Australia to leave OFC for Asian federation

[hamish]

No no, I'm enjoying this sort of conversations as well... usually I get very mean answers when I refuse to go with the mass wanting results above and for whom growing bigger is all that matters, most of them don't understand some people still like the amateur spirit. Some people I know used to go to football for the sake of the atmosphere, now since we promoted a few time it's suddenly about results and some disgust someone being even interested in if there's any football in Andorra or San Marino...



And I'm sure their FAs get some money to cover expenses, but not all countries. Sometimes players do invest personal money in it, and know that they don't get paid (even if they'd actually not lose a game their reward would not make up for the costs they make). And even the ones lucky enough to have an FA paying all: none of these tiny nations have professional players but maybe one or two of the squad, so the others have to sacrifice their holidays to play the away games (except for maybe the happy very few who have an employer that gives them extra days off because of their national team duties, but I don't think many employers will do that)

Given the fact that it takes a long while to travel from Bahrein to Guam, you can imagine they don't have much holidays for the family left if their team survives a few rounds.

Unbelievable what you've stated above, Gerrit. And here was I thinking that FIFA/UEFA subsidised the smaller countries to a degree. Thanks for educating me on that.

I totally emphasise with your opinion on the game in San Marino etc. Here's why. When I was a kid growing up in Ireland, it was almost unpatriotic to play or support football (soccer) and I can understand the people trying to organise the game in the smaller countries because myself, and many like me, went through all that in the 60s and 70s, including being threatened with expulsion from school for playing football. That's only just over 30 years ago!
There was agreat feeling, though, in starting something and developing it. My club, Ballinasloe, now has loads of teams, floodlighting, all weather pitches etc and still hold a great amateur spirit.

Know what? You're right that the game loses something when it grows - sponsorship, BS PR and all the trappings follow and obscure the whole point of the game. I was involved in schools football in the nineties and the amount of time spent with meetings with sponsors. PR firms etc and all that bull$h!t meant it was almost impossible to find enough time to get involved with actually organising football. But, what is the answer?? Do we stick with vast areas of the world playing in isolation, ignored, unsupported etc etc. I haven't got a clue to an answer to be honest.

[Gerrit]

Note that my statements are based on what I hear and read, to have the 100% truth we may better contact FIFA, UEFA and the FAs. I never heard of funds for the tiny nations, doesn't sound like UEFA anyway. The association will rather allow a sixth Spanish team in the Champions League than the actual champions of Latvia and Georgia, because UEFA seems to think the best way to act is to furthen enrichen the already wealthy clubs and protects them, which is why we now have non-champions in the Champions League whereas it used to be only the action champion of every country (the good old days...)

So it would very much surprise me that UEFA would reach out to San Marino, Andorra, Luxembourg, Malta, Liechtenstein and the Faroe Islands (I may have forgotten one...) and give them money for further development. Certainly they won't fund them more than they do the bigger FAs, the big clubs have too much power in the UEFA so they will rather try to keep the mighty clubs mighty rather than to close the gap with the smaller ones. Same goes for national teams I'm afraid. I could be wrong, but I never saw any signs of it, whereas I do remember the words of some actual players of tiny nations. Maybe things changed meanwhile, but it would surprise me really. I just want to stay: don't take my words as a dogma, it could be that I have spoken to the wrong people or heard only one side of the story. But as I said, it would surprise me if it were not like it.

Also, I give an example from the power of the big ones: Gibraltar has every single facility needed to be accepted as a FIFA and UEFA member. However, Spain says if they dare to accept Gibraltar as a seperate entity, they will boycot the World Cup or other big tournaments. UEFA and FIFA will never risk to lose a big country which brings sponsors and money, so they rather just ignore the wish of a smaller nation whose only desire is to just entire the game as well... I could be wrong again, but I'm rather sure if it were Gibraltar suddenly having an objection against the behaviour of Spain, the UEFA's answer would be "you'll just have to take it or leave it".
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the big ones here, and maybe I make some mistakes here in my views on UEFA protecting the big ones. But I just never got a signal to prove my ideas wrong, I have the feeling that double standards are very common in professional football and so far I have found nothing yet to dismantle my own suspicion towards this subject.

[hamish]

Note that my statements are based on what I hear and read, to have the 100% truth we may better contact FIFA, UEFA and the FAs. I never heard of funds for the tiny nations, doesn't sound like UEFA anyway. The association will rather allow a sixth Spanish team in the Champions League than the actual champions of Latvia and Georgia, because UEFA seems to think the best way to act is to furthen enrichen the already wealthy clubs and protects them, which is why we now have non-champions in the Champions League whereas it used to be only the action champion of every country (the good old days...)

