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Thread: All-Ireland League Thread

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    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Are you drunk? You seem to be implying that I said setting deadlines was a bad thing when I said the exact opposite.
    Setting deadlines is an idiotic thing, when you don't have anything to back it up.

    I mean, if he can't persuade the IFA, who else is he going to go to instead to get the IL clubs on board?

    I suppose he could always take his money elsewhere.

    If he had any...

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    You were speaking in the present tense RH and I responded accordingly. I am aware that this project could deliver a number of benefits but only if it happens. Doing all to make it happen is needed but I doubt its failure will cost existing jobs as you suggest. You once again have not actually dealt with what I have said in countering your increasingly desperate point!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 19/05/2020 at 10:27 AM.

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    Meanwhile, yet another LOI PD club must be dreading the next letter from the bank:

    [Lee] Power says Swindon have lost a significant amount of money from not being able to play fixtures during the lockdown.

    He said an exact figure was "difficult to quantify" but added: "It's well into its millions, not hundreds of thousands, of cash flow that has been lost."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52706893

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Setting deadlines is an idiotic thing, when you don't have anything to back it up.

    I mean, if he can't persuade the IFA, who else is he going to go to instead to get the IL clubs on board?

    I suppose he could always take his money elsewhere.

    If he had any...
    Setting deadlines is how business is done. Deadlines are how everything is done actually.

    A yes take his AIL money to that other All Ireland Football league...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    You were speaking in the present tense RH and I responded accordingly. I am aware that this project could deliver a number of benefits but only if it happens. Doing all to make it happen is needed but I doubt its failure will cost existing jobs as you suggest. You once again have not actually dealt with what I have said in countering your increasingly desperate point!
    I wasn't talking in preset tense at all, I was explicitly talking about someone pitching the AIL to investors, TV rights buyers, sponsors. Its literally the whole conversion we're having. Keep up.

    If you are in charge of spending a fund of money designed to generate income and you don't meet your targets your job is in trouble, if that is partially down to the fact you put a significant chunk of money aside for a project that was nothing more than an idea on paper relying on a group of historically renowned bigots working with those they're bigoted against.
    Well then you're up **** creek without a paddle

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Meanwhile, yet another LOI PD club must be dreading the next letter from the bank:

    [Lee] Power says Swindon have lost a significant amount of money from not being able to play fixtures during the lockdown.

    He said an exact figure was "difficult to quantify" but added: "It's well into its millions, not hundreds of thousands, of cash flow that has been lost."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52706893
    Irrelevant to the conversation. You're just showing your true petty colours now

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    First Team Buller's Avatar
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    Dutch and Belgian leagues set for merger.

    The consulting company Deloitte has calculated that a so-called BeNe League could generate in the region of €400m a year in television revenue. In comparison, both the Dutch and Belgium top leagues earn about €80m a season in television revenue at the moment.

    So together currently generate €160m between them at the moment, and joining together would push that to €400m.

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/nether...ew/news/354233

    Joining two markets pushes value up disproportionately higher than you would expect.

    Very obvious opportunity to pump money into both domestic leagues. I think Lucid set a minimum prize money figure of a few million that would have to be secured before it would go-ahead.

    I don't see anything to lose by trying?!

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  8. #407
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Setting deadlines is how business is done. Deadlines are how everything is done actually.
    You don't set deadlines you can't keep yourself, if you want to do business. KL indicated last June that he wanted a response by "the autumn", otherwise he couldn't wait around forever.

    Then when he didn't get the response he wanted, he suddenly was able to wait around. Even though nearly a year later he still has nothing to offer in terms of hard cash, or even an assurance in principle of same. (Note the words "in principle", btw).

    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    A yes take his AIL money to that other All Ireland Football league...
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but just so as you know what I meant, I was merely pointing out that if he cannot satisfy the IL/IFA, then he has nowhere else to go. Meaning that it was silly to try to impose unrealistic deadlines on them.
    And even sillier when he then had to row back on his deadlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    If you are in charge of spending a fund of money designed to generate income and you don't meet your targets your job is in trouble, if that is partially down to the fact you put a significant chunk of money aside for a project that was nothing more than an idea on paper relying on a group of historically renowned bigots working with those they're bigoted against.
    There you go again.

    Mr. P, who has direct, personal experience in this matter, has explicitly stated that your alleged "bigotry" has nothing to do with any of this.

    I have previously pointed out the numerous activities where the IFA has happily and willingly co-operated with the FAI, including:
    Blaxnit
    Setanta
    Carling Nations Cup
    Victory Shield
    Presidents Cup
    Champions Cup
    Regions Cup
    UEFA U-21 Joint Bid
    (Those are off the top of my head - there are others if I could be bothered to look)

    I have pointed out where 4 of the 5 key figures at the top of the IFA are from a CNR background, plus many other staff at all levels.

