Fa Cup Final

[sylvo]

NOT!

Hate to say it but the Trafford Bavarians deserved it Big time

Daylight Robbery of the Highest order......

What was it like around your way last night. Pretty quite round my way fairly surprised.

[Macy]

In scheme of things, don't care that much.

However, a word of thanks must be on it's way from Highbury to Styles - complete bottler when it came to second bookings and penalty's. Although I'm not sure what was worse - his performance, or the way the media thought he'd done well by basically not making the hard decisions

[Karlos]

Great to see this from the 'we know how to lose' camp - briiliant!!! And here was me thinking the only 'bottler' in Cardiff was Patrick Vieira!!!

Indeed the referrees performance was just as inept as Mike Riley's in Old Trafford when he failed to send off Rio Ferdinand for his foul on Ljungberg as the last man, or his failure to book either of Nevilles for early challenges which would have meant both being sent off, not to mention Rooney's theatrics for the penalty. There was no problem from Man Utd fans with the referree's performance that day

What goes around, comes around and then some!!

50 games unbeaten or winning a trophy?? No contest!

[NeilMcD]

One of the most one sided matches I have seen in a long time between two top teams. Its been the story all season for Man Utd, not been able to finish off poor teams and again it was the case on Saturday. Also I thought this before the game, why did it have to go to penalities. I think the FA Cup final replay should have been kept. I think it would have been the best for both sides. Arsenal could have had a chance to put in a better performance and Utd would have had a chance to maybe finish in the next game. I can understand no penalties after a replay but there is not reason for penalties on the day of the final.

[Macy]

I've no major problem with the result - ref wouldn't have mattered if United had finished it off with all the pressure they had. Doesn't make him a good ref - I mean how many chances did Reyes get before finally being sent when it didn't matter?

Gotta say, the no replays sneaked under my radar too - but probably brought in as a sop to the big clubs to reduce the number of games (when they really want an end to some of the pointless international friendlies).

[Karlos]

I can understand no penalties after a replay but there is not reason for penalties on the day of the final.

Where would it end???

Why stop at the FA Cup final - we could have World Cup Final Replays, European Championship Replays, Carling Cup Replays, Play-off final Replays, Champions League final Replays etc etc

The clubs already give out about the amount of games played in a season and I don't think any club including United would be in favour of bringing back replays for this or any of the other competition finals.

Penalties is often a very cruel way to end a game but it is fair. Both teams have the same chance to win just like they do when the game kicks off. Penalty taking is a skill and one professional footballers should be able to master. It's painful for the supporters and players to lose that way but they have 120 minutes before that to not have to go through that pain.

In United's case, they can blame nobody but themselves for not taking their chances (although their fans will blame everyone else as already witnessed!)

Cup finals are all about winning - i've been on the other side of the fence when Arsenal should have comfortably beaten a 10 man Galatasary in the Uefa Cup Final, it's not a nice feeling to lose on penalties but you look at why you had to go to penalties in the first place and say 'we fu*ked up, we gave them a chance'

For me it was a fitting way to avenge the memories of last october, call it good karma.

[NeilMcD]

Well the FA Cup final only changed to penalties quite recently whereas the World CUp and the Champions league etc have had penalties for a long time. Therefore I am questioning the need for that change to penalties. I thought replays were a good thing. I dont support Utd and I would have been of this view regardless of who won the game but, I suppose it makes it harder to watch when one team dominates so much.

In relation to the World Cup or Champions league. Usually these are held in a neutral country. As a result it would be hard to organise a replay and expect fans to hang around abroad for an extra few days etc. However the Cup Final has always had replays and they were easily organised. Its at the end of the season so fixture congestion is has no relevance.

[Macy]

The clubs already give out about the amount of games played in a season and I don't think any club including United would be in favour of bringing back replays for this or any of the other competition finals.

Didn't I say that? No need to go off on another bad winner rant....

Personally, it should either be no replay for any round including the final or replay's including the final. Difference with the other competitions you list, there aren't replays in the other rounds either (europe 2 legs admittedly, but knock out rounds of the internationals aren't).

[Karlos]

However the Cup Final has always had replays and they were easily organised. Its at the end of the season so fixture congestion is has no relevance.

Fixture Congestion is an issue particulary given the contract to host all FA Cup Finals at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff for the period of 2001 to 2005.

For example, had Liverpool been in the cup final this year and drew the game, a replay could not have been played mid-week due to the Champions League final. With a rugby international taking place next weekend at Cardiff, the facilities may not have been available and potentially the match may have had to be moved to mid-week bringing the game dangerously close to the june 4th internationals where countries could have evoked the FIFA 5 day rule and wiped out the first team squads of both teams. Had it been a World Cup or Euro Championship year aswell it would have been an even bigger problem.

And that's not even to mention the supporters and the money it costs to attend these games - between 60 and 90 pounds this time around aswell as travel to and from the games.

The huge empty spaces at the very last FA Cup Final replay between Arsenal & Sheffield Wednesday in '93 and many others previous is reason enough to not go back down this route.

The FA have even had probelms selling semi-final tickets in recent years (notably Blackburn this year and Sheffield Utd in recent times returning tickets) so it's no surprise they wouldn't want to go back down the route.

[Karlos]

Didn't I say that? No need to go off on another bad winner rant....

aplogies, hadn't seen your post when I wrote mine!!

