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Thread: LOI In Europe 2020

  1. #1101
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Its understandable that the 'reserve' players didnt look up to it last Sunday. But I think it exposed issues with training as much too. Match sharpness aside, they looked disjointed and in some cases not up to scratch fitness wise. The fitness issue wouldnt have happened in the past but we were shown up similarly in I think as LSC final or semi-final v St Pats under Stephen Kenny and it was felt even then that the squad wasnt being utilised enough to keep players ready to step up if there was injury.

    A good few in the team, like Dummigan wouldnt weaken a starting 11 and if had been fit may have been in instead of Hoare at right back. Patching can play but needs a lot of work by the looks of him. Weakness with Oduwa has been identified and can be sorted. I've never really been convinced by the quality of our youths.U19s coming through but its a big part of FGs plans and tbh where he could be very good with his background and could even be a part of the reasoning for his appointment by the owners. If he can cut it in the managerial position (Keegan has to be a help there early on) along with developing the youth structures then bonus as its needed. I wouldnt be surprised to see a DoF appointed in the off season depending on league and cup performnces and EL to a lesser extent. Fans are fickle creatures but its hard not to like FG and his relaxed and honest demeanour. But then us Dundalk fans talked up VPs honest, no fluff, take on things.

    Bit early for transfer talk maybe but the old nugget of getting a pacey front man in. Maybe a keeper but Rogers isnt showing his age really. Hope to hold on to the likes of Duffy. A creative type central mid if others are not showing the can do that but Murray is coming in to being able to pick a pass, run from deep, can shoot from distance and has an engine (1st full 90mins last Thursday). If Flores gets some consistancy, full fitness and drops the inflated opinion of himself after one top goal, he is superb at set pieces and can get himself about - just needs to stop drifiting out of games. Leahy shows his inexperience at times but bags of potential, he had a facinating battle against the FI right winger who was physically bigger. Dan Kelly is still somone to bring on against a tired defence but as a young lads is yards ahead of most at his age. Ganno if he stays will find his form again. Sloggett deputised nicely for Shields, occasionally sloppy and especially for the KI goal but tbh Shields can have the odd moment too. Cleary's development has stalled a bit, he was more assured when he had that feisty streak, wreckless in the challange at times. All in all plenty to work with and no need for a clearout.

    Things get stale with little change to a squad or more that the same players of a squad always get a starting nod. This might come back to haunt me but if Dundalk didnt change a single player I still think we'd be closer to Rovers than we have been since the league resumption.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/10/2020 at 3:53 PM.

  2. #1102
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I don't think your maths are correct there. I've taken the squad details off wiki and the average age (excluding the three guys out on loan, and the keeper born in 1820) is 27.8. Take Gartland and Rogers out and it drops to 27.0 (but of course by March, the earliest they'll retire, everyone else will be five months older). There's only two players under 24 (Patching and Leahy), so the average age can't be close to 23?

    So I don't think it's a misnomer to call it an old squad. Rovers' squad is a year younger (26.7), but they have eight players under 24, so I think their age profile is a bit healthier.
    Well I did list players ages from memory so give or take a bit. Still dont think the squad is 'old', maybe its me thats old and have a different perspective on that but a single year between squad average profiles isnt a whole lot (didnt think you'd deduct the elder statesmen as a maths principle ;p ) Rounded down the 80 year old, which gave me a laugh checking the squad a while back, to 27. But even at 27, with other younger players that are cover for a good few positions. I included the 3 lads on loan but guessed at Tanner's age - at 12 or something to enhance my point....not very mathematical or scientific.... (not really)!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/10/2020 at 3:47 PM.

  3. #1103
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    It's not a massive gap, but I suppose the difference is that Rovers have the players coming through, whereas Dundalk don't. It's that recruitment that's going to be an issue for Dundalk in the coming couple of years.

    It's hard to really compare international and club teams (because club teams can sign players), but let's do it anyway to try put the figures in perspective. Ireland's squad at Euro 2016 was the oldest at 29.4 years. To aul fellas like you and me, that sounds quite young, but for a football team it's very old. It was 0.6 years older on average than any other squad for example. It was really obvious at the time that our squad was over the hill, and we can see the effects in the years since.

    Eight of the 24 Euro 2016 squads were older than 27.8 (Dundalk's squad), while only four were younger than 26.7 (Rovers' squad), which gives an indication that maybe Dundalk's and Rovers' squads are at either end of normal. But Dundalk's is at the wrong end of course.

    Again, that's not a massively scientific comparison, but I think it's an interesting indication.

    On elder statesmen - ye both have ancient keepers (less than a year between Mannus and Rogers), so it doesn't change things if they both get discounted

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    Reserves A N Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    It's not a massive gap, but I suppose the difference is that Rovers have the players coming through, whereas Dundalk don't. It's that recruitment that's going to be an issue for Dundalk in the coming couple of years.