    It has also been pointed out that the most vocal support from amongst leading IL clubs has come from the Crues, whereas the most vocal opposition has come from the Reds.

    And Lucid himself gave "credit" [sic] to the IFA for still keeping dialogue open only this morning.

    ALL of the above constitutes clear proof that your allegations of "bigotry" are completely unfounded, indeed offensively so, whilst offering no evidence of your own.

    Which is richly ironic, since another word for "bigotry" is "prejudice" i.e. to pre-judge.

    And you have looked at this issue, saw the name "IFA" and immediately pre-judged them, mind made up.

    "Physician heal thyself..."
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 19/05/2020 at 11:50 AM.

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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Never heard of Newington are they a belfast based team? I didnt look at the IFA website properly stupid Q what does CNR stand for? Is that catholic nationalist republican?
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Setting deadlines is how business is done. Deadlines are how everything is done actually.

    A yes take his AIL money to that other All Ireland Football league...

    I wasn't talking in preset tense at all, I was explicitly talking about someone pitching the AIL to investors, TV rights buyers, sponsors. Its literally the whole conversion we're having. Keep up.

    If you are in charge of spending a fund of money designed to generate income and you don't meet your targets your job is in trouble, if that is partially down to the fact you put a significant chunk of money aside for a project that was nothing more than an idea on paper relying on a group of historically renowned bigots working with those they're bigoted against.
    Well then you're up **** creek without a paddle
    I am well ahead of you RH, I am very glad you saw the flaw in my last post! So you were giving a specific example and I responded generically with a stock answer and hence I am not keeping up hmmm, cherry picked a single part of your point and ran with that and you felt it was a moot point? Funny that! I do hope you see the irony! But thank you for assisting me anyway and being predicable including the passive aggresive insults thrown in since you cant really be Angry RH...

    I am bored of this though, people are entitled to their own opinion and interprestation of what is needed. People will make up their own minds on the opinions presented, to continue to flog ones own opinion in slightly varying but essentially the same point over and over has probably had plenty switch off long before now - I am guilty myself of getting sucked in to the going in circles, really saying nothing new, type discussion.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 19/05/2020 at 12:03 PM.

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    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Irrelevant to the conversation. You're just showing your true petty colours now
    When you say "irrelevant to the conversation", you actually mean "inconvenient to the argument".

    For you see, whilst I have freely acknowledged that LOI clubs have legitimate concerns as to the ability of IL clubs to provide competition on the pitch in any AIL, you refuse point blank to acknowledge legitimate IL concerns over the financial stability of many LOI clubs.

    How many LOI clubs have gone bust in recent years; and/or are experiencing real financial difficulties presently; and/or rely completely on a benefactor to stay in business; and/or do not own their own stadium; and/or are running at a loss each year?

    And that's just the PD - don't get me started on the basket-case that is the FD.

    None of which gives me any pleasure; rather as someone who supports an AIL in principle, I don't like to admit either IL or LOI weakness. But in the present economic climate esp, it would be madness for the IL to rush into a speculative venture on a promise, then find they've nothing to fall back on if/when that promise fails to materialise.

    And the case of Waterford FC is just the latest example from down South of the precarious nature of LOI club finances.

    But heyho, that's probably the fault of the DUP, too....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    Never heard of Newington are they a belfast based team? I didnt look at the IFA website properly stupid Q what does CNR stand for? Is that catholic nationalist republican?
    Newington are a progressive Intermediate team from a Nationalist part of the Antrim Road in North Belfast.
    As it happens, they co-operate with their neighbours Crusaders on a number of matters - there was even talk of them building/sharing a new ground a few years back, though that never materialised.

    And yes, you're right about "CNR".

    Ordinarily I hate to use such designations, or to try to ascertain backgrounds from names etc.

    But sometimes when you're faced with ignorant, ill-informed and prejudiced accusations from people like RH, you can't avoid using accepted terms.

    Anyhow, like Nesta99 (above), I've had enough of the debate being dragged down to the gutter by the likes of RH and EYG, so I'll leave it there for now.

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  14. #412
    Seasoned Pro ifk101's Avatar
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    What are Glentoran's operating costs out of interest? I see they publish their balance sheet but curious to know what it costs to run Glentoran on a given year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    You don't set deadlines you can't keep yourself, if you want to do business. KL indicated last June that he wanted a response by "the autumn", otherwise he couldn't wait around forever.

    Then when he didn't get the response he wanted, he suddenly was able to wait around. Even though nearly a year later he still has nothing to offer in terms of hard cash, or even an assurance in principle of same. (Note the words "in principle", btw).
    Nope he didn't say he wouldn't wait around, that was the journalists added comment. What he said was basically no time like the present. And he did get his reasons for delay when clubs said they liked the general idea but not the format.

