Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 91011
Results 201 to 216 of 216

Thread: Attendances 2020

  1. #201
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,974
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    961
    Thanked in
    645 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    Hence the suggestion that they should be required to publish the figures.
    With or without absentee season ticket holders added in?

  2. #202
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,311
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    400
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    425
    Thanked in
    253 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    With or without absentee season ticket holders added in?
    So long as the same approach was followed by every club, it wouldn't really matter.

    My personal preference would be to only state the number who actually attended any particular game.

  3. Thanks From:


  4. #203
    First Team ger121's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,083
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    242
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    400
    Thanked in
    220 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by boynemunich View Post
    You'd really miss the attendance threads, especially on a Saturday morning catching up on what happened around the league on a Friday night.
    Itís like a fetish for most of us on here.

  5. #204
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On a dodgy bus
    Posts
    11,520
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,779
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,455
    Thanked in
    2,016 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    So long as the same approach was followed by every club, it wouldn't really matter.

    My personal preference would be to only state the number who actually attended any particular game.
    Why though?

    What's the benefit, or otherwise?

    EPL, SPL or La Liga, or any other league also include their season ticket holders.

  6. Thanks From:


  7. #205
    Youth Team
    Joined
    May 2020
    Posts
    187
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    45
    Thanked in
    33 Posts
    It depends on whether the question is "what was the attendance for the match?" or "how many tickets were sold for the match?"
    I'd prefer to have both figures!

  8. #206
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,311
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    400
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    425
    Thanked in
    253 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Why though?

    What's the benefit, or otherwise?

    EPL, SPL or La Liga, or any other league also include their season ticket holders.
    Because an attendance tells you how many people attended.

    Providing a figure which includes people who didn't attend means it is no longer an attendance figure.

    It would probably be of more genuine value to be told how many season ticket holders DIDN'T attend every fixture, rather than just lumping them in as if they did. It would be revealing with regards the relative appeal of fixtures, or a measure of how supporters feel about the club.

  9. #207
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,974
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    961
    Thanked in
    645 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Why though?

    What's the benefit, or otherwise?

    EPL, SPL or La Liga, or any other league also include their season ticket holders.
    A lot of clubs in the EPL and La Liga (dont know about SPL) have a system where non attending season tickets get issued as single tickets on the day or 'leased' so technically they could announce 'attendances' that are bigger than a grounds capacity. Oh to have such demand though its a shocker that Bohs havent such as system with their abilities to sell things twice.

  10. #208
    First Team
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,787
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    302
    Thanked in
    188 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    A lot of clubs in the EPL and La Liga (dont know about SPL) have a system where non attending season tickets get issued as single tickets on the day or 'leased' so technically they could announce 'attendances' that are bigger than a grounds capacity. Oh to have such demand though its a shocker that Bohs havent such as system with their abilities to sell things twice.
    Shoehorning a Bohs jibe into a post about season tickets is another level of obsession altogether.

  11. #209
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,974
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    961
    Thanked in
    645 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalymountrower View Post
    Shoehorning a Bohs jibe into a post about season tickets is another level of obsession altogether.
    Following your lead, at least I think it was you in another thread. You should be used to it, a GLITW classic! With Dalymount selling out reasonably regularly the club should be selling tickets for absent season tickets so selling a ticket twice!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 05/04/2021 at 5:29 PM.

  12. #210
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,354
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    22
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    113
    Thanked in
    82 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    A lot of clubs in the EPL... ... have a system where non attending season tickets get issued as single tickets on the day or 'leased' so technically they could announce 'attendances' that are bigger than a grounds capacity.
    As a ST holder at a PL team which has a ST Re-sale scheme, I can tell you that that is not so.

    What happens is that ST Holders who cannot attend a given match may return their seat to the club, which sells them for cash* and returns 19th of the original ST price paid (i.e. pro-rata). And of course some ST holders don't bother with it, or miss the advance notice they are required to give to the club.

    Either way, I'm pretty certain there has never been an example of a club "exceeding" its capacity, since double-counting doesn't take place.

    Moreover, post-Hillsborough, H&S are ****-hot when it comes to monitoring crowd management. For example they will sometimes reduce capacity for certain fixture (eg for segregation purposes). If clubs were buggering about with actual attendance figures in the way you suggest, they might be tempted to use it to disguise higher than permitted attendances.

    While there are likely also VAT implications for "double-selling", rather than "re-selling".



    * - The clubs don't mind, since they get to pocket the extra from charging more to occasional fans/tourists for the seat, than they originally got from the ST holder.
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 06/04/2021 at 3:52 PM.

