Page 71 of 76 FirstFirst ... 21616970717273 ... LastLast
Results 1,401 to 1,420 of 1520

Thread: Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

  1. #1401
    First Team
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,441
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,176
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,656
    Thanked in
    802 Posts
    But you were quick to call him 'Herr' with all that implies - and, believe me, it's much too loud to be a dog whistle - when he spent far more time dealing with the pandemic than any man should have had to while his wife was dying. You have to accept you went too far with that.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

  2. Thanks From:


  3. #1402
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5,316
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,155
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,026
    Thanked in
    699 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    The outcomes of covid aren't die or be grand. It can cause potentially serious long-term lung damage to anyone, particularly asthmatics or obese people .
    1 in 3 on this small island. I get the distrust of politicians and civil servants but I dont get the issue with Hoolihan, and the other experts that are leading the national response to covid-19 and variants. I have seen nothing but excellence, sound if boring and repetitive advice, and when that advice was ignored we suffered! There will be an 'inquest' in to the national response to an unprecedented acute health emergency and it will tell its own tale in due course but there wont be a lot found lacking from a medical lead perspective. This is a precedence that will prepare for future potential healthcare issues to learn from. I will stand by by my previous opines on this all driving positive change in our healthcare system!! I do think that salaries are obscene for some admin in the area but again we shouldnt throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is odd that a head of a govt department earns double of An Taoiseach or the boss of Dr Hoolihan does likewise. They are the things that need fixing and shouldnt be mixed up as an entire service taking the p1ss!

  4. Thanks From:


  5. #1403
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    4,594
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    249
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    689
    Thanked in
    480 Posts
    NPHET a very easy target, and the government is the main offender in painting that target. It was the government who introduced a levels system and then instantly changed it, it was the government that put someone as unfit to just be a TD as Stephen Donnelly in the Health portfolio at a time of medical crisis and it was the government that decided we needed a "meaningful Christmas", which killed over 400 people in one week in February. Meanwhile Tony Hoolohan, whose expertise absolutely trumps the "I was elected, therefore I know what I'm doing" sentiment that gave us Harris, Donnelly and Foley as Ministers, gets called a fascist after he worked to keep the country safe while his wife was dying.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  6. Thanks From:


  7. #1404
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,270
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    136
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    586
    Thanked in
    427 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    But you were quick to call him 'Herr' with all that implies - and, believe me, it's much too loud to be a dog whistle - when he spent far more time dealing with the pandemic than any man should have had to while his wife was dying. You have to accept you went too far with that.
    My using Herr was to imply he was acting like a dictator and that is exactly what things had come to.
    His opinion and no mitigating balancing factors because the weak Government were unwilling to apply logic when it came to obvious errors for fear of appearances.

  8. #1405
    First Team
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,441
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,176
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,656
    Thanked in
    802 Posts
    Stop. Digging. The. Hole. Deeper.

    You called the man a Nazi, but you haven't the courage to use the word. I had a neighbour many years ago who was a child in Germany in the 30s - she could have told you what living under a certain Herr was really like. Reply if you must, withdraw the comment because you should, but that's my last word on this: I'm not going to drag the thread off topic.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

  9. Thanks From:


  10. #1406
    First Team Buller's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Cider
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    85
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    64
    Thanked in
    46 Posts

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Catch and spread it to who? average age for deaths is mid 80's and we are now vaccinating 60 year olds.
    Im not saying we open up everything right now but there is a reason why cases are still at 400-500 for ages but hospital admissions are going down down down, the people likely to die or get really sick are vacinated by now. Yes that doesnt mean everyone is 100% safe but life isnt 100% safe.

    The problem is when arguing this POV you align yourself with some right nutjobs.
    T
    To be fair to you, I don't think the media do a very good job of explaining how dangerous covid is to anyone over 50.

    Hospitalisation rate is high for anyone over 50. Once hospitals get overwhelmed and run out of staff and oxygen, death rate skyrockets for all ages.

    India have vaccinated all their older ages, 11.8% of the population. They're currently scrambling to vaccinate 45-60 age range. You'll find its not 80 year olds dying over there.



    10% of 50 year old men are admitted to hospital with a decent chance of dying or suffering long term lung damage, that is extremely high.