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but just so as you know what I meant, I was merely pointing out that if he cannot satisfy the IL/IFA, then he has nowhere else to go. Meaning that it was silly to try to impose unrealistic deadlines on them.
    And even sillier when he then had to row back on his deadlines.
    He set feedback deadlines, which were met. How business works.

    There you go again.

    Mr. P, who has direct, personal experience in this matter, has explicitly stated that your alleged "bigotry" has nothing to do with any of this.

    I have previously pointed out the numerous activities where the IFA has happily and willingly co-operated with the FAI, including:
    Blaxnit
    Setanta
    Carling Nations Cup
    Victory Shield
    Presidents Cup
    Champions Cup
    Regions Cup
    UEFA U-21 Joint Bid
    (Those are off the top of my head - there are others if I could be bothered to look)

    I have pointed out where 4 of the 5 key figures at the top of the IFA are from a CNR background, plus many other staff at all levels.

    It has also been pointed out that the most vocal support from amongst leading IL clubs has come from the Crues, whereas the most vocal opposition has come from the Reds.

    And Lucid himself gave "credit" [sic] to the IFA for still keeping dialogue open only this morning.

    ALL of the above constitutes clear proof that your allegations of "bigotry" are completely unfounded, indeed offensively so, whilst offering no evidence of your own.

    Which is richly ironic, since another word for "bigotry" is "prejudice" i.e. to pre-judge.

    And you have looked at this issue, saw the name "IFA" and immediately pre-judged them, mind made up.

    "Physician heal thyself..."
    Are you trying to say with a straight face that the IFA do not have an historical reputation for being bigots? A reputation that may make people hesitant to invest in a project involving them giving up some power and working long term consistently with the FAI? Whether or not the current board members are or not is largely irrelevant because that doubt is in the mind of everyone involved and without written commitments on the IFAs behalf their historical reputation and the number of players electing to play for the FAI does not help them. When you're dealing with business especially marketing departments image is everything and the IFAs image does not portray them as likely to work with the FAI in a power share capacity long term.

    Also lucids hardly going to call them out while he still hopes a deal can be salvaged

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I am well ahead of you RH, I am very glad you saw the flaw in my last post! So you were giving a specific example and I responded generically with a stock answer and hence I am not keeping up hmmm, cherry picked a single part of your point and ran with that and you felt it was a moot point? Funny that! I do hope you see the irony! But thank you for assisting me anyway and being predicable including the passive aggresive insults thrown in since you cant really be Angry RH...

    I am bored of this though, people are entitled to their own opinion and interprestation of what is needed. People will make up their own minds on the opinions presented, to continue to flog ones own opinion in slightly varying but essentially the same point over and over has probably had plenty switch off long before now - I am guilty myself of getting sucked in to the going in circles, really saying nothing new, type discussion.
    You should really be a politician Nesta (not a compliment btw) since all you've said is "you didn't answer my question" without ever actually pointing out what part of the question I didn't answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    When you say "irrelevant to the conversation", you actually mean "inconvenient to the argument".

    For you see, whilst I have freely acknowledged that LOI clubs have legitimate concerns as to the ability of IL clubs to provide competition on the pitch in any AIL, you refuse point blank to acknowledge legitimate IL concerns over the financial stability of many LOI clubs.

    How many LOI clubs have gone bust in recent years; and/or are experiencing real financial difficulties presently; and/or rely completely on a benefactor to stay in business; and/or do not own their own stadium; and/or are running at a loss each year?

    And that's just the PD - don't get me started on the basket-case that is the FD.

    None of which gives me any pleasure; rather as someone who supports an AIL in principle, I don't like to admit either IL or LOI weakness. But in the present economic climate esp, it would be madness for the IL to rush into a speculative venture on a promise, then find they've nothing to fall back on if/when that promise fails to materialise.

    And the case of Waterford FC is just the latest example from down South of the precarious nature of LOI club finances.

    But heyho, that's probably the fault of the DUP, too....
    I have done anything but refuse to acknowledge the financial instability of LOI clubs. I have quite explicitly said that the whole league is financially unstable
    Last edited by RathfarnhamHoop; 19/05/2020 at 1:28 PM.

  18. #416
    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buller View Post
    Dutch and Belgian leagues set for merger.

    The consulting company Deloitte has calculated that a so-called BeNe League could generate in the region of €400m a year in television revenue. In comparison, both the Dutch and Belgium top leagues earn about €80m a season in television revenue at the moment.

    So together currently generate €160m between them at the moment, and joining together would push that to €400m.

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/nether...ew/news/354233

    Joining two markets pushes value up disproportionately higher than you would expect.

