All-Ireland League Thread

[Finlay Harp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52661088

[EalingGreen]

Interesting perspective.

This bit caught my eye:
The Brandywell outfit encouraged the respective associations and clubs to carefully study to Lucid's proposal, adding that "professional football is a sport, but it is also a business".

Considering DCFC came within an ace of going bust in 2000, then did so in 2009, needed major public money to upgrade the Brandywell and are only competing at present thanks to the generosity of a benefactor, they've not been "taking care of business" very well themselves before now.

[disgruntled]

Interesting perspective.

This bit caught my eye:
The Brandywell outfit encouraged the respective associations and clubs to carefully study to Lucid's proposal, adding that "professional football is a sport, but it is also a business".

Considering DCFC came within an ace of going bust in 2000, then did so in 2009, needed major public money to upgrade the Brandywell and are only competing at present thanks to the generosity of a benefactor, they've not been "taking care of business" very well themselves before now.

I think very few clubs if any both North & South have much to crow about.
The deciding factor in this may be the attitude of the FAI & IFA.

[EalingGreen]

I think very few clubs if any both North & South have much to crow about.

No doubt. But this was DCFC's statement, not anyone elses.

The deciding factor in this may be the attitude of the FAI & IFA.

That and Lucid's ability to come up with some hard cash from somewhere, rather than vague promises.

[Mr_Parker]

A nonsense that the IFA & the FAI have agreed to jointly examine the report. That is completely untrue.

Also, it's already been well covered, here and elsewhere, that what is being portrayed in regards prize money, is absolute rubbish.

[Mr_Parker]

A reminder

Screenshot_20200514-193339.jpg

[EalingGreen]

A reminder

Screenshot_20200514-193339.jpg

Wow!

A reminder what DCFC were claiming:
"It always shocks fans when they discover that the prize money for winning the League in the north is £22,000 and in the southern league the prize money is €110,000."

Versus reality:

IL Net Prize money 2018/19: £372k

LOI Net Prize Money 2019: £150k (GBP conversion)

IL Net Prize Money 2019/20: £397k

Unless there is something missing from the above figures, then it demonstrates just how Delaney was taking the ****.

[Buller]

Wow, very surprised by this. I think the LOI contribution fees have been permanently axed. They're quite unpopular...

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Interesting perspective.

This bit caught my eye:
The Brandywell outfit encouraged the respective associations and clubs to carefully study to Lucid's proposal, adding that "professional football is a sport, but it is also a business".

Considering DCFC came within an ace of going bust in 2000, then did so in 2009, needed major public money to upgrade the Brandywell and are only competing at present thanks to the generosity of a benefactor, they've not been "taking care of business" very well themselves before now.

Well yeah that's sorta their whole point... that the current format isn't working and clubs are going bust so change is needed. They're not saying that they're a model to follow in the business side of things, if anything they're saying look we're an example of how hard it is to run a club in this island let's work together and fix that.

[EalingGreen]

Well yeah that's sorta their whole point... that the current format isn't working and clubs are going bust so change is needed. They're not saying that they're a model to follow in the business side of things, if anything they're saying look we're an example of how hard it is to run a club in this island let's work together and fix that.

So when you can't/won't operate the present system properly, you just throw it out for a new, untested system instead?

Who's to say they'll do any better in the new Utopia?

And exactly what was so wrong with "living within your means"?

I'm not opposed to an AIL in principle - quite the opposite, in fact.

But DCFC are like some 18 y.o. who's keeps pranging the battered old VW Polo his dad bought him for his first car throwing the head up and demanding to be given a brand new Mercedes SL instead - what could possibly go wrong?

My advice would be to demonstrate you can drive safely in what you have before being let loose with something with a lot more oomph.

(Same applies to all clubs, both sides of the border)

[Mr_Parker]

Wow!

A reminder what DCFC were claiming:
"It always shocks fans when they discover that the prize money for winning the League in the north is £22,000 and in the southern league the prize money is €110,000."

Versus reality:

IL Net Prize money 2018/19: £372k

LOI Net Prize Money 2019: £150k (GBP conversion)

IL Net Prize Money 2019/20: £397k

Unless there is something missing from the above figures, then it demonstrates just how Delaney was taking the ****.

Not only do those figures demonstrate a huge difference in contributions, but the quote of £22k as first prize also needs explained. What The NIFL clubs have agreed is that because 1st place now gets such a large UEFA payment, that the money for that position has been well reduced in order to give more money to the clubs further down the ladder.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

So when you can't/won't operate the present system properly, you just throw it out for a new, untested system instead?

Who's to say they'll do any better in the new Utopia?

And exactly what was so wrong with "living within your means"?

I'm not opposed to an AIL in principle - quite the opposite, in fact.

But DCFC are like some 18 y.o. who's keeps pranging the battered old VW Polo his dad bought him for his first car throwing the head up and demanding to be given a brand new Mercedes SL instead - what could possibly go wrong?

My advice would be to demonstrate you can drive safely in what you have before being let loose with something with a lot more oomph.

(Same applies to all clubs, both sides of the border)

If it was one club making a loss you might have a point about it being an individual problem. When nearly every club in the league is running that's a problem with the system.

To even try suggest that the whole set up of the LOI in particular isn't at fault for a large proportion of the problems clubs in the league face is sheer ignorance.

To borrow your car analogy, it's more like trying to drive with a dodgy accelerator, yes it's possible to do but it's not exactly easy and you'd really rather the problem gets fixed to say the least.

[EatYerGreens]

Interesting perspective.

This bit caught my eye:
The Brandywell outfit encouraged the respective associations and clubs to carefully study to Lucid's proposal, adding that "professional football is a sport, but it is also a business".

