QuoteThe goalkeeping situation with Ireland hasn’t been this good since Kelly/Given/Kiely.
The squad weaknesses lie elsewhere.
Have to say, in a weird way Travers has been the find of the season for us. Wasn't looking great for him when he was conceding two goals a game at a crap Swindon team (add in his one Ireland and one Bournemouth games and it was exactly two goals a game last season actually), and then got recalled after just eight games to sit on the bench again. He could easily have gone the way of Kieran O'Hara and I don't think any of us really expected him to be a regular at the top of the Championship keeping the Norwegian number 1 out of the team.Originally Posted by Fixer82
I think for next season if Bazunu can move up a level (I think he didn't do enough last year to do so, but there should be no such problems for next season) and if Kelleher can get a loan move, we can really start to feel comfortable with our options in the here and now. Just in time for wing-back to start becoming a pressing issue (along with the Robbie Keane-sized gap up front that we still have...)!
The goalkeeping situation with Ireland hasn’t been this good since Kelly/Given/Kiely.
The squad weaknesses lie elsewhere.
Even when he is playing, people still can't wait to tell him to go.
He knows the situation he's in, and he knows what the public thinks he should do. He's decided to stay put. So all he can do is take his opportunity when he gets it. If that's not good enough for the people that matter, that's for them to worry about.
He’s playing a Mickey Mouse league cup game once in a blue moon. Hardly sufficient to quell my strong preference to see him get regular senior football experience so we actually can see what he’s made of
You have seen what he's made of, for club and country, and let us know that you're clearly not impressed.
The games he has played this season have been against other EPL level teams, and he's more than showed he's up to the task. Whereas our current No. 1 is facing rubbish teams like Rotherham and Ipswich in a rubbish league at a rubbish level of football and making as many errors as saves. And in a few months time, he will be facing quality teams with quality players at the very highest level, that will punish every error by him or his teammates that they're presented with.
Maybe a bit harsh on Bazunu who has done well for us, but then so has Kelleher when given the opportunity. This debate has become very polarised with camps seeming to divide along pro and anti-Kenny lines. They are two promising young keepers chasing different development routes. Personally I think Kelleher is further along that route. If Bazunu really impresses at Portsmouth he may end up bench warming at City, where Kelleher is now. By being number 2 Liverpool judge Kelleher to be ready to play at the highest level when needed. On the form he has shown for them and Ireland, there is no evidence that he isn’t ready to play international football.
It's true that the debate has become polarised, although you can support the manager and ask questions of him.
The consensus atm is that Bazunu can't be questioned.
When your options are a Liverpool player facing proper footballers when he plays, or a player not one but two levels down the ladder who can't keep clean sheets against the likes of Andorra and Luxembourg, I don't think any manager can justify going with the latter, yet still hope to progress to the top table of international football.
I've been one of Bazunu's bigger critics on here, but even I seem to recall us beating Luxembourg 3-0 only last month with Bazunu in nets.
So not true he can't keep a clean sheet against them.
It's also not true he'll soon face players who'll punish every error he'll make - he's made a lot of errors so far and got away with them all except (against Andorra arguably). Ronaldo not punishing that sloppy pass that led to the penalty in Faro is the most obvious example.
I still wouldn't be entirely comfortable with him in nets in June (or against France/England, if we play them in a friendly in March as reported), and I think in general the third tier isn't where we want to be looking for our players, but I think rational analysis, not hyperbole, is best here. I think it's clear he's improving and conceding a goal against Luxembourg in March 21 will mean nothing 15 months later
Last edited by pineapple stu; 27/12/2021 at 9:19 PM.
Both Bazunu and Kelleher are promising goalkeepers with obvious flaws they still need to get out of their games. Neither are the finished article and it won’t be for a few years yet until we know which one is better.
I don’t understand why anybody would passionately say one is definitely better than the other right now. They are both promising guys who could go to the very top or be out of the game altogether three or four years from now.
can't see either being out the game. i'd be confident that the floor is a good championship keeper for both and sky's the limit for both. Travers is currently a good championship keeper i guess, so i guess i could see him being a good premiership keeper if it all comes together. don't think he really has the upside the other two do but it's been a great season so far for him... i certainly didn't see his former teammate Ramsdale making the progress he's made this season, goalkeeper development, decline (and revival) is a really unique beast...
Last edited by elatedscum; 28/12/2021 at 9:09 AM.
No chance of both being out of the game barring injury or disaster. None whatsoever.
Utter drivel.
Of course Bazunu can be questioned. He has been questioned consistently here. He’s made some errors he was lucky to get away with but his saves in Luxembourg and from Mitrovic (and his general performances in both games) were as good as any by an Irish keeper that I’ve ever seen. Failure to keep a clean sheet at home to Luxembourg is not something Bazunu can be blamed for. You know that, you’re being totally disingenuous there. It was an utter crap team performance and he was beaten by a great shot.
