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Thread: Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

  1. #621
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    Still, no harm to have a supporters group gathered and ready, just in case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    Still, no harm to have a supporters group gathered and ready, just in case.
    Without a doubt, a supporters club is needed.

    It's long overdue, something like this, but the current financial state of the club means a lot of people won't sign up for what is just online content that supporters have been used to for years, at an annual cost of €221.

    I don't see much different or new on offer for the near €20 a month. It's just putting the current content behind a paywall.

    It's not going to create any rainy day fund, as a supporters club might. I'd imagine the revenue it raises will contribute towards the circa €60k wages on our 2 marketing people hired this year, which will help to justify their positions.

    Some supporters see it as a move which makes the club look more professional. You can look at it 2 ways I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    They could have just factored in the VAT on the overall price and advertised that clearly.

    I'd say it's no more than our new marketing guy trying to be clever.
    It's nothing to do with Dundalk or their marketing guy. It's Patreon policy. I read on boards.ie last night that its envisaged that it will eventually move across to Dundalk's own website from Patreon.

    I read up on this yesterday after saying I didn't know enough about it. There's approximately 75 different VAT rates across EU and VAT has to be levied at the rate in the subscriber's home country. It would be completely impracticable to advertise the price including VAT when it's unknown until the person filling in their details subscribes.

    With complex admin like that involved you'd wonder at Dundalk wanting to put it on their own website rather than paying whatever it is Patreon charge. Granted most subscribers would be based in Ireland but there will be some abroad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOI101 View Post
    It's nothing to do with Dundalk or their marketing guy. It's Patreon policy. I read on boards.ie last night that its envisaged that it will eventually move across to Dundalk's own website from Patreon.
    Don't think you need to go into such detail on VAT!

    They could have charged €12.20 plus VAT which would result in €15 and advertise the €15 that way.

    It's poorly advertised and misleading. It's the nightclub guy trying to be clever.

    It's still dear whatever way you take it, but there's 125 sign-ups so that's good.

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    Interesting stuff from Neil O'Riordan.

    https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...mpression=true

    Main bits

    If it cannot convince everyone, the FAI has indicated it is prepared to proceed with a competition featuring those who are prepared to come back.

    The four clubs due to be in Europe - Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians and Derry City - are already pencilled in to play in a four-team tournament at the end of July.

    They, and anyone else who wishes to return, could then participate in a mini-league to be played out behind closed doors.

    But, crucially, SunSport understands there would be no relegation, removing the threat of going down for any club which decides it does not want to get back playing this year.

    It is thought unlikely the First Division will return and, if it does, there would be no promotion on account of there being no relegation from the top flight.

    Any curtailed competition - which would see players travel to matches in cars with an earlier proposal of two team buses binned - would have no influence on European places either.

    They, instead, would be deferred until the 2021 campaign in which the four-series season would be split in two.

    The first 18 games would be used to determine qualification for the 2021-22 Champions League and Europa League campaigns.

    The second 18 games would be used to decide who would qualify for the 2022-23 European competitions.

  6. #626
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    Either all 20 clubs are treated equally or no way this should pass. Total disrespect to first division clubs

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    Who’s going to watch a stream of Sligo vs Waterford for example when the result is essentially meaningless? The only games of any worth would be Dundalk and Rovers' ones while every other club puts money into nothing with no European places up for grabs or relegation to fight. This proposal is a write off in my opinion. Not to mention the First Division being a division made up entirely of friendlies if it comes back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gufct View Post
    Either all 20 clubs are treated equally or no way this should pass. Total disrespect to first division clubs
    Is it disrespectful? Are FD clubs willing to play this year? Probably not, unless the FAI come up with some extra cash.
    If FD clubs aren't willing to play, and aren't being obliged to, does removing promotion/relegation for the 2020 season matter?