    Very obvious opportunity to pump money into both domestic leagues. I think Lucid set a minimum prize money figure of a few million that would have to be secured before it would go-ahead.

    I don't see anything to lose by trying?!
    Buller, there's more to that than meets the eye, I would think, and I'd be sceptical of how likely it is to happen. In terms of competition, clubs, influencing factors etc, there's less need for UEFA to stick their necks out and create precident for merged leagues by making a benelux league (for want of a better term). However the argument holds water, that a precedent is a precedent regardless of who sets it.If I'm wrong on this I'll gladly hold my hands up, but I think it's miles away in this jurisdiction to be honest - unless UEFA start from scratch and leave all options on the table in light of the effects of the pandemic.

    For a start, there are strong rumours on the ground here that there is a serious financial crisis in Belgian football, in a couple of the big clubs. Such a merger of leagues and the increased finance would definitely solve problems.
    I'm not sure about how it would be voted upon, but in Belgium it would likely see opposition from the lower ranked teams who in some cases are over-achieving*. It clearly states 10 Dutch sides and 8 Belgian sides. That definitely creates a two-tier in Belgium, as you could nearly split the big/successful/well-supported clubs over the rest into 8 & 8 in the Jupiler League.

    *There are still issues in governing here, and in the split systems (Walloons and Flanders), despite efforts at trying to patch things up. There's an issue as well with the economy. Brussels aside the Flemish region is in much better financial health than Wallonia. I'm not sure how it would go down in Belgium, allowing the better clubs to join what one could describe as a Dutch/Flemish Super League (only Standard and Charleroi would be considered Wallonian's) thus pushing the Wallonian clubs in general into a poorer Belgian National League.

    Another aspect as well, and it's referenced in the link you put up, is the European Super League prospect. Ajax are going to be all over that possibility. Not really sure what other clubs could push to be part of it (PSV aren't glamourous enough, while Feyenoord haven't had the success, and Anderlecht are small-fish continentally in the modern game).

    I'd be reluctant to use the BE & NL possibility as an example (cue an announcement next month!).
    I'm hugely excited by the possibility of an AIL, and don't underestimate the support at government levels either, either politically, or financially. There is big EU money to be tapped into as well for such a project, and our Ministries are pretty good at extracting such funds.
    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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  20. #417
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    @EalingGreen, you have mentioned one of the fears of IL clubs is that if the new competition fails, IL clubs will have nothing to fall back on. Why is that? If Lucids option 4 goes ahead, both leagues play as normal for two rounds of fixtures before going into the King of the Island cup. So when it goes tits-up, the IL/LOI will still be there. Won't it?

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  22. #418
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    Are you trying to say with a straight face that the IFA do not have an historical reputation for being bigots?
    EG absent-mindedly taps his bigoted Prod fingers as he awaits reference to The Famine, Cromwell and 800 years of oppression, whilst wondering whether RH is ever going to make it into the 21st century.

    Even the 20th century would be an improvement...

    Anyhow, whatever else about him, thank goodness Lucid doesn't share your blinkered, unyielding outlook on life. It offers some hope of progress dealing with the real obstacles which are currently blocking progress, rather the ones mouldering away in your imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    EG absent-mindedly taps his bigoted Prod fingers as he awaits reference to The Famine, Cromwell and 800 years of oppression, whilst wondering whether RH is ever going to make it into the 21st century.

    Even the 20th century would be an improvement...

    Anyhow, whatever else about him, thank goodness Lucid doesn't share your blinkered, unyielding outlook on life. It offers some hope of progress dealing with the real obstacles which are currently blocking progress, rather the ones mouldering away in your imagination.
    Yeah not like the IFA haven't done anything questionable in the last decade.... Nevermind at every international game.

    The only major sport on the island with two national teams. Between that and the GSTQ controversy a marketing director is going to be very sceptical of investing in anything without commitments from both sides.

    And I'm not talking about Lucid I'm talking about the fact you're asking people whose whole job is centred around aesthetics to put significant sums of money on the line without any commitment from one party. You give anyone 30 minutes on Google to look into the relationship between the FAI and the IFA and they will be skeptical to say the least at the prospect of them working together for the long term in a project such as this and thus will not put any money aside for it.
    Last edited by RathfarnhamHoop; 19/05/2020 at 3:11 PM.

  24. #420
    First Team Mr_Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    Newington are a progressive Intermediate team from a Nationalist part of the Antrim Road in North Belfast.
    As it happens, they co-operate with their neighbours Crusaders on a number of matters - there was even talk of them building/sharing a new ground a few years back, though that never materialised.
    Newington moved to Solitude a couple of seasons ago. I was going to say they moved to greener pastures, but was afraid that RathfarnhamHoop would jump all over such terminology

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