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Thread: All-Ireland League Thread

  1. #521
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Looking like Portadown will be back in the top tier of the IL, replacing Institute:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53149085

    They're probably still a long way off it, but if/when they ever did get their act together properly, they might have realistic hopes for an AIL spot some day?

    Certainly from a local pov, it could help the IL to have another "biggish" team from outside Belfast in the top flight. And local derbies with the Wee Glens will add a bit of interest too.
    Great to see Portadown back in the big league where they belong. I know we got Dean Fitzgerald from there and he turned out to be a quality signing for us. We played them in a friendly in 04 and I am sorry I didnt go to the game as would have loved to be in that ground.
    The only grounds I have being in the North is the Brandywell, The Oval and Windsor park. I have drove past Newrys ground and Crusaders also!
    Pls god when I get back working and our season restarts and yer season restarts I am going to a match up in the North as miss going up there!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  2. #522
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    Great to see Portadown back in the big league where they belong. I know we got Dean Fitzgerald from there and he turned out to be a quality signing for us. We played them in a friendly in 04 and I am sorry I didnt go to the game as would have loved to be in that ground.
    Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

    Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
    "The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
    https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

    Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

    Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising 36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

    Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience!

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    The only grounds I have being in the North is the Brandywell, The Oval and Windsor park. I have drove past Newrys ground and Crusaders also!
    Pls god when I get back working and our season restarts and yer season restarts I am going to a match up in the North as miss going up there!
    Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
    Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
    It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

    I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
    https://www.footballgroundguide.com/...gue-clubs.html

  3. #523
    Reserves kksaints's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

    Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
    "The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
    https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

    Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

    Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising 36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

    Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience!


    Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
    Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
    It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

    I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
    https://www.footballgroundguide.com/...gue-clubs.html
    Solitude is a strange ground. The ends behind the goals are fine and in good condition but the main stand is dilapidated and is in an awful state. Opposite the main stand is quite simply nothing, not even a terrace. Pitch is in rag order, far worse than anything Oriel was ever in.

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  5. #524
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

    Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
    "The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
    https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

    Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

    Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising 36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

    Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience!


    Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
    Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
    It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

    I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
    https://www.footballgroundguide.com/...gue-clubs.html
    Fair play to you EG thats exactly wot I need! I had being in Crusaders ground last season in a friendly when we played Crusaders there when Neale Fenn was managing us.
    I might give you a shout next season when going to one of your games as I hate going to matches on my own if you are around as would be great getting to know other opposition fans.
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Looking like Portadown will be back in the top tier of the IL, replacing Institute:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53149085

    They're probably still a long way off it, but if/when they ever did get their act together properly, they might have realistic hopes for an AIL spot some day?

    Certainly from a local pov, it could help the IL to have another "biggish" team from outside Belfast in the top flight. And local derbies with the Wee Glens will add a bit of interest too.
    As a longstandign club with a half-decent fanbase, you'd definitely expect Ports to be in with a shot. Have they managed to get rid of the problem they had with loyalist paramilitaries and their social club a few years back?

    One thing that's mad about the north though. Apart from Greater Belfast and Derry, the next level of size town there seems to be the 20-30,000 people bracket, with very few places in between. Ballymena, Coleraine, Portadown, Dungannon, Lurgan, Antrim, Larne, Omagh, Newry. They're all in that same 20-30,000 size bracket. It's weird that all the main regional towns are roughly the same size, and there's nothing bigger until you get up to Derry and Greater Belfast.

  7. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

    Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
    "The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
    https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

    Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

    Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising 36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

    Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience!


    Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
    Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
    It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

    I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
    https://www.footballgroundguide.com/...gue-clubs.html
    Is Shamrock Park near the train station at all?

  8. #527
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    It's walkable, but it's a decent walk. 20 minutes plus I think?

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  10. #528
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    As a longstandign club with a half-decent fanbase, you'd definitely expect Ports to be in with a shot. Have they managed to get rid of the problem they had with loyalist paramilitaries and their social club a few years back?

    One thing that's mad about the north though. Apart from Greater Belfast and Derry, the next level of size town there seems to be the 20-30,000 people bracket, with very few places in between. Ballymena, Coleraine, Portadown, Dungannon, Lurgan, Antrim, Larne, Omagh, Newry. They're all in that same 20-30,000 size bracket. It's weird that all the main regional towns are roughly the same size, and there's nothing bigger until you get up to Derry and Greater Belfast.
    What is the population of Belfast and derry btw?
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  11. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    It's walkable, but it's a decent walk. 20 minutes plus I think?
    Thanks PS. Worth the trip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    What is the population of Belfast and derry btw?
    Hard to say with Belfast, as where does it start and end (same issue with all cities really). But the city itself apparently about a third of a million. Way more once you include all the bits its basically connected to continuously, including big places like Bangor and Lisburn. It's by far the second biggest city on the island.

    Derry's about 100,000.

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  14. #531
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Population is a bit of a loose term now. Metropolitan populations, urban population, there's differing statistics for each. As EYG says, you don't really know where the bigger cities start or end now.

    Derry urban area has about 90,000 of a population, but the greater Derry city council area is around about 110,000. Metro population, taking in suburbs and such, up to 240,000.