    What the proposal is, is a way out of this situation, to get some semblance of a league up and running. Reading between the lines from various sources, UEFA are insisting that leagues make a decision on what their plan is to get restarted.
    We, as a league, need to have our European slots allocated by June next year. This plan achieves that.

    For 2020, it allows us to finish a league this year, with a champion. Clubs can play if they like, no worries if they don't.
    For 2021, it allows us to have a standard season, sorts the European spots, and gets promotion/relegation back to usual.

    I don't think it's perfect, but it's the best option I've seen so far.
    Have you ever won the treble?

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  11. #629
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    I thought the FAI had been taken over by the Visionary Group. Obviously not.

  12. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendy_éire View Post
    I don't think it's perfect, but it's the best option I've seen so far.
    Agreed. This is an awkward position to resolve, but you can't have a position where, say, Athlone Town or UCD could hold up the rest of the league because they're not ready to get back to things.

    I don't know how it's all going to pan out - it seems a little bit like telling shops they can re-open but none of their customers are allowed in - but I think it's better than the alternatives at this stage.

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    Fair enough but for the ones that dont/or cant play where is the goverment assistance in this especially if there is going to be no first division this year? Clubs have to pay rates,water charges ,phone charges,electricity normally and Im sure a one or two of these costs arent avoidable at all which is rather unfair imo. Clubs are going to be out of cash a good bit especially with no gate receipts, bar sales etc. If there is going to be a way out the government should introduce that they dont charge tax on ie gate receipts until the breakout of the virus . There has being no communication once from the FAI which says it all about their attitude.

    Plus the sooner we have a new government the better so we can get that corrupt SR out as sports minister once and for all as hes a rugby head and always will be!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Government is assisting with wage subsidies.

    Water, phone, electricity and so on should be greatly reduced if the club isn't operating.

    But Government can't assist everyone with everything unfortunately.

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    If First Division clubs don't play, it will be terrible pr. It'll tarnish the LOI reputation even further as the only summer league that's cancelled. No promotion/relegation is nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Don't think you need to go into such detail on VAT!

    They could have charged €12.20 plus VAT which would result in €15 and advertise the €15 that way.

    It's poorly advertised and misleading. It's the nightclub guy trying to be clever.

    It's still dear whatever way you take it, but there's 125 sign-ups so that's good.

    This is a common complaint from DFC fans that you don't hear from Rovers and Bohs, both who we are miles behind on the membership route, as essentially we are only starting this now, granted there were many previous versions, but these two clubs have been doing it for year, plus you don't hear complaints like we have, 'what do I get for my €18.45 etc per month, this is supporting a club, full stop.

    Ps this is not directed at you, its more to the attitude of some Dundalk fans.

    Ps its over 150 now, after only 3 days, so not bad going.
    #DundalkFC 5 titles in 6 years 2014/2015/2016/2018/2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    This is a common complaint from DFC fans that you don't hear from Rovers and Bohs, both who we are miles behind on the membership route, as essentially we are only starting this now, granted there were many previous versions, but these two clubs have been doing it for year, plus you don't hear complaints like we have, 'what do I get for my €18.45 etc per month, this is supporting a club, full stop.

    Ps this is not directed at you, its more to the attitude of some Dundalk fans.

    Ps its over 150 now, after only 3 days, so not bad going.
    Agree with that. But if we were in 2012, I'd have no problem paying that price or more. Any year pre 2016/17, no issue.

    As it is, the Americans are p***ing millions up against the wall and there are players on 2k+ a week, while supporters facilities aren't even a consideration (the Fastfix guys did nothing on that either).

    Is my €4.26 a week really going to make a difference given the astronomical wage bill currently?

    There is nothing in the package that is worth the cost. It's basically paying for extra interviews and a podcast.

    If the club was on its knees or our budget was low in overall terms, it would be far different. Or if it was a proper members club with supporters having an input.

    For years now we've abandoned all idea of fundraising. When was our last fundraiser of any sort?! There hasn't even been a POTY awards dinner since 2014!

