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Thread: All-Ireland League Thread

  1. #21
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    What I thought was most interesting on that segment was the body language of Byrne and the looks he was giving when Mooney mentioned about 'not moaning about the past'. Mooney was very civil in his manner but it concealed a few barbs. That aside I dont know what else he could say really. Nothing concrete has been decided on an AIL or LoI plans. The FAI are still waiting for reports so its all as you were until these are forthcoming. All he could say he did say imo without getting in to hot water.

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  3. #22
    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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  5. #23
    Reserves A N Mouse's Avatar
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    I had something with more substance myself but tried to edit and deleted the post.

    Couldn't quite put my finger on it originally, but finally figured out what annoyed me so about the video.

    It's fecking Ollie Byrne's shels only with the whole league!

  6. #24
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Agreed. European success and the money it would generate would be great, but I don't think there's any particular indication as to how it would come about.

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Figure of 5mil being bandied about with league winners getting 800k. Now Peter Collins said something similar so probably where those figures are what people were talking about since - be very interesting to know where such money will be generated and whether it can be sustained. Even if a lucrative TV deal was reached for say 5 years, if it wasnt renewed to similar figures what is the fall back position. How have other leagues eg lower division in Scotland covered their backs in the event of a fall off in sponsorship/TV money. There has to be something there if the last team in 3 division in Scotland is getting something like 7 times what both IL and LoI champions get.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Well we saw with the ITV Digital collapse that clubs hadn't covered their backs in the event of a fall-off.

    So yeah, if this were to go ahead and then collapse after five years, where does that leave clubs? Can you go back to two leagues? Would clubs - being encouraged to go with 2/3 year contracts - suddenly find themselves going bust?

    The aims are absolutely admirable. They've painted the right picture of the future of the league - I just don't see how it's going to happen.

    It's actually a very similar idea to the old PCA document, although in that case, Europe/transfer fees was a measure of success, to be achieved by a much greater investment from the FAI and incremental increases, with a portion of proceeds being reinvested into the league and the FAI. But in this case, Europe/transfer fees almost seem to be the starting point - is it Lucid who's talking about being the 25th ranked league in 6 years? It's like the cart is being put before the horse.

    I'd be steering away from this from what I've seen so far.

  9. #27
    Apprentice Kiki Balboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Well we saw with the ITV Digital collapse that clubs hadn't covered their backs in the event of a fall-off.

    So yeah, if this were to go ahead and then collapse after five years, where does that leave clubs? Can you go back to two leagues? Would clubs - being encouraged to go with 2/3 year contracts - suddenly find themselves going bust?

    The aims are absolutely admirable. They've painted the right picture of the future of the league - I just don't see how it's going to happen.

    It's actually a very similar idea to the old PCA document, although in that case, Europe/transfer fees was a measure of success, to be achieved by a much greater investment from the FAI and incremental increases, with a portion of proceeds being reinvested into the league and the FAI. But in this case, Europe/transfer fees almost seem to be the starting point - is it Lucid who's talking about being the 25th ranked league in 6 years? It's like the cart is being put before the horse.

    I'd be steering away from this from what I've seen so far.

    Clubs go Bust now in the current format.

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  11. #28
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    That's not really an argument for a new format though.

    In fact, that's not really an argument of any sort at all really.

  12. #29
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I vaguely remember clubs getting money to upgrade floodlights to suit Sky Sports coverage back in the 90's. The TV deal didnt happen in the end so money recieved from the FAI in advance to get lights up to TV coverage needs ended up as loans to be paid back to the FAI - is this a strange dream or is there something to this really vague recall??

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Nope, it happened.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/nat...vision-1.75760

    Different times though. Not a hope in hell of this happening now -

    Under UEFA rules a country's football association when agreeing television coverage must have the permission of associations potentially affected by that coverage. With matches from the Premiership being widely seen here, the FAI are entitled to compensation for lost crowds at games here.

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  15. #31
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post

    Another video version of the presentation

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B4FrSXPA...d=eueqgfg2c914

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  17. #32
    First Team Buller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    Another video version of the presentation

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B4FrSXPA...d=eueqgfg2c914
    Wow, you can really see Lucid has been working on these plans for years. Very professional and he has a great way of expressing his ideas clearly... really worked the room!
    Last edited by Buller; 27/10/2019 at 10:50 AM.

  18. #33
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    Another video version of the presentation

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B4FrSXPA...d=eueqgfg2c914
    Not the first time Dundalk havent featured in AIL chatter....

    You seem to have significant contempt for this Mr Parker, or is it just being reserved until there are concrete finances in place? There has been a tendancy for LoI fans to look down on IL over the years so has this swayed peception among IL fans? It is concievable that (bar Linfield maybe) the early years of an AIL would be generally dominated by LoI clubs. Short term pain for long term gain has to be part of Lucid's selling point...
    Last edited by Nesta99; 27/10/2019 at 11:19 AM.

