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Thread: All-Ireland League Thread

  1. #581
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    "Everyone has their price"

    Bingo!

    You have actually hit the nail on the head, probably without realising it.

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    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    I think its almost at the stage now, any club on the Island that doesn't want to be part of an elite top division simply lacks ambition.

    Small island, just under 7m population, pool resources in terms of talent, get the best sides testing themselves out weekly against better quality side, will make for a much higher quality and will have qualifying clubs better prepared for europe.

    The travel thing is just a ridiculous argument, Derry, Finn Harps, Cork City and Cobh to name 4 have all been doing that since 1985 and Harps since 1969.

    AIL is the way forward to push the standard up, a tv deal will make it attractive to clubs. TV games on a friday night, sat early evening, this is a market ready to go an I don't understand why any club wont want to be a part of this.

    IL clubs could still retain their 3pm games for home matches for non tv games, what is there to lose? Euro places can be negotiated with uefa.
    Last edited by oriel; 12/07/2020 at 7:07 PM.
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  4. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    "Everyone has their price"

    Bingo!

    You have actually hit the nail on the head, probably without realising it.
    I know what I said. And I said it because all the clubs are asking is for the IFA to listen to what's there and see if the offers hit their price.

  5. #584
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    I think its almost at the stage now, any club on the Island that doesn't want to be part of an elite top division simply lacks ambition.

    Small island, just under 7m population, pool resources in terms of talent, get the best sides testing themselves out weekly against better quality side, will make for a much higher quality and will have qualifying clubs better prepared for europe.

    The travel thing is just a ridiculous argument, Derry, Finn Harps, Cork City and Cobh to name 4 have all been doing that since 1985 and Harps since 1969.

    AIL is the way forward to push the standard up, a tv deal will make it attractive to clubs. TV games on a friday night, sat early evening, this is a market ready to go an I don't understand why any club wont want to be a part of this.

    IL clubs could still retain their 3pm games for home matches for non tv games, what is there to lose? Euro places can be negotiated with uefa.
    Which clubs have said they don't want to be part of an AIL?

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    The standard of the LOI is low enough as it is without inviting the minnows from the north-east.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    This consistently rehashed discussion is the pits of foot.ie this past year.

    Club don't want to give a committment to a league that has given no financial committment beyond 'there will be money'.

    Other club says "let's give this a look, it could be worth considering".

    Another club remains skeptical, naturally, because of a lack of guarantees and largely hot air from those pursuing the running of the league.

    Lucids proposal is one of intrigue to all. Nobody has disputed that much.

    Lucid has thrown out big expectations without any guarantees.

    TV money is great, but 'a 6 figure sum' between all the clubs is not anything worthwhile.

    Travel is normal for Harps, Derry, Cork, Cobh...but it is not for IL clubs. It is a legitimate concern for them for little financial return.

    Standard is not going to burst through the roof immediately. It'll take time. Likewise, attendances will take time to grow.

    People just want to know where the money is going to come from. And that's perfectly reasonable.

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  9. #587
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    The standard of the LOI is low enough as it is without inviting the minnows from the north-east.
    Grow up.

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    Pat Fenlon was on Rte Soccer podcast and essentially said that the clubs in NI were interested in exploring an AIL and they were disappointed with the IFA for not giving it a proper look nevermind the (very little) support needed to get a good idea of what finances would be in place.

    So the idea that the NIFL were somehow against it because they didn't want to be involved with LOI clubs and the financial roller-coaster they all seem to be on can be considered blown right out of the water. It's purely the IFA not wanting to lose control of the league at this stage

  11. #589
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    Which clubs have said they don't want to be part of an AIL?
    This would suggest these two are not, reported last week that a letter has been signed by every Danske Bank Premiership club except Dungannon and Cliftonville (in support of the AIL).
    Last edited by oriel; 13/07/2020 at 2:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Of course you can. It's comparing the top 10 supported clubs in NI with the top 10 supported clubs in ROI.

    I mean, if the IL only had, say, 8 teams, but the LOI had 16, would you consider a simple average for each league as being valid for comparative purposes?
    To divert back to this comparison bit for a minute. Ignoring the fact that there are clubs in the First Division with higher average attendances than UCD/Finn Harps : each league and division in football is effectively like an ecosystem. That's why the figures you see comparing leagues around Europe don't just randomly slice off the number of teams in the league at a notional point for comparative attendance purposes; they instead treat the league as a whole and then divide it by the number of clubs or games to get to averages.

    Therefore to get the full picture when looking at the LOI PD, you can't exclude certain clubs within it. And if you do, then it would only make sense to exclude not just their home attendances, but also their away ones. Because they're part of that 'ecosystem', and their low number of fans and limited appeal as a fixture therefore drags down the averages of other clubs when they play them. So by removing only their home fixtures you still obscure the figures of everyone else as if that club is still involved (via its away games).

    In short - treat leagues as whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Meant to say, the one town you missed out was Bangor, which has a population of around 60k - hadn't thought it so big myself, tbf. As well as football, the town used to have a thriving senior rugby club, but like numerous others, they've suffered very badly since the advent of professionalism. Hockey is also quite big, I believe.

    Anyhow, Bangor FC were long a senior team in the old Irish League, without ever doing very much at all. Then they seemed to hit all sorts of financial troubles in more recent years, eventually withdrawing voluntarily from the Premiership in 2009. Although it spared them the embarrassment of going bust, they soon dropped right down into Intermediate football, where they languished for a few years.

    The good news, however, is that they're now showing a bit of ambition and talking about getting back into senior football:

    Bangor were traditionally a permanent part of the Irish League's top-flight, but the last decade has seen the Seasiders plummet down the divisions and out of senior football.

    They are now back in the Irish League's third-tier and [manager Lee] Feeney has not shied away from setting his new players very definite targets.

    "Bangor is a big club, I understand the pressure that will come with the job and I will embrace it. First and foremost we have to get out of this Premier Intermediate. I believe it's possible to get back into the Premiership within three years."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53093786

    Meanwhile, from this list of Irish towns (NI and ROI), you'll see that two other NI towns break the 30k mark. However, Newtownabbey (65k) is more an administrative concoction than a "town" proper (it's all Belfast, really), whilst Lisburn (45k) is morphing into Belfast by the day:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population
    I'd covered Bangor, Lisburn and Netownabbey, as they're all included in Greater Belfast.

    Beyond those places, the next size of town in NI appears to be a lot of places at 20-30,000. I can't think of anywhere in between (?). It's just a casual observation that it seems strange that so many places are at the same size. And a lot of Irish League club towns too (Coleraine, Ballymena, Carrick, Ards, Newry, Portadown, Lurgan, Dungannon). No doubt it'll change over time as some grow faster than others.

  14. #592
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    I'd covered Bangor, Lisburn and Netownabbey, as they're all included in Greater Belfast.
    What?

    I might allow some leeway with Lisburn (though not much), but Bangor?



    We all make mistakes from time-to-time, me as much as anyone.

    But if you do and get caught out, take my advice and don't try and bluff and bluster your way out of it, since it only reduces your credibility.

    Further.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    To divert back to this comparison bit for a minute. Ignoring the fact that there are clubs in the First Division with higher average attendances than UCD/Finn Harps :
    Hang on there a minute...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    What?

    I might allow some leeway with Lisburn (though not much), but Bangor?



    We all make mistakes from time-to-time, me as much as anyone.

    But if you do and get caught out, take my advice and don't try and bluff and bluster your way out of it, since it only reduces your credibility.

    Further.
    1) That map you've posted is wrong. Bangor is directly in line with the 'crease' at the top of Strangford Lough. The map you've posted shows it further east, where Orlock is. Look it up on Google maps or a good old fashioned atlas if you don't believe me.
    2) Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area. That's not my decision or definition btw - it's just a statement of fact.
    3) I've no idea what your last point is about. I'm assuming it was irony, given your numerous faux pas re Bangor here
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 13/07/2020 at 5:26 PM.

  17. #595
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    1) That map you've posted is wrong. Bangor is directly in line with the 'crease' at the top of Strangford Lough. The map you've posted shows it further east, where Orlock is. Look it up on Google maps or a good old fashioned atlas if you don't believe me.
    OK, try this one:



    Then try and tell me that Bangor is in Belfast.

    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    2) Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area. That's not my decision or definition btw - it's just a statement of fact.
    The BMA is an administrative grouping of six Council areas in the region.

    Six separate councils.

    One of those councils is this one: http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/counci...urcouncil.aspx

    No sign of Bangor there, funnily enough, though you might have better luck here: http://www.ardsandnorthdown.gov.uk/


    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    3) I've no idea what your last point is about. I'm assuming it was irony, given your numerous faux pas re Bangor here
    Now I know how Father Ted felt:



    "Belfast is big, but Bangor is far away..."
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 13/07/2020 at 6:42 PM.

  18. #596
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Pat Fenlon was on Rte Soccer podcast and essentially said that the clubs in NI were interested in exploring an AIL and they were disappointed with the IFA for not giving it a proper look nevermind the (very little) support needed to get a good idea of what finances would be in place.

    So the idea that the NIFL were somehow against it because they didn't want to be involved with LOI clubs and the financial roller-coaster they all seem to be on can be considered blown right out of the water. It's purely the IFA not wanting to lose control of the league at this stage
    Important to note that continue Linfield to roll out Pat Fenlon when the AIL is mentioned. Social distancing by Linfield at its best.

    The NIFL is and run a league. They can't have a position on the AIL.

    The IFA don't control the NIFL, therefore they can't lose control it.

  19. #597
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    This would suggest these two are not, reported last week that a letter has been signed by every Danske Bank Premiership club except Dungannon and Cliftonville (in support of the AIL).
    The signing or otherwise of a letter is meaningless in determining which clubs are pro or anti an AIL.

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    Mr.Parker, have you spoken to many other Cliftonville fans about this? Would you say, in general, are they for or against an AIL? Or any other Irish League fans for that matter?

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    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    "Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area"

    They will be spitting out their pinot grigio on the gold coast, with statements like that!

  22. #600
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    Mr.Parker, have you spoken to many other Cliftonville fans about this? Would you say, in general, are they for or against an AIL? Or any other Irish League fans for that matter?
    I would imagine the vast majority of Cliftonville fans would like to see an AIL again. After all, we founded the first one!

    The majority of IL fans appear to be against it. I can only go by a poll taken on another forum, but that must be caveated by saying that the questions posed were based on the initial Lucid proposals.
    Last edited by Mr_Parker; 13/07/2020 at 7:28 PM. Reason: ..

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