    The club have no interest in that so I'm not sure why they've gone down this road now with media content and then tried to paint it as strengthening links with supporters and the community!!

    Personally, BT/Premier is €4.60 a week for 7 channels. To be honest I'd rather keep that than use that money to pay for a few interviews etc.

    It's alright for those on the gravy train in Oriel to say they found a good balance on pricing but unfortunately a lot of fans just won't be able to afford it.

    Hopefully the website and social media as they are aren't left totally deserted as they've been excellent for years.

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  19. #636
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    I cant believe that a club the size of Dundalk FC dont have a supporters club. Is there any particular reason or is this a protest or what?
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Quote Originally Posted by brendy_éire View Post
    Is it disrespectful? Are FD clubs willing to play this year? Probably not, unless the FAI come up with some extra cash.
    If FD clubs aren't willing to play, and aren't being obliged to, does removing promotion/relegation for the 2020 season matter?

    What the proposal is, is a way out of this situation, to get some semblance of a league up and running. Reading between the lines from various sources, UEFA are insisting that leagues make a decision on what their plan is to get restarted.
    We, as a league, need to have our European slots allocated by June next year. This plan achieves that.

    For 2020, it allows us to finish a league this year, with a champion. Clubs can play if they like, no worries if they don't.
    For 2021, it allows us to have a standard season, sorts the European spots, and gets promotion/relegation back to usual.

    I don't think it's perfect, but it's the best option I've seen so far.
    Play if you like ... really!!!. That's putting it back into individual clubs laps, its almost as if some clubs aren't sure if they want to play football. All clubs want to play football this season. It shouldnt be up to clubs to decide if they 'like' it or not. The FAI should be making things work for all clubs not have the European spots sorted and whoever else happens to like it. The more things change the more they stay the same.
    Last edited by redobit; 06/06/2020 at 6:34 PM.
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    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    I cant believe that a club the size of Dundalk FC dont have a supporters club. Is there any particular reason or is this a protest or what?
    Its a good question, also when you consider our last visit to Tallaght for the 2-3 defeat, we took just under 1k to the game. What I mean by this is, there are probably around 50 unofficial 'supporter groups' all running busses from pubs or clubs or work places to bigger games , or maybe just in our case by whattsapp group. All of these groups would feel as if they are close to the action, yet none are associated directly to the club.

    Maybe its due to the change of direction the club took with the private local ownership pre P6, then the latter taking over. You could argue the club is effectively being remotely managed out of Chicago in terms of final decisions and payments, and within oriel park for the small team that of 5 or 6 that run the day to day.

    In this case maybe there is no room for a supporters club, but it has to be noted the amount of volunteers is still very active, one group in particular who man the main stand, and again are another one who go to every away game, they actually overcharge on bus trips and give back twice yearly to local charities on the profits made from their away games.

    Maybe its the way things are now, different groups, do different things.
    #DundalkFC 5 titles in 6 years 2014/2015/2016/2018/2019

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  23. #639
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    If there are that many supporters that are active around the club it's surprising that none of them united all the groups into an official supporters club.
    A lot of Dundalk fans seem to complain about Oriel's facilities, I would have thought this issue would be enough.
    Potentially, a supporters club could take over the lease on Oriel and rent it back to the club, re-investing profits into improving facilities for fans and apply for sports capital grants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    If there are that many supporters that are active around the club it's surprising that none of them united all the groups into an official supporters club.
    A lot of Dundalk fans seem to complain about Oriel's facilities, I would have thought this issue would be enough.
    Potentially, a supporters club could take over the lease on Oriel and rent it back to the club, re-investing profits into improving facilities for fans and apply for sports capital grants.
    Nice idea though They couldn't.Peak6 own all.

    Supporters of Dundalk of an older persuasion have mistrust in supporters clubs and trusts.
    Maybe now we can change that because we have a more youth based support but a lot of the old support would be,and always have been, reluctant to give cash to the club because it went missing in the past.

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