So it would very much surprise me that UEFA would reach out to San Marino, Andorra, Luxembourg, Malta, Liechtenstein and the Faroe Islands (I may have forgotten one...) and give them money for further development. Certainly they won't fund them more than they do the bigger FAs, the big clubs have too much power in the UEFA so they will rather try to keep the mighty clubs mighty rather than to close the gap with the smaller ones. Same goes for national teams I'm afraid. I could be wrong, but I never saw any signs of it, whereas I do remember the words of some actual players of tiny nations. Maybe things changed meanwhile, but it would surprise me really. I just want to stay: don't take my words as a dogma, it could be that I have spoken to the wrong people or heard only one side of the story. But as I said, it would surprise me if it were not like it.

Also, I give an example from the power of the big ones: Gibraltar has every single facility needed to be accepted as a FIFA and UEFA member. However, Spain says if they dare to accept Gibraltar as a seperate entity, they will boycot the World Cup or other big tournaments. UEFA and FIFA will never risk to lose a big country which brings sponsors and money, so they rather just ignore the wish of a smaller nation whose only desire is to just entire the game as well... I could be wrong again, but I'm rather sure if it were Gibraltar suddenly having an objection against the behaviour of Spain, the UEFA's answer would be "you'll just have to take it or leave it".
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the big ones here, and maybe I make some mistakes here in my views on UEFA protecting the big ones. But I just never got a signal to prove my ideas wrong, I have the feeling that double standards are very common in professional football and so far I have found nothing yet to dismantle my own suspicion towards this subject.

Sorry to keep agreeing with you Gerrit.

Yep, I read about the Spain Gibralter situation and it's a disgrace.

I am totally against the G14 clubs who will, if they get, their way, destroy football as we know it. In fact, the G14 plans are a death sentence for football. period.

I never call the Champions League, well, the Champions League. I still call it the European Cup. I think it's unreal to call something Champions when you have loads of clubs who qualify from second, third and fourth place in their respective leagues. It's ironic that the real champions in that competition are the Shelbounes, HJK Helsinkis etc etc?? and from the smaller leagues.

Don't run yourself down regarding your knowledge of world football. If the lazy fcuking reporters we have in the press these days did even a 20% investigation that you have done I'd believe what I read in the sports pages.
I've said it before, if I want to REALLY know what's happening in football, Footies is the place to go.
Respect, man.

[Sheridan]

Gerrit, you're being a tad unfair here. UEFA and FIFA offer admirable assistance to smaller and more impoverished associations through projects such as the Goal programme, the Eastern European Assistance Bureau (€85+ million, much of it Champions League money, distributed in assistance funds to 13 associations in Eastern Europe since 1995) and the Hat-Trick Programme. I think the fact that FIFA's membership numbers 200+ associations, and that all bar a handful compete in the qualifying rounds of the World Cup, bears testament to the organisation's inclusive principles.

I will allow, however, that UEFA, which faces constant pressure from G14, sometimes fails to cope with that pressure in a manner consistent with those laudable principles.

[Gerrit]

There are some helps indeed, but this doesn't cover for example that the players of these tiny teams (usually all amateurs, San Marino for example has 1 pro and all others work fulltime) have to take days off for the games etc. Maybe a few employers understand the situation and make special arrangements, but far from all these lads will have the luck to have so much help.

[Sheridan]

I hardly think UEFA's remit extends that far. In any case, some of the most prominent names in world football also have difficulty securing their employers' blessing for time off to play internationals....

Who's the full-time sammarinese player, btw, Andy Selva? I seem to remember him scoring a nice goal against Belgium a few years back, although its significance was somewhat eroded by the ten Belgian goals which preceded it.

Odd that Liechtenstein should have produced a Serie A success story (Mario Frick) before San Marino. Or Ireland, for that matter.

[Gerrit]

Andy Selva, who plays in the Italian division 4, is San Marino's only professional player. He scored the 10-1 in Belgium which I was very pleased with, thanks to his goal Norway still holds the record of 10-0 vs San Marino on their own The San Marinese FA also has a female secretary who is a full-timer within the association, apart from her and Selva the others are all semi-amateurs or full amateurs.

Next week it's Belgium vs San Marino once again BTW. Will be an easy one for the Belgians normally, though you never know (fingers crossed...)

[hamish]

Jesus, lads, WHERE do you guys get all this information. Websites? Magazines? Contacts?
I'm really impressed.
Awesome, informative and entertaining.
I love to hear about football in the so called smaller nations and make comparisons etc.
Get a lot of stuff from World Soccer and 442 myself.
Is France Football available in English translation??

[Snoop Drog]

Just make sure that the info is hard to verify & then make it up as you go along

Only kidding Gerrit

[Poor Student]

Jesus, lads, WHERE do you guys get all this information. Websites? Magazines? Contacts?
I'm really impressed.
Awesome, informative and entertaining.
I love to hear about football in the so called smaller nations and make comparisons etc.
Get a lot of stuff from World Soccer and 442 myself.
Is France Football available in English translation??

A mixture of the net, being nerds, the aformentioned magazines, other magazines and books.

[hamish]

A mixture of the net, being nerds, the aformentioned magazines, other magazines and books.

I'd NEVER call you guys/gals nerds. Just highly intelligent, witty and hugely intuitive, informed people. I can't think of a more horrible insult than to be called a nerd.

Still amazed how you all absorb all the data.

Guess that means you can't slag me ever again, Poor Student!!!!!

Cheers

Kindly old Hamish.

[anto eile]

id like to know more about the gibraltar/spain story.as far as spain is concerned gibraltar was stolen from them so id understand them being pi$$ed off at gibraltar trying to assert its "independence"

tibet is another example of a football country being blocked from competing in international football. china wont allow it. although greenland did play tibet 2 years ago- it was an unofficial friendly as far as uefa/fifa are concerned.the game was played on a council pitch,as all official stadia were barred from hosting the game by fifa. greenlands fa took a risk by even playing against tibet

if uefa had any balls the g14 clubs should be told to f*ck off unless they break up their cosy little cartel. the champions (and runner up/3rd placed/4th placed rich clubs) league would suffer in the short term, but that would be good for football in the long run

[davey]

Fascinating thread lads

I read an article about Guernsey wanting to join UEFA a couple of months ago in When Saturday Comes. Uefa have apparently been inundated with requests from "dependencies" wishing to join up. eg, The Isle of Man, Gibraltar etc.They've now stipulated that countries that wish to join up have to be soveriegn states. Obviously this won't be applied retrospectively so the Faeroes are safe. As are Wales, Scotland and Nothern Ireland

With the admission of Kazakhstan into Uefa (ridiculous I know). There does run the risk of qualifying tournaments getting too big. I certainly wouldn't call for any Pre-Qualifying tournament at the present - I'm as big a footie romantic as the next guy. However UEFA will be wary about who it admits in the future. There are parts of Moldova, Azbekistan looking for independence. Obviously if this happened, they would be rightfully looking for membership of UEFA (They might have more pressing needs first). I think this lies behind UEFAs reluctance with Gibraltar rather than any Spanish hostlity - although admittedly this wouldn't help.

BTW Gerrit, going a bit off-topic here, but I share your arctic obsession. Hve you read Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez? One of my favourite books

[hamish]

Great points Davey and anto eile. I've said it already but I think one biggest threats to football is the G14 bloc.

It looks like it's going to be a nightmare to organise groups with more and more regions becoming...er...independent. Isn't Kosovo another likely prospect in the future?

Maybe pre-qualifying groups might be an unavoidable option for UEFA/FIFA in the future. I really don't know how this will pan out.

Yeah, like you guys, love the sceals about the so called minnows. I understand a little more maybe 'cos of my age, lads, as I remember when WE were minnows and am of the generation that was involved in setting up leagues like Roscommon (founded only 35 years ago) and new clubs etc so have a real feeling for the people in Greenland etc who are basically doing the same thing as we did 35 to 40 years ago. Not boasting, here lads, honestly, just remembering the excitement.

There is a great sense of excitement and adventure when the above is happening and can you imagine how the people in say the Faroes felt when they first were admitted into UEFA competition and then to beat Austria 1-0 in their first game. Must have been like how Ireland felt when Euro 88 and Italia 90 enthralled us all.

What an amazing WORLD game football is? There is simply no sport or passion on this planet that could come near to it, despite all the game's problems.

Now, to spoil all the above, I read in the Guardian a few years ago, that football as a world industry has something in the region of a 400 BILLION turnover each year. Is that possible? Wonder who got those figures and how they worked it out. Just mentioned it to emphasise the SIZE of the sport.

[shedite]

who are you going to put in the Antarctica team ?

There's 3,687 people who ive in antarctica broken down into the nationalities as folows:

Argentina 302,
Australia 201,
Belgium 13,
Brazil 80,
Bulgaria 16,
Chile 352,
China 70,
Finland 11,
France 100,
Germany 51,
India 60,
Italy 106,
Japan 136,
South Korea 14,
Netherlands 10,
NZ 60,
Norway 40,
Peru 28,
Poland 70,
Russia 254,
South Africa 80,
Spain 43,
Sweden 20,
UK 192,
US 1,378


There's bound to be some good players therer

[hamish]

Wonder if any of them have Irish connections. I mean, with the current injury crisis and all......

[davey]

There is a great sense of excitement and adventure when the above is happening and can you imagine how the people in say the Faroes felt when they first were admitted into UEFA competition and then to beat Austria 1-0 in their first game. Must have been like how Ireland felt when Euro 88 and Italia 90 enthralled us all.

I remember I was excited when I read about then saw the highlights of this game. And I'm not Faroese! The Faroes are incredible really. They rarely get hammered and have taken points of some decent teams in the past. Thats why I'm a little worried about next Wednesday

[Gerrit]

There's 3,687 people who ive in antarctica broken down into the nationalities as folows:

Argentina 302,
Australia 201,
Belgium 13,
Brazil 80,
Bulgaria 16,
Chile 352,
China 70,
Finland 11,
France 100,
Germany 51,
India 60,
Italy 106,
Japan 136,
South Korea 14,
Netherlands 10,
NZ 60,
Norway 40,
Peru 28,
Poland 70,
Russia 254,
South Africa 80,
Spain 43,
Sweden 20,
UK 192,
US 1,378


There's bound to be some good players therer

None of them are permanent residents, these are people that are there for a couple of months for professional reasons. The same happens in islands like Kerguelen and South Georgia-South Sandwich, Nova Zembla, ... Actually, the weather station Grytvyken on the South Sandwich Islands is permanently populated (scientists come and go) so some tend to see it as a real town.



About Greenland: SirHamish, people have been playing soccer there since ages. Very popular sport, huge attendances (100 people for a game in a town divided by 5 clubs and only 1000 people living there !) and they were playing it probably much earlier than in some European countries.



As far as I know FIFA has certain rules regarding the "dependencies" of non-sovereign states, basically oversea territories more than x miles away from the mainland state + with organised FA, would in theory be allowed in (e.g. Bermuda, Guam, Faroes, ...). In theory, cause reality shows that once politics are involved it sometimes turns out differently (e.g. Gibraltar).

But basically there are many potential members: St-Helena, Falkland Islands, Cocos Islands, Greenland, ... All of them are non-sovereign but have independent FA's and are thousands of kilometers away from homeland.

If only sovereign states would be allowed in we can still expect some day to welcome Tuvalu, Nauru, Vatican City, Monaco, ...Actually, Tuvalu and Nauru both play friendlies already (though with Tuvalu sinking they'd better hurry up ) and Vatican City is already more or less preparing affiliation. I don't know however who will play for them, as most inhabitants of the Vatican are either involved with the Church or either lifeguards etc, and most of them keep their native nationality. But Vatican City has an FA, has a league (a 5-a-side league) and is sovereign, so FIFA cannot block their membership ; and Vatican City has already shown huge interest in affiliation, so membership is near.




Politics will probably always keep Tibet and Northern Cyprus out of the FIFA (unless Turkey gets someone on Sepp Blatter's chair ), though in the past FIFA have shown more character. They allowed China to re-enter FIFA under the strict condition that Taiwan could remain an independent member. It was a "take it or leave it" thing but China (who had left previously after a disagreement) were begging to get in and up to date still accept Taiwan as an independent football nation.




As how I get all that info: books, internet, forums (bigsoccer.com is excellent !), fellow foot maniacs/obsessives, papers, ... I don't mind being called a nerd as well, so go ahead I bear my name with pride

[Poor Student]

Guess that means you can't slag me ever again, Poor Student!!!!!

Cheers

Kindly old Hamish.

Hamish I'd never dream of doing that. My mother taught me to respect the elderly.

[Gerrit]

Hamish, he is at uni so he is supposed to be a smart guy (and no that's not an insult, being smart is "cool" to use a trendy teenagers word )