Considering DCFC came within an ace of going bust in 2000, then did so in 2009, needed major public money to upgrade the Brandywell and are only competing at present thanks to the generosity of a benefactor, they've not been "taking care of business" very well themselves before now.

Cheap shot aside : are you disagreeing with what they're actually saying ?

[EatYerGreens]

If it was one club making a loss you might have a point about it being an individual problem. When nearly every club in the league is running that's a problem with the system.

To even try suggest that the whole set up of the LOI in particular isn't at fault for a large proportion of the problems clubs in the league face is sheer ignorance.

To borrow your car analogy, it's more like trying to drive with a dodgy accelerator, yes it's possible to do but it's not exactly easy and you'd really rather the problem gets fixed to say the least.

Agree with this. The system is wrong. Is any club in the LOI top tier genuinely sustainable ? And if they are (e.g. Sligo may claim to be), will they remain in that tier for much longer ?

Ealing Green's comments just read like repeated pot shots at Derry City. Ironic given that after years of being a financial basket case, Glentoran is itself now also benefitting from/reliant upon benefaction.

[EalingGreen]

If it was one club making a loss you might have a point about it being an individual problem. When nearly every club in the league is running that's a problem with the system.

To even try suggest that the whole set up of the LOI in particular isn't at fault for a large proportion of the problems clubs in the league face is sheer ignorance.

To borrow your car analogy, it's more like trying to drive with a dodgy accelerator, yes it's possible to do but it's not exactly easy and you'd really rather the problem gets fixed to say the least.

Blaming the "system", like blaming the car is a cop-out.

The problem is quite simple: too many clubs gambling on success by spending money they didn't have.

The IL had this problem a decade or more ago, but in the end they (and the IFA) took ownership of the problem, introduced new rules/procedures and implemented them. As a result, clubs are now largely solvent (if skint!).

[EalingGreen]

Cheap shot aside : are you disagreeing with what they're actually saying ?

I'm disagreeing with the implication of what they're saying, namely that it is somehow inherently and structurally impossible for any LOI club to operate within their means in the present set-up.

Some clubs do so, even if many do not.

P.S. It is hardly "cheap" to point out simple, undeniable facts from the public record.

[EalingGreen]

Ealing Green's comments just read like repeated pot shots at Derry City. Ironic given that after years of being a financial basket case, Glentoran is itself now also benefitting from/reliant upon benefaction.

Where was I factually incorrect about DCFC?

As for Glentoran, like DCFC they engaged in a financial arms race to try to keep up (with Linfield) and "buy" success etc.

But unlike DCFC, they never went bust, they never walked away from unpaid bills and they cleared their debts (partly by selling land which they owned). On the contrary, they did what it took to get the club back on an even keel even when the team on the pitch was suffering and all without receiving any public money to rebuild their stadium, or with European prize money.

So that with the mess having now been cleared up as much by by the club itself as this new investor, there is no valid comparison with the financial mismanagement at the Brandywell.

Of course, with the new regime's plans to take the club to the next level (f-t status), it may turn out that this is just the next arms race - who knows?

But as my dear old mother would have said: "Let me fall before you catch me".

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Blaming the "system", like blaming the car is a cop-out.

The problem is quite simple: too many clubs gambling on success by spending money they didn't have.

The IL had this problem a decade or more ago, but in the end they (and the IFA) took ownership of the problem, introduced new rules/procedures and implemented them. As a result, clubs are now largely solvent (if skint!).

Right we'll take the wheels off your car and it'll be your fault when you can't make it drive anywhere, because that's what you've just said.

That's not what's happening because even the clubs not gambling on success and being as frugal as possible are running at a loss or very near to it.

So if Glentoran came out a decade ago and said something needs to change you would have told them to shut up because it's all their own fault?

When you answer bear in mind I have just quoted you saying yourself that changing the system in place helped improve the clubs solvency.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Where was I factually incorrect about DCFC?

As for Glentoran, like DCFC they engaged in a financial arms race to try to keep up (with Linfield) and "buy" success etc.

But unlike DCFC, they never went bust, they never walked away from unpaid bills and they cleared their debts (partly by selling land which they owned). On the contrary, they did what it took to get the club back on an even keel even when the team on the pitch was suffering and all without receiving any public money to rebuild their stadium, or with European prize money.

So that with the mess having now been cleared up as much by by the club itself as this new investor, there is no valid comparison with the financial mismanagement at the Brandywell.

Of course, with the new regime's plans to take the club to the next level (f-t status), it may turn out that this is just the next arms race - who knows?

But as my dear old mother would have said: "Let me fall before you catch me".

Being factually correctly means absolutely **** all let's be honest, I could hand pick facts about just about anything to suit any narrative I wanted.

You do know that the Brandywell is and alway has been owned by the council? It's a complicated agreement in fairness but the bottom line is that Derry City Council own the land.

[EalingGreen]

Right we'll take the wheels off your car and it'll be your fault when you can't make it drive anywhere, because that's what you've just said.

That's not what's happening because even the clubs not gambling on success and being as frugal as possible are running at a loss or very near to it.

If the problem is the car, then fix it.
If the problem is the driver, then drive more carefully.

And until you do, don't just complain that driving anywhere is impossible, so that someone should give you a new car and a new motorway to drive it on, no further questions asked.

So if Glentoran came out a decade ago and said something needs to change you would have told them to shut up because it's all their own fault?

When you answer bear in mind I have just quoted you saying yourself that changing the system in place helped improve the clubs solvency.

Glentoran accepted they'd screwed up and went back to living within their means in order to clear up their own mess.

Over and above that, they and the other senior clubs, in conjunction with the IFA, worked hard to reform the system to make it work.

They didn't just throw their hands up and blame everyone else.