    Likewise Belfast City itself is around about 340,000, but metro population takes in 670,000.

  15. #532
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    Thanks PS. Worth the trip?
    Depends what you want out of it I guess!

    Decent ground, if showing its age in parts ("traditional" if you prefer)

    Not the most salubrious of areas from memory, but no Linfield either.

    Football - you know what to expect from the IL! Hearty fare, let's say

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  17. #533
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Population is a bit of a loose term now. Metropolitan populations, urban population, there's differing statistics for each. As EYG says, you don't really know where the bigger cities start or end now.

    Derry urban area has about 90,000 of a population, but the greater Derry city council area is around about 110,000. Metro population, taking in suburbs and such, up to 240,000.

    Likewise Belfast City itself is around about 340,000, but metro population takes in 670,000.
    Whats Dublin Nige?
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    Whats Dublin Nige?
    I might be wrong, but I believe it's an old, old wooden ship.


    Seriously though, inside the city itself, just over half a million. Dublin is an awkward one though, as the greater Dublin area encompasses parts of Meath, Wicklow and Kildare now so hard to use that figure, which sits at 1.9 million. But the county itself is around about 1.4 million.

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  20. #535
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    For reference the population of Cork city since the boundary change is ~210k (up from about 150) and the metro area is about 300k.

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  22. #536
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kksaints View Post
    Solitude is a strange ground. The ends behind the goals are fine and in good condition but the main stand is dilapidated and is in an awful state. Opposite the main stand is quite simply nothing, not even a terrace. Pitch is in rag order, far worse than anything Oriel was ever in.
    TH e pitch is not in "rag order" but meets the highest standards set by FIFA.

    As for the old stand, government promised money some years back for clubs to build new stands. Hence any work on its upkeep was stopped because it was to be knocked down and a new one built. However 5 years of no government stopped any progression. Opposite the stand, that area was a large covered terrace, there are plans for it, but the old stand comes first.

  23. #537
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Some interesting stats from the NIFL:

    "Although the Premiership season was curtailed because of the Covid-19 pandemic, attendances still showed a healthy increase from the previous campaign.

    The Premiership had a total of 221,733 paying customers in the 186 matches that were played during the 2019/20 season, which worked out at an average of 1,192 per game, an increase of 103 on last season's figures.

    Champions Linfield were again the best supported club in the country with an average home attendance of 2,365, though a rejuvenated Glentoran were the second most watched side with 2,060 on average attending their matches at the Oval, a jump of 30% on last term.

    There was also an increase in support for runners-up Coleraine as Oran Kearney's side attracted an average of 1,571 spectators per match through the turnstiles, while new boys Larne also showed up well in fourth with an average of 1,421.

    Over the last few years there has been an upsurge in the crowds attending Premiership games across the province. For example this season's average of 1,192 per game is an impressive 37.1% higher than the average recorded for the 2013/14 season."


    I know these don't really compare with the LOI PD, but if you took Institute and Warrenpoint out, then the 10 team average would look a bit closer.

    EDIT: Just done the arithmetic, w.o. Stute and Point, the top 10 averaged 1,370, versus 2,159 for LOI PD (2019).

    Add to that Portadown being there next season and it should get another boost.
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 06/07/2020 at 5:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    I know these don't really compare with the LOI PD, but if you took Institute and Warrenpoint out, then the 10 team average would look a bit closer.

    EDIT: Just done the arithmetic, w.o. Stute and Point, the top 10 averaged 1,370, versus 2,159 for LOI PD (2019).
    You can't just wish away the Irish League's two worst supported clubs for comparison purposes. If you're going down that road then lop off the bottom two in the LOI as well and see how they compare. Especially whe the variation in attendances between UCD and everyone else in the LOI PD last year was much wider than between Stute/Warrenpoint and everyone else in the north.

    I suspect the average would have fallen a bit in the north had the season played out as well. In January it looked like 4 or 5 (?) clubs could win the league. By lockdown it was basically Linfield's title, with I think Coleraine in with a shout and everyone else essentially out of the running. So crowds would naturally have tailed off a bit at a number of clubs because of that.

    Still - good to see crowds on the up in the north all the same.

    What's happening with the Irish Cup this year ?

  25. #539
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    UCDs attendances last season wouldn't have been a great deal lower than Warrenpoint or Institute.

    Stute got a nice bump from their first few games in the Brandywell but were down to their usual 300 or so quickly after 5 or 6 games. They're lucky in a way they get a handful of LOI supporters of Harps and Derry watching them over Nov/Dec when the season is out here too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    UCDs attendances last season wouldn't have been a great deal lower than Warrenpoint or Institute.
    UCD may well have even been higher than those other cliubs' average if we're honest. But my point was that the gap between UCD and the other LOI clubs was bigger than the gap between Stute/Point and the other IL clubs. So cutting off the weaker team(s) skews the average much more in NI than in the LOI.

    EG may say he chopped the 2 northern sides off because the northern league has more teams. But averages exist to deal with that, and as said I don't think you can view part of a league vs all of a league in that way.

    Though in reality we're talking about small crowds vs a bit smaller crowds for both the leagues and the teams counted in it.

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