Elatedscum mentioned Ramsdale: I think it’s interesting that Arsenal noticed that he recovered well from mistakes, a really good sign which encouraged them to spend big on him. Bazunu had a ropey spell in November but has been very good since. It’s just factually not true to say he makes as many errors as saves either in League 1. That comment you made in an earlier post just doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny.
What have we seen of Kelleher? An outstanding 45 minutes in Hungary and a game vs Qatar where he had nothing to do.
I don’t care whether Kelleher is at Liverpool or Lincoln. “When he plays” is virtually never and when he has played against these “better players” he hasn’t convinced in normal play. Ireland won’t have the luxury of penalty shoot outs for a long time to come yet. I remain sceptical that he can deal with high balls well but overall I think he’s developing well. Emi Martinez hung around in the shadows at Arsenal for years and made a huge breakthrough at quite an advanced age so I wouldn’t be rushing to demand game time right now if I was him.
As Geysir says goalkeeping isn’t a problem position for us. The next year or so will be more revealing. Right now I’ll allow any young goalkeeper to be imperfect. It goes with the job and it’s something we’ll have to live with.
If I’m made to call who’ll have the higher ceiling I’d say Bazunu. I think the early signs are that he’ll have a great career. I think both will do well for themselves. I’ve no axe to grind but I’ll call out nonsense when I read it.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 28/12/2021 at 9:43 PM.
"Makes as many mistakes as saves" goes into the Foot.ie stupidity hall of fame.
Reality is that all our goalkeepers have over a year to burn (in terms of international football) at the moment and they all seem to be making progress. Regardless of Kenny's ambitions of winning the group, the Nations League is a complete free hit so we just need our keepers to continue their progress and we'll be very well-stocked next March.
This is senior football. Mistakes are costly, and when goalkeepers make them, they get punished.
Granted I don't see much of his club games, but whenever I have, he's made the kind of errors you'd be annoyed with if they happened in the Phoenix Park, let alone Portsmouth. So far, he's conceded goals against Andorra Qatar, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan, and therefore he has to be criticised for at least some of why that happened. His age is really no defence. If he's good enough to hold the shirt, he's also old enough to be questioned. It took 6 full games for him to keep a clean sheet. Results matter at the highest level.
It's not Kelleher's fault, he had little to do against Qatar. Ideally you want your keeper to keep a clean sheet with little or nothing to do, rather than have to try and save everything and the kitchen sink. Whenever he has played for us, he's conceded no goals and done nothing wrong. That should not be seen as a negative.
I still stand by my view that when you have a player at Liverpool and a player from Portsmouth available, any international manager would go with the one at the better club at a higher level of football.
By that logic, we have a keeper who’s with the best premier league team (Man City) who has only played 5 less genuine senior games than Caoimhin at Liverpool (I don’t count the domestic cup games he played in considering the teams that were put out). Factor in Bazunu’s international experience, his 50 league one appearances and also his state-of-the-art training with Ederson and co at Man City, international managers would still blindly go with Caoimhin?
Last edited by tommy_c12000; 30/12/2021 at 5:25 PM.
Kelleher plays games and people dont want to count them, spectacular.
I'm not sure you've seen many of his games at all. Even a casual scan of match reports would tell you he's been in superb form outside of the 2 games earlier in the season you must have watched. He is joint top for clean sheets in the league at this stage.
Your support of Kelleher is admirable I suppose but when you combine it with such hyperbole about Bazunu it's hard to take your opinions on either keeper seriously to be honest.
Yeah, that doesn't make sense alright. The second string of the top PL teams are probably what - solid Championship strength? They're decent players; there's a reason they tend to do very well in the Cup competitions even though they regularly put out understrength sides. It's only seven extra games, but they definitely count.
Also, Bazunu doesn't have access to "state-of-the-art training with Ederson and co at Man City" as tommy_c says. He's been on loan at third tier clubs for the past 18 months.
mypost is just being mypost though. There's definitely an argument that Kelleher is the better keeper right now (and of course, where does Travers stand now?), but that's no reason for saying that Bazunu can't keep a clean sheet against Luxembourg (he can), for saying that conceding a goal against Luxembourg undermines him (it doesn't - it was a great goal by the only CL player on the pitch, and it was a typical goal to concede against a smaller nation), or for saying that he's made more blunders than saves (he clearly hasn't). Unfortunately when you correct mypost on facts, he tends to ignore you and come at things in a similar way again, quietly dropping what he was corrected about while not acknowledging it.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 30/12/2021 at 6:55 PM.
Bazunu is not with City, he doesn't train with Ederson, and he will never play a senior game for them. They get rid of him before the start of every season. Like all players he needs security, and being sent on loan from one end of the country to the other every year doesn't give him any. Kelleher can step up and play in the EPL at a moment's notice. Travers has to wait at least a season, and Bazunu will have to wait years, and find a permanent move to do so.
L1 is an awful standard, and it's disappointing that we have to go there to find any players to play international football, even more so when the alternative is with one of the biggest clubs in the world at the highest level, with EPL and European Cup experience. So sending him out to face the best forwards in world football at international level, is no sweat to him.
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