    It's hard to really compare international and club teams (because club teams can sign players), but let's do it anyway to try put the figures in perspective. Ireland's squad at Euro 2016 was the oldest at 29.4 years. To aul fellas like you and me, that sounds quite young, but for a football team it's very old. It was 0.6 years older on average than any other squad for example. It was really obvious at the time that our squad was over the hill, and we can see the effects in the years since.

    Eight of the 24 Euro 2016 squads were older than 27.8 (Dundalk's squad), while only four were younger than 26.7 (Rovers' squad), which gives an indication that maybe Dundalk's and Rovers' squads are at either end of normal. But Dundalk's is at the wrong end of course.

    Again, that's not a massively scientific comparison, but I think it's an interesting indication.

    On elder statesmen - ye both have ancient keepers (less than a year between Mannus and Rogers), so it doesn't change things if they both get discounted
    I'm just going to leave this post on the rationale for data visualisations here.

    https://www.autodesk.com/research/pu...fferent-graphs

  5. #1105
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    I do agree that Rovers have more players coming toward their prime from younger than say 25/26 and Dundalk have players in the 26/29 area. So for sure Dundalk will hit the point of needing a transition season earlier. Idealy signings in, sooner than later, and integrated over a period is what will be needed. I just dont think, yet, that this Dundalk squad needs a massive overhaul. Its quite possible that this season we dont get Europe and why Thursday was key as it could bridge that transition period. That said, with the resources available, there shouldnt be a year outside the top 3. Squads always need experience with youth so there is potential in the off season to look toward a more balanced squad - age/position/calibre etc. If we'd lost on Thursday i'd have started to feel that this was the end of Dundalk time in the sun. Now I feel more that the bit will be between the teeth to go again. We had setbacks against Cork but made up for it. Wont be as easy with Rovers as they are a genuinely good side that can play ball and are also tough when they need to be. Tbh the strengths of Dundalk of recent seasons. Its up in the air for Dundalk though - under SK we'd definitely be back at it, its wait and see now with the new coaching team. Rovers stuck with Bradley, in the face of a chunk of fans losing faith in him but he has grown with the team - champs!

  6. #1106
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd agree with most of that alright.

    I don't think ye'll finish outside top 4 this year, but I guess if you look at the signings Dundalk have made this year, how many have really worked out? Sloggett and Leahy seem solid signings (although I never had Sloggett down in the same calibre as Finn or Benson). Colovic has been a regular, so I guess he's doing ok? The other four seem to be struggling (Patching, Smith, Gatt and Oduwa) based off comments here (and foot.ie is never wrong of course). Two new first-teamers a season is probably a solid outcome, although I guess the concern is over the random foreigners. McKee, Flores, Chvedukas, Adorjan, Tagbajumi - has any really made a real impact? (Apart from Flores' goal v Rovers of course!)
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 03/10/2020 at 6:54 PM.

  7. #1107
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    Is Duffy out of contract there at seasons end. His decision one way or the other could be seen as a weather vane for their hope next season.
    He'd be welcome at all other LOI clubs anyway, including Rovers.
    All others ? Who else is going to match the wages he is currently on at DFC? Now he might want to go home to Derry but they will need a huge budget increase to sign him, plus not sure they will make Europe.

    Rovers? They might be able to afford to offer wages, but they have big outlays already on big players, 2-3 in particular, besides he seems settled in Blackrock LH, group stages and a confirm on perm manager would help swing things in our favour, but as always with out of contract players, nothing certain until its signed.

    Just on recent recruits, I think the squad from say 1-15 is quite good, 16-22 not so, so depth is not there, and I would release them as soon as possible, some we are stuck with Patching on a 2 year contract, has offered nothing, Odawu, Gatt, Flores even, he can score great goals, far too injury prone though, again offers little when stuck into deep end, all these players out of their depth as seen last Sunday.

    There is no doubt DFC need to strengthen for 2021, that's obvious, as for group stage 2020, also obv the squad not as strong as 2016 but this is where we are now, so have to embrace it and try and challenge with what we have. Arsenal will run away with the group.

    If we can target points at home to Molde first, then Rapid who knows, but its a big ask, a very big ask, then again the group could have been a lot lot worse.
    Last edited by oriel; 03/10/2020 at 11:51 PM.
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

  8. #1108
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    I really am going to sound like one of Waldorf and Statler but I think we will do well to pick up a point or 2 in this groups campaign. But again in context of the season we have already achieved the unexpected regardless of some luck along the way with the draw and covid helping Ki geeting to the playoff. That there werent 2 legs probably helped us also as it was a cup final seige mentality each time. Counted against us v Celje though as we probably would have kept it tight to have a pop in the 2nd leg.

    Just on the whole average age of any squad, taking SRFC as an example, they are a