[Karlos]

Personally, it should either be no replay for any round including the final or replay's including the final.

Agree with you here in one way, but i can see the argument the FA puts forward, in that replays in the rounds up to and including the quarter finals help the smaller clubs and give them a better chance to earn more money and receive good exposure for a good draw. Exeter would have been a prime example of that this year.

The FA also removed the semi-final replays aswell only recently. I think they are assuming that the big boys will be in these later rounds and the desicions is aimed at helping them with regard to fixture congestion.

Had Arsenal and Utd drawn the in the semi final last year, Arsenal would have been well and truely fu*ked. As it was they played something like 4 games in 9 days including that semi against Utd and a champions league quarter final against the Russians, had that been 5 games it would have been a disaster and ultimatly would have probably meant Arsenal leaving out even more top players in the FA Cup replay than they had already done in the original semi (leaving out Henry for example) to concentrate on the major competitions like the Champions League and the Premiership.

That is something the FA would also want to avoid i.e. having the competition devalued even further.

[Macy]

That is something the FA would also want to avoid i.e. having the competition devalued even further.

It depends on your point of view - no replays for semi's and finals devalues the competition imo. If the FA was that arsed they'd drop 2 England friendlies instead.

And that's not even to mention the supporters and the money it costs to attend these games - between 60 and 90 pounds this time around aswell as travel to and from the games.

Now whatever the merit of some of the anti replay arguements, never, ever claim that the FA give a fook about the fans.
If that was an issue, then they would never have played the semi's in Cardiff in the first place, they'd reduce the ticket prices for the main games (they used to for replays), and they'd split Cup final capacity between both teams instead of all their blazers getting the tickets for the match/ to sell to touts.

[Karlos]

It depends on your point of view - no replays for semi's and finals devalues the competition imo. If the FA was that arsed they'd drop 2 England friendlies instead..

Well it's not only the England friendlies that's the problem - there's probably only a handful of english players going to play in the final anyway. There's issues over the qualification games that the likes of France, Brazil, Argentina etc have in the next week. Would you want to watch a final replay without Henry, Vieira, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy etc etc.......

Now whatever the merit of some of the anti replay arguements, never, ever claim that the FA give a fook about the fans.

I wasn't and haven't. All the FA care about is bums on seats at premium prices and in the last FA Cup Final Replay the supporters said no and didn't show leaving huge gaps in the stadium ultimately reducing the money the FA made on it and demeaning the spectacle. The FA doesn't want a high profile match in a half empty stadium on reduced prices but at high cost to them when they can charge top dollar for a big day out with a dramatic finale that gives all who attend (supposed!) value for money in that they are guaranteed to see someone lift the cup at the end.

[Macy]

Would you want to watch a final replay without Henry, Vieira, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy etc etc.......

hmmmmm, yes (and yes) and no (and no)...

[Karlos]

hmmmmm, yes (and yes) and no (and no)...

stupid question eh!!!

[NeilMcD]

Manchester United fans could be forgiven for feeling sorry for themselves when they trudged back to work on Monday.

Harshly beaten in the FA Cup final on penalties and deep in takeover territory following a predatory swoop by an American businessman whose intentions are not yet clear, United have been swimming against the tide in recent weeks.

As the United faithful left a soggy Millennium Stadium they will have felt the first goalless Cup final for 90-odd years summed up their season in a nutshell.

They dominated and outplayed numerous sides, but all too often the final product - goals - failed to materialise and the Red Devils were left empty handed.

Sir Alex Ferguson and captain Roy Keane were clearly not amused as they watched on from the sidelines as Arsenal lifted the Cup following their win on penalties.

But Ferguson, who will stay on at Old Trafford under the new regime, has plenty to smile about inwardly.

In Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo, United had the two outstanding players on the pitch.

Man-of-the-match Rooney deserved to score a winner while Ronaldo will come to realise that for all his great trickery, he needs to bring a bit more to the table than a few tasty tit-bits for his colleagues to feed off.

United are in good shape defensively and Roy Keane, albeit in a deeper role, still just about offers enough to drive on the midfield. They need to identify a replacement soon, but the Irishman remains good enough to play at the top.

Darren Fletcher has a bright future ahead of him and Wes Brown is finally getting enough games under his belt to remind everybody that he still expects to play an important role for England, let alone United.


Van Nistelrooy needs a break to look for his shooting boots


However, evolution is happening at Old Trafford, and not just in the boardroom.

When Ferguson retreats to his holiday villa on the Cote D'Azur next Monday he will not idle his time away. He is already preparing for the new season on 13 August.

A new keeper will be signed in the next few weeks; there was no room for the Nevilles against Arsenal; Ryan Giggs played only a bit-part despite his new two-year deal; Paul Scholes' effectiveness could be on the wane; and Michael Owen could yet be a surprise summer transfer target.

United's tactics against Arsenal were spot on. All Ferguson has to do now is find a way for his willing team to start scoring again.

Perhaps all they need is a good rest, especially Ruud van Nistelrooy, who, at times, cut a forlorn figure at Cardiff. Still not at his sharpest after a long injury lay-off, the Dutchman needs a break to look for his shooting boots.


For those United fans still feeling down in the dumps, the Cup final defeat could yet galvanise United's desire next season when they will have a big point to prove against Arsenal, Chelsea and the rest.