  13. #211
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,974
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    961
    Thanked in
    645 Posts
    Well as I said technically they could have 'attendances' that would look greater than ground capacity. I didnt say that the practice was to do so. As a both a former season ticket holder in England and day tripper in more recent times so I am reasonably familiar with the system myself. My purpose for mentioning this at all was that announcing season ticket holders in attendances ie real attendance it skews figures - for League of Ireland it pushes figures up and if the same was done at English clubs that regularly sell out then they technically or more hypothetically could announce an attendance of say 35k in a 33k stadium. I think it's poor practice to do so here at all for all sorts of reasons including some of the reasons you give. albeit only one club in Bohs (with the restricted attendance as it is) can say they sell out capacity where this potential issue due to LoI practices could happen. I doubt Bohs or any club would actually state a ticket 'sales' figure over safe holding capacity even if the actual attendance complies.

    My own personal issue with including non attending ticket or season ticket sales rather than actual attendance is in the event of needing to evacuate a ground or emergency services needing figures for whatever reason and there are potentially 2 sets of figures available well its ripe for risk of confusion - Imo at times in Oriel over previous years anything from to up to 1k would seem the difference from whats announced and who is present.

  14. #212
    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,003
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    125
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    543
    Thanked in
    394 Posts
    no way was the difference 1000 it was more like 1500 , clear attempt by you to overstate Dundalk crowds.
    you must have been including season ticket holders from 2016

  15. Thanks From:


  16. #213
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,354
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    22
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    113
    Thanked in
    82 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Well as I said technically they could have 'attendances' that would look greater than ground capacity. I didnt say that the practice was to do so. As a both a former season ticket holder in England and day tripper in more recent times so I am reasonably familiar with the system myself. My purpose for mentioning this at all was that announcing season ticket holders in attendances ie real attendance it skews figures - for League of Ireland it pushes figures up and if the same was done at English clubs that regularly sell out then they technically or more hypothetically could announce an attendance of say 35k in a 33k stadium.
    Sorry, but you're conflating two separate things: counting as "in attendance" ST holders who didn't actually attend (and didn't allow the club to sell it on); and "double-counting".

    Technically or hypothetically, clubs could engage in double counting, but they do not, for the reasons I outlined.

    Which is why there has never been one example, in the PL at least, of a club announcing an "attendance" in excess of capacity, not one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I think it's poor practice to do so here at all for all sorts of reasons including some of the reasons you give. albeit only one club in Bohs (with the restricted attendance as it is) can say they sell out capacity where this potential issue due to LoI practices could happen. I doubt Bohs or any club would actually state a ticket 'sales' figure over safe holding capacity even if the actual attendance complies.
    I don't know about Bohs. Have they ever announced an "attendance" in excess of their permitted capacity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    My own personal issue with including non attending ticket or season ticket sales rather than actual attendance is in the event of needing to evacuate a ground or emergency services needing figures for whatever reason and there are potentially 2 sets of figures available well its ripe for risk of confusion - Imo at times in Oriel over previous years anything from to up to 1k would seem the difference from whats announced and who is present.
    Maybe, but that's not the same as "double counting".

    Anyhow, there's no reason other than embarrassment, why clubs couldn't announce both sets of figures for each game: those actually in attendance, and the number of tickets sold.

    (The embarrassment would come from publicising a high number of ST Holders at struggling clubs not bothering to go to the least attractive games)

  17. #214
    First Team Nah Nah Nah Nah's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,278
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    493
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    565
    Thanked in
    325 Posts
    Even when there’s no crowds going to games there’s some right arguments in the attendances thread

  18. Thanks From:


  19. #215
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,974
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    961
    Thanked in
    645 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah View Post
    Even when there’s no crowds going to games there’s some right arguments in the attendances thread
    I obviously wasnt being being clear in my thinking but I did try to subsequently; So whether done or not, if a ground had 100% of capacity sold as season tickets eg 500k, if 200k season ticket holders dont attend and inform a club that their seat is available and 200k tickets hence become available on the day and are sold, in the way that LoI clubs can work the figures theoretically they could say there was 700k tickets sold and by some losse use of the term 'attendance' more tickets sold than ground capacity. The EPL reality, tax implications, pro-rata refund to season ticket holders, etc is beyond what i what i was saying. In Spain vacant ST seats that are free close to ko are sold albeit on sheer scale unlikely to sell out. Anyways its a very minor musing so I withdraw my comments in case it seemed like i implied that clubs actually announce attendances greater than ground capacity.

  20. #216
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    1,311
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    400
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    425
    Thanked in
    253 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    I don't know about Bohs. Have they ever announced an "attendance" in excess of their permitted capacity?
    You can't rule anything out with Bohs.

Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 91011

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 809
    Last Post: 16/11/2020, 10:32 AM
  2. Attendances
    By pineapple stu in forum Premier & First Divisions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 25/03/2011, 10:45 PM
  3. Attendances
    By pineapple stu in forum Cobh Ramblers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23/11/2005, 8:49 AM
  4. Attendances
    By pineapple stu in forum Sligo Rovers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 22/11/2005, 7:38 PM
  5. Attendances
    By pineapple stu in forum Limerick
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 22/11/2005, 6:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •