Slovakia v Republic of Ireland - 8th October 2020 - Euro 2020 Playoff Semi Final

[Razors left peg]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

[Bielsa´s irish]

[QUOTE=Razors left peg;2049413]Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.[/QUOTe

Yes. all of them were world class players. Sadly for Beglin though. Lawrenson and Whelan were class. Ray was ok. Aldo would have played more time in Spain were he is known as Diego De La Vega el zorro for spanish speakers worldwide till this day

[tetsujin1979]

No, he's not.

[Razors left peg]

So a quick google of Diego De La Vega el zorro and John Aldridge together produces zero results considering its known "World Wide"... can we please stop the madness

[Trequartista20]

Aldridge was known as El Zorro during his time at Real Sociedad. I knew this as an Irish fan who's read a lot of books and articles about our players. I'm not sure it's quite universal knowledge, however.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...sport.comment1

[Bielsa´s irish]

So a quick google of Diego De La Vega el zorro and John Aldridge together produces zero results considering its known "World Wide"... can we please stop the madness

sorry el zorro aldridge la liga or basque club from lovely Donostia Real Sociedad de fútbol

[Bungle]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

Whelan and Lawrenson were both world class. Were it not for injury, Beglin would have been also.
Houghton, Staunton and Aldridge were high class players. Aldridge was top class in La Liga and one of the top forwards there. Staunton and Houghton would have done very well on the continent also.

[Razors left peg]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams

[seanfhear]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams

The Present teams would definitely beat the old teams but the players on the old teams are very old now.

[tetsujin1979]

Aldridge was known as El Zorro during his time at Real Sociedad. I knew this as an Irish fan who's read a lot of books and articles about our players. I'm not sure it's quite universal knowledge, however.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...sport.comment1

The point is, he's not now, and since even Google can't find anything relevant, we won't either.

[samhaydenjr]

His track record with the u21s was hysterically bad. Any stats on this very welcome as I need a laugh

Actually, he had a couple of fairly respectable third-place finishes in qualifying. When he took over for the last few qualifiers for the 2011, we were well on our way to our second last-place finish in a row. And while he had some good players going through, I don't think he had the depth of quality at his disposal that Kenny and Crawford have had.

[samhaydenjr]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

Also, of the 20-man squad at Euro 88, only 12 were playing for English top-flight clubs in the preceding season - 3 were at Celtic, 3 were at Second Division teams, David Kelly was plying his trade for Walsall in the Third Division, while John Byrne was playing for the worst team in the French first division

[elatedscum]

Actually, he had a couple of fairly respectable third-place finishes in qualifying. When he took over for the last few qualifiers for the 2011, we were well on our way to our second last-place finish in a row. And while he had some good players going through, I don't think he had the depth of quality at his disposal that Kenny and Crawford have had.

He didn’t use what depth he had well though. The likes of Jack Byrne not being included in his final campaign, no logic there, including Dimaio ahead of him. Jimmy Dunne was ignored until the nordies tried to convince him. Dan Cleary was also a better CB than the lads who played in the last campaign. Talbot better than Liam Bossin as a keeper.

By the end of the campaign, Daire O’Connor and Daniel Kelly we’re viable options. Ogbene and Crowley weren’t really pursued. That’s just the 96-97 kids.

Imagine this team for King’s final campaign...

Kelleher

Whelan
Dunne
Cleary
Manning

Ogbene
Rice
Cullen
Byrne
Curtis

Hale

That’s a very strong u21 team...


Kenny made a very competitive u21 squad by

A) moving players up the age groups as soon as they were ready. Meanwhile King stuck with the one squad from 96/97, even after the 98 and 99 kids graduated 19s. The only players to be used from later were Ronan Hale and Conor Ronan as far as I remember. Whereas Kenny immediately moved up Lee O’Connor, Conor Coventry and Adam Idah. Meanwhile, the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Knight, Collins, Bazunu etc etc weren’t far behind. 5 age groups in total were used in competitive fixtures... (98,99,00,01,02)

B) getting the best out of LOI players with first team experience. The likes of Farrugia, Elbouzedi, Scales and Leahy were all important players from the squad. Certainly, in the previous campaign LOI players with genuine upside were regularly ignored in favour of the likes of Quigley, Donnelan etc. who clearly had very little chance of being useful footballers for us... Curtis and McGrath are the only one I can think of who received a call-up on the back of LOI performances (as opposed to someone who was in England and was a squad regular and then went home ie Danny Kane). Also, McGrath didn’t really get much of an opportunity, maybe 1 game or 2 off the bench...

C) Playing early, playing often. Games against Ireland amateurs, homegrown squads, Toulon tournament etc etc. Rotating fringe players. The more players you see, the greater the chance of finding talent.. and Kenny found about 3 options in every position...

[Bungle]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams

Fair point re Aldo and Ray. Having said that Klopp took Robertson from Hull so it can still happen.

[jbyrne]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

whelan and lawrenson are european cup winners which would support the view that they were top players at the time.
houghton, aldridge and beglin could well be european cup winners if english clubs were not banned in the late 80s.
can only judge the players at the time they were playing and all five were good enough to play for one of the best club sides in europe in the 80s.

[Eminence Grise]

The point is, he's not now, and since even Google can't find anything relevant, we won't either.

BI spouts a lot of BS but Aldo was called Zorro during his time in Spain, and after he left by at least one sub in the Indo. I'm not sure he was called it after the masked swordsman, or because he was a fox in the box -the latter I assume because the original Zorro was a US pulp-fiction creation. Personally, Aldo works fine for me. I've never called him anything else.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-26056027.html

[pineapple stu]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.

But relatively speaking, the Ireland team has most definitely gone backwards a lot. We have no players close to the relative calibre of Houghton, Aldridge, Whelan, Lawrenson or Beglim. It's why we're serious also-rans now where reaching the last 16 of the Euros is hailed as a major achievement (when in 2002, reaching the last 16 of the world was kind of expected, even without our best player).

[Bungle]

whelan and lawrenson are european cup winners which would support the view that they were top players at the time.
houghton, aldridge and beglin could well be european cup winners if english clubs were not banned in the late 80s.
can only judge the players at the time they were playing and all five were good enough to play for one of the best club sides in europe in the 80s.

The Liverpool team of the late 70s and 80s was imo the greatest English side of all time. I would say definitely top 5 club side of all tine. I think their late 80s vintage was brilliant but in fairness they would have been up against AC Milan of that era, who for my money is the best club side I've seen in my lifetime. Not saying they wouldn't have won 1-2 more after Heysel, but not set in stone either. A final between the two around 1990 would have been a hell of a match, but I'd have AC coming out on top.

Not a Liverpool fan, as I only support Ireland. However, I may be biased regarding them and Everton as I like Liverpudlians best from having lived in England and at a time when other cities weren't so welcoming to a young Irish lad, they were generally top class. I was living there when Ray scored against England and they were loving us beating them.

[jbyrne]

Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.

give them equal fitness etc and the euro 88 team would beat the current team 9 times out of 10.
its easy to forget just how good some of that team was and it was also full of tough pros and leaders.

[pineapple stu]

Well yes - but "equal fitness, etc" is quite a lot!

But effectively I agree with you that the point that "We don't have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s" is entirely legitimate.