    Hospitals will get overwhelmed if the virus runs rampant until all over 40's have been vaccinated.
    Last edited by Buller; 07/05/2021 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #1407
    First Team
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,963
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    334
    Thanked in
    210 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    My using Herr was to imply he was acting like a dictator and that is exactly what things had come to.
    His opinion and no mitigating balancing factors because the weak Government were unwilling to apply logic when it came to obvious errors for fear of appearances.
    The weakness of Government was in pandering to commercial, emotional and electoral interests over the clear advice from Public Health experts, logic didnt come into it.
    I have known quite a few Chief Medical Officers in the DOH over the years and we have been extremely fortunate in this pandemic that we have had a stellar prize winning public health specialist in the Deputy CMO post in Ronan Glynn, and a resolute CMO who wont bow to the extraordinary political pressure ( particularly from Varadkar) placed on him to ignore the clear epidemiological advice. If that advice means that we don`t get into a ground this year, so be it.

  12. #1408
    First Team Buller's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Cider
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    85
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    64
    Thanked in
    46 Posts
    Exactly. They were weak and bowed to industrial, and public, pressure and went against NPHET for 3 weeks in December because it was Christmas. FéĆkd us for months after and allowed the new more infectious UK variant to take hold quicker.

    The easiest and more populist move to appease a population in the short term is always to ignore scientific advice and data. Shure, we'd have a great time for 3 weeks!
    Last edited by Buller; 07/05/2021 at 9:30 AM.

  13. #1409
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,270
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    136
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    586
    Thanked in
    427 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Stop. Digging. The. Hole. Deeper.

    You called the man a Nazi, but you haven't the courage to use the word. I had a neighbour many years ago who was a child in Germany in the 30s - she could have told you what living under a certain Herr was really like. Reply if you must, withdraw the comment because you should, but that's my last word on this: I'm not going to drag the thread off topic.
    Ok on reflection considering the far right anti masking nut jobs throw the Nazi term around i shouldn't have used the Herr part it was the dictator part i was implying. Withdrawn.
    To be clear i don't think the guy is a Nazi but one of the weakest Governments this country has ever had have created a situation where one mans voice was seen as law and logical counter arguments on some points were ignored.
    If we had a strong stable Government they would take advice balance the medical with the other views and make a decision, not just rubber stamp.

  14. #1410
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    33,075
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,804
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,627
    Thanked in
    2,245 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    logical counter arguments on some points were ignored.
    Such as?

  15. #1411
    First Team Buller's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Cider
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    85
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    64
    Thanked in
    46 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    If we had a strong stable Government they would take advice balance the medical with the other views and make a decision, not just rubber stamp.
    There's very little room to manoeuvre at the moment. The growth rate is already on a knife edge of R rate 1. The last thing we want to do is have to close things we have reopening in a few weeks.

    R rate turns exponential very quickly and we're still not anywhere near vaccination levels for protecting against a hospital surge.

    Your argument is centered around the fact you think Covid is harmless for anyone who isn't elderly. Thats not the case at all.
    Last edited by Buller; 07/05/2021 at 9:52 AM.

  16. Thanks From:


  17. #1412
    Youth Team DCSIL's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2020
    Posts
    230
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    28
    Thanked in
    18 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    honestly think we have lost the plot as a country, there is zero leadership from Govt.
    We should be allowing people who have been vaccinated to go to matches but instead our woke Government are worrying about discriminating against people that refuse a vaccine.
    There is a thing called acceptable risk in life and with the country being run by Herr Houlihan and the politicians afraid to upset social media by taking any stance we will drag out reopening for months. We now have 34 people in ICU across 30 hospitals
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    The EU are bringing in vacine passports which will save us from our pathetic politicians who will listen to their masters as they are more afraid of them then the medics.
    I expected to read this on Facebook, not on here!

    Stop. Digging. The. Hole. Deeper.

    You called the man a Nazi, but you haven't the courage to use the word. I had a neighbour many years ago who was a child in Germany in the 30s - she could have told you what living under a certain Herr was really like. Reply if you must, withdraw the comment because you should, but that's my last word on this: I'm not going to drag the thread off topic
    .
    During the week i've read some stuff about what life was like for Working German People in the late 1930s, if that's something some aspire to when living in a Emergency period that's up to them in some sort of lower middle class revolt.
    I'm sure they can find a country that does.Maybe for the sake of Ireland, we should cut off Donegal and appoint John Waters as King and Gemma O'Doherty as Queen. They won't like living under a Monarchy considering how often they bring it up!

  18. #1413
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,270
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    136
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    586
    Thanked in
    427 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Such as?
    Policy monopoly conferred on NPHET and the HSE was hardwired to fail us on non-Covid public health matters - Michael McDowell

    This is the point i was trying to make about one voice but without the emotional language.
    Balance

  19. #1414
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    33,075
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,804
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,627
    Thanked in
    2,245 Posts
    That's an article dump, not a point though.

    Can you summarise the key concern arising out of it and where you feel "balance" comes into it?