  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Nope, it happened.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/nat...vision-1.75760

    Different times though. Not a hope in hell of this happening now -
    Thanks for that Stu! I really was questioning recall and where SKY were influencing LoI money and it ending up as a burden rather than benefit to clubs here.

  20. #35
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Not the first time Dundalk havent featured in AIL chatter....

    You seem to have significant contempt for this Mr Parker, or is it just being reserved until there are concrete finances in place? There has been a tendancy for LoI fans to look down on IL over the years so has this swayed peception among IL fans? It is concievable that (bar Linfield maybe) the early years of an AIL would be generally dominated by LoI clubs. Short term pain for long term gain has to be part of Lucid's selling point...
    I don't have contempt for the idea, but have concerns that people are rushing to support something, that as you say, offers nothing concrete. There have been North-South initiatives/competitions for decades. Not one survives. The motivation to support the Lucid plan for some clubs must be questioned, particularly with some LOI clubs, who are desperate to grasp any straw purely based on the big numbers being flashed in front of them, rather than solid business and sporting reasons.

    My contempt is reserved for some in the Southern media, who have belittled what NIFL and their clubs have achieved in developing, good facilities, and sustainable and strong league, and then play the political card by referring to NIFL clubs as Unionist, Nationalist, Catholic and Protestant.
    Last edited by Mr_Parker; 27/10/2019 at 12:15 PM.

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  22. #36
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Fair comment! I san see why some clubs would be drawn in to anything that potentially offers greater revenue - Dundalk, if not top of the heap now would certainly have been circa 2011/12. As for the media commentary, I havent paid too much attention. What IL clubs have done to develop facilities has to be lauded but how many have had significant Stormont/public money backing? Have things changed socially that clubs' general support base are no longer aligned along religious or political peruasions?

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    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Fair comment! I san see why some clubs would be drawn in to anything that potentially offers greater revenue - Dundalk, if not top of the heap now would certainly have been circa 2011/12. As for the media commentary, I havent paid too much attention. What IL clubs have done to develop facilities has to be lauded but how many have had significant Stormont/public money backing? Have things changed socially that clubs' general support base are no longer aligned along religious or political peruasions?
    Funding has come from various pots of money including UEFA and public money as well as self financing. The religious or political make up of the fans of a NIFL club is as relevant as that of a LOI club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    That's not really an argument for a new format though.

    In fact, that's not really an argument of any sort at all really.
    To put it in basic terms : Irish clubs are generally run on a shoestring.

    An AIL league offers a chance for them to become more financially viable, through more revenue in the game.

    Ask a poor person if they'd rather remain poor - or have a shot at being financially stable.

    Why couldn't clubs go back to 2 leagues if it didn't work out and they needed to ? This could be expressly agreed with UEFA in advance (I see no reason why they wouldn't agree to it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Not the first time Dundalk havent featured in AIL chatter....

    You seem to have significant contempt for this Mr Parker, or is it just being reserved until there are concrete finances in place? There has been a tendancy for LoI fans to look down on IL over the years so has this swayed peception among IL fans? It is concievable that (bar Linfield maybe) the early years of an AIL would be generally dominated by LoI clubs. Short term pain for long term gain has to be part of Lucid's selling point...
    There is also a tendency among a significant number of IL fans to look down on the LOI. Spend a few minutes on their forum and you'll see it.

    Views such as the LOI being a financial basketcase, and the AIL being all about the LOI needing clubs from the north.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Parker View Post
    Funding has come from various pots of money including UEFA and public money as well as self financing. The religious or political make up of the fans of a NIFL club is as relevant as that of a LOI club.
    I'd disagree on that. We can't pretend that religion and politics doesn't influence and polarise every aspect of life in Northern Ireland, because it clearly does.

    Football in the north is dominated by clubs from unionist areas or traditions. Just go through in your head all the clubs and you'll see it. That has influenced heavily how the north looks at things in football. The IFA (who's members are drawn up from clubs) has a largely unionist mindset - as seen by its refusal to change the flag or anthem of the NI team, and by the farce around the British anthem being sung at IFA Cup Finals regardless of who features in them. The vast majority of supporters of clubs in the IL are from a unionist background. This is clear form the demographics of the areas the clubs are from, the flags and banners at games etc. A large portion of them want nothing to do with an all-island league out of ideology and politics. That is evident on forums.

    To pretend that religion and politics is irrelevant to all of this is to refuse to see the obvious. There isn't a vaguely popular part of NI life that isn't heavily influenced by religion and politics, and football is no different

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