I suppose the thought experiment here is what happens if Bazunu goes back to City next season and becomes their No 2. Would he cease to be the preferred choice of his current advocates because he wasn't playing enough games?
It's a very reasonable position. I think there's two separate questions here:Originally Posted by third policeman
1. Which goalkeeper is the best choice for Ireland right now?
2. What would be best for Kelleher in terms of his development?
On 1, I'd have no problem seeing Kelleher start for all the reasons you and others have given. If we didn't have a wunderkind (shudder) gk with so much time on his side then I'd pick Kelleher now. It's close as Travers probably deserves a go too but....I think Kelleher maybe edges it based on how they've both done for Ireland. That said, Bazunu took his chance and looks like a phenomenal prospect who might be even better given more games and by the time he is 23. Given that we are sort of building a team for future tournaments that has to come into the equation too.
On 2, I get the argument that maybe Kelleher needed something different and he's certainly not in a bad spot BUT I don't see why people find it controversial at all for some of us to say he should go get himself a #1 spot. I think that would help him experience more scenarios (see the situation recently where he made a mess of coming out and should have been sent off) and also, if he really is as good as he has looked (most of the time), it would secure the Ireland jersey for him now.
Here's a completely not serious one for you - if Kelleher really does play up front in training, with Salah and against Virgil, then is he our de facto best option up front, ahead of the lads playing at a lower level? I'm not saying that's the same scenario because he's playing games but....he'd be learning from the best at one of the best clubs in the known and unknown universe etc. So how much weight do we give that over game time?
But he would have played enough games....
To respond to your final question. None whatsoever. It's a beautiful attempt at an analogy (not serious), but there is no visible evidence that he is any good playing up front, whereas his goalkeeping skills are very much in evidence. I started art classes back in November, the teacher was brilliant, so were the other students, I learned a great deal from them. The principle lesson being that I was pretty useless.
Pretty useless might still get you a game up front for Ireland.....
Is there a mathematical answer to what constitutes enough? Will the fact that Bazunu and Travers will always have have played more games make them more qualified, or is there a figure that Kelleher has to reach to establish quits? It's all a bit hazy. I think he has established by virtue of what he has already done, that he's ready to play regular international football.
Fair point.
I think a season of football would be good for him but Im also not saying he isn't good enough to play for Ireland. He's just not the clear cut choice. He might be if he had a few seasons behind him and had been fit to take his chance.
The debate has definitely become more interesting. I have been, and remain at this point, firmly in the "Bazunu keeps the jersey" camp. He owns it, has not let us down in green and is playing notably well at club level. Kelleher has made ground though, and significantly so, in the last couple of months. While his body of work is limited to an extent, he has played in more high profile games at club level than Bazunu has (notwithstanding that Bazunu has Portugal away under his belt). Not sure that high profile means as much in terms of the gaps between first team appearances but it means something and i certainly would not have any issues if Kelleher's services were required for Ireland, for whatever reason. His profile and performances keep the pressure on Bazunu to perform in green which hopefully is a positive thing all round.
had he been fit to play against Serbia and/or Luxembourg and had he matched Bazunu's performances, he'd be the undisputed first choice, so would Travers if he had taken his opportunity against Serbia and continued with the same performances as Bazunu had.
I think Bazunu has basically has had 10 good games, conceding 7 goals, keeping 4 clean sheets.
Do I think Kelleher has the ability right now to produce similar performances? Yes. Hard to imagine he could have done much better than Bazunu did during those games.
Going forward, I suspect it'll be performances for Ireland along with fitness that will dictate opportunities for the 3 keepers...
Kelleher is doing well in the games he has been given for Liverpool, but for the argument that at this stage of his career that 5 or 6 games per season is enough because he is playing at a big club, I would ask at what point do people think he needs to play regular football?
We all agree he is a good keeper, but some of us continue to think he would get better by playing every week. Travers has improved massively with regular games. Should he wait until hes 25, 28, 35 before he looks to be 1st choice somewhere? If Allison wasnt so young I think his situation would be less of an issue, but as it stands he is the oldest of our 3 keepers and has played by far the least amount of football. Hes not a kid anymore, he needs to aspire to being more than a back up
Yeah that's how I feel at this stage. Kelleher has answered some but not all of the questions around him and I've seen enough to think he would have done really well for Ireland if he'd been available to take the chance. Bazunu is a freak though and he's gone in and done brilliantly. The lad is 19 ffs. It's scary how good he might be even by 23.
I'm still very much in the camp of us having 3 good options, 2 of whom are potentially world class.
why do you think all he aspires to be is a back up? hes a 23 year old gk at one of the best club teams of the last decade. the idea he should turn his nose up at that alone, to play for a lower league team just so he can play some games is mad. he has outgrown the loan market and will in all likelihood be sold when liverpool see fit. He is the oldest but as a ive said on numerous occasions hes the one who started playing in goal the latest of the 3. he had a whole pile of catching up to do. Bazunu made his senior debut as a 16 year old, CK hadnt 2 years of gk coaching behind him at that point. for one reason or another liverpool didnt loan him out when it was rumoured(?) 2 years ago. their development of him cant be questioned imo, theyve nurtured him well and havent rushed him into anything.t.He will need game time eventually, he'll know that, he's not stupid. But I honestly dont see it as a negative that he wanted to be a no2 at this stage of his career, at a team of this stature.
Last edited by Jd2793; 02/03/2022 at 5:48 PM.
If he started playing later its more important that he actually plays football. Again I ask the question at what age do you think he needs regular football?
When hes 25. Liverpool wont be risking a loan move they'll sell when his stock is high. Cant see him there in 2 years time.
His stock wont get much higher than it is right now so it would be a good time to sell if they got good offers. Im not sure how much of a market there would be for a 25 year old goal keeper who has had about 10 total career games
Not starting tonight unfortunately….
Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.
Is the name pronounced "kevin?"
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
No
It's pronounced Caoimhín
Keeveen or Kweeveen depending on where in the USA you are based.
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