  20. #1415
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,270
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    136
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    586
    Thanked in
    427 Posts
    I linked the article because it says better than i could the problem, plus its not a very long article.

    a two line summary would be
    One viewpoint and issue seen as more important than anything else, cancer care , suicide , Economics, depression ,
    Maybe it is more important but it shouldn't be the only consideration.

  21. #1416
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    33,075
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,804
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,627
    Thanked in
    2,245 Posts
    The problem with just linking articles though is that it could be just a headline that agrees with your view - so it helps to see what the exact point is.

    TBH, economics, suicide and depression can take a running jump as arguments at the moment. There is a lethal pandemic around which has filled ICU to capacity very quickly in a number of countries. You don't get to avoid that by saying that your mental health is more important. It's not. It's a self-centred, literally childish, argument. Let's lift lockdown and see how bad your mental health will really get when hospitals are back overflowing, people are dying, you can't get life-saving treatment because there isn't enough oxygen/beds/hospital staff to go around, and you end up living with 80% lung capacity for the rest of your life. (And I say that as someone who has had a close family member commit suicide recently, which can in part be attributed to covid lockdowns).

    Cancer care - yes, it's there's an issue here, but again, there is a lethal pandemic about which is unprecedented in modern times, and our healthcare system simply isn't built for that. And that's not the HSE's fault - no modern healthcare system is built for it. This thing is unprecedented in modern times. We've seen that across the world as various countries struggle with this, and you have scenes of queues of ambulances outside hospitals, newspapers doubling in length to cater for obituaries, India running out of ****ing oxygen for God's sake. That's the reality, and wishing otherwise won't change things.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 07/05/2021 at 11:39 AM.

  22. Thanks From:


  23. #1417
    Reserves Calcio Jack's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    868
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    94
    Thanked in
    56 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    I linked the article because it says better than i could the problem, plus its not a very long article.

    a two line summary would be
    One viewpoint and issue seen as more important than anything else, cancer care , suicide , Economics, depression ,
    Maybe it is more important but it shouldn't be the only consideration.
    Personally Michael McDowell is the last person I’d use to support an argument - he’s an arrogant ( only surpassed by his boring brother Moore the pro free market economist who ironically had his inflated salary/pension protected by being a public servant) failed politician who during his time in government as a PD minister personified failure in public policy with his nearer Boston than Berlin destructive ‘free market’ approach to everything ( with the exception of Ministers/TDs salaries) - a not as clever as he thinks individual that sees himself as some sort of higher intellectual that knows what’s best for the rest of us - the epitome of everything that is so wrong about the Jesuits

    I guess you could say I’m not a fan😄

  24. Thanks From:


  25. #1418
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,270
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    136
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    586
    Thanked in
    427 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Calcio Jack View Post
    Personally Michael McDowell is the last person I’d use to support an argument - he’s an arrogant ( only surpassed by his boring brother Moore the pro free market economist who ironically had his inflated salary/pension protected by being a public servant) failed politician who during his time in government as a PD minister personified failure in public policy with his nearer Boston than Berlin destructive ‘free market’ approach to everything ( with the exception of Ministers/TDs salaries) - a not as clever as he thinks individual that sees himself as some sort of higher intellectual that knows what’s best for the rest of us - the epitome of everything that is so wrong about the Jesuits

    I guess you could say I’m not a fan
    I'm not a fan myself i hesitated to use the link tbh but the article was balanced enough.
    Never knew Moore was his brother

  26. #1419
    First Team
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,441
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,176
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,656
    Thanked in
    802 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    i shouldn't have used the Herr part it was the dictator part i was implying. Withdrawn.
    Thank you. I appreciate that.

    The McDowells are grandsons of Eoin MacNeill, which makes them nephews of Michael Tierney (ex Cumann na nGaedheal TD and UCD president - the Tierney Building in UCD) so the lineage is long and wide, and very free market. Not sure if they have views on the League of Ireland (though I suspect they would range from ambivalence to privatisation!).
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

  27. #1420
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,394
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    24
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    127
    Thanked in
    93 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Buller View Post
    Your argument is centered around the fact you think Covid is harmless for anyone who isn't elderly. Thats not the case at all.
    I'm not sufficiently familiar with the situation in ROI to comment generally, but I would add that a 45 y.o. who is very overweight or has Diabetes, for example, is probably at equal risk to an otherwise healthy 65 y.o.

Page 71 of 76 FirstFirst ... 21616970717273 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Potential ramifications for LOI after todays FAI accounts debacle.
    By Kingswood Rover in forum Premier & First Divisions
    Replies: 158
    Last Post: 30/01/2020, 8:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •