somehow I think the players care about it. And since there needs to be a 4 week training period before and matches its pretty damn important.

You didn't actually make a point. You made a smart remark about no teams from France or England coming here for LOI games.

I said my whole point as in everything I'm saying is about we don't know whats going to happen so making definitive statements is just outright idiotic.

Right, so your biggest worry in getting games on at any cost behind closed doors is JD Sports. How much is the deal worth to Rovers? It's a two-year deal, they're hardly going to go after Rovers and demand money back as you've said. Just run it to 2022 instead.

You really just don't get it do you? Not a hard concept to grasp that some clubs have got money from sponsors to be on their kit that they cant afford to pay back. Rovers aren't the only club in Ireland you know. Biggest but not only

Well you're the one who said clubs will go to the wall if there are no games before February. I only asked what clubs you think are going to go bust in that scenario?

No you didn't because I only mentioned clubs potentially going bust in my last point so you're literally making up arguments in your own head now

You do realise Waterford have laid off their players, don't you? They had been on the wage subsidy scheme from the government since the first week in April but now they're laid off.

They've temporarily laid them off allowing them to avail of the 350 euro a week COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Once that scheme ends Waterford have an obligation to either start paying them again or cancel their contracts, which also involves money and probably a lot more consequences too.

[The Lilywhites]

Somehow I think the players care about it. And since there needs to be a 4 week training period before and matches its pretty damn important.

6 weeks has been mentioned in places. Still means nothing. Players could be back training and the goalposts on a return may change. We're discussing games only here.

You really just don't get it do you? Not a hard concept to grasp that some clubs have got money from sponsors to be on their kit that they cant afford to pay back. Rovers aren't the only club in Ireland you know. Biggest but not only

Rovers in financial trouble if JD Sports want their money back, are they? Might explain them needing to enforce a 25% pay cut on the players.

No you didn't because I only mentioned clubs potentially going bust in my last point so you're literally making up arguments in your own head now

You said clubs will go bust if there's no football until February.

They've temporarily laid them off allowing them to avail of the 350 euro a week COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment. Once that scheme ends Waterford have an obligation to either start paying them again or cancel their contracts, which also involves money and probably a lot more consequences too.

They've laid off their players and the contracts are effectively cancelled. The Covid-19 unemployment payment is exactly that, for people that have lost their jobs. Waterford have no hold on their players anymore, and have already lost at least 1 player due to that.

They said in their statement they'd "review the situation when conditions improve", i.e. when games return with crowds. I'm sure some players they had will be back with them (a lot of players have very limited options if they want to play LOI football) but the contracts they had are now dead.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

6 weeks has been mentioned in places. Still means nothing. Players could be back training and the goalposts on a return may change. We're discussing games only here.

Oh please do tell me what I'm discussing.....

Rovers in financial trouble if JD Sports want their money back, are they? Might explain them needing to enforce a 25% pay cut on the players.

Again, the opposite of what I said

You said clubs will go bust if there's no football until February.

Yeah but not in reply to you asking who as you claimed.

They've laid off their players and the contracts are effectively cancelled. The Covid-19 unemployment payment is exactly that, for people that have lost their jobs. Waterford have no hold on their players anymore, and have already lost at least 1 player due to that.

Nope, they explicitly said they've temporarily laid them off, laying them off permanently would have much more serious repercussions for the club. You're right in that they have no hold over them but that's about the only correct thing you've said there.

They said in their statement they'd "review the situation when conditions improve", i.e. when games return with crowds. I'm sure some players they had will be back with them (a lot of players have very limited options if they want to play LOI football) but the contracts they had are now dead.

No they're not. You're clearly not as good at law as you are finances and public health.

[The Lilywhites]

Nah, you're definitely on the wind up. Can't be bothered entertaining you anymore.

[The Lilywhites]

The return of the FAI Super Cup, potentially, according to the below article, which also mentions the issues with streaming.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...escue-package/

Good idea for the 4 European clubs if UEFA qualifiers must be played.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Nah, you're definitely on the wind up. Can't be bothered entertaining you anymore.

I'll translate for everyone.

You remembered google exists, Googled the statements of clubs that have temporarily laid off players and googled the conditions needed to claim the Covid payment and realised just how wrong you were

[pineapple stu]

Jesus Christ Rathfarnham - I think you're more right than some here give you credit for, but **** me you really don't help yourself with your attitude.

Try dialing it down a teensy notch maybe?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

As I have said before I will stand behind anything I say when people act as if their unwillingness to simply read that people are brainstorming ideas is more important that peoples jobs, mental health and all round well being. Which like it or not is whats on the line when people throw around comments like "just cancel it all now"

[The Lilywhites]

I'll translate for everyone.

You remembered google exists, Googled the statements of clubs that have temporarily laid off players and googled the conditions needed to claim the Covid payment and realised just how wrong you were

No, I just realised you must be a clown on the wind up because of your stupid replies constantly.

Just to humour you, you'll notice Waterford have "temporarily" in inverted commas, which they've used to say they've followed what Sligo and Pat's have done. (Sligo switched to the wage subsidy scheme, by the way, according to RTE some weeks ago)

Waterford have laid off their players and their contracts are dead. Temporarily is a nothing word in this case. When games resume with crowds (in 2021 at best), they'll go back to the players they want who are still available and will have to offer them new contracts. Hardly rocket science.

The Covid-19 payment is for people that have lost their jobs. It's the same in effect as Jobseekers Benefit/Allowance, except for the fact that it's an increased payment for people who have suddenly lost their job due to the virus. It's been extended beyond mid June now (government haven't said if it will still be €350 per week). It's an unemployment payment, not a subsidy for employers like the one Waterford were using up until this week.

If the pandemic payment is ended, people still out of work will transfer to Jobseekers Benefit. It won't suddenly be on Waterford to pay players their weekly wage again while the LOI is still suspended.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

No, I just realised you must be a clown on the wind up because of your stupid replies constantly.

Just to humour you, you'll notice Waterford have "temporarily" in inverted commas, which they've used to say they've followed what Sligo and Pat's have done. (Sligo switched to the wage subsidy scheme, by the way, according to RTE some weeks ago)

Waterford have laid off their players and their contracts are dead. Temporarily is a nothing word in this case. When games resume with crowds (in 2021 at best), they'll go back to the players they want who are still available and will have to offer them new contracts. Hardly rocket science.

The Covid-19 payment is for people that have lost their jobs. It's the same in effect as Jobseekers Benefit/Allowance, except for the fact that it's an increased payment for people who have suddenly lost their job due to the virus. It's been extended beyond mid June now (government haven't said if it will still be €350 per week). It's an unemployment payment, not a subsidy for employers like the one Waterford were using up until this week.

If the pandemic payment is ended, people still out of work will transfer to Jobseekers Benefit. It won't suddenly be on Waterford to pay players their weekly wage again while the LOI is still suspended.

I actually dont think I can be civil in reply to what you've said. You're just so far wrong you're either on the wind up or, well I wont say the alternative mods .

Look at the pats statement is all I'll say, if they've followed them as you're claiming, well I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3...yment-payment/

https://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=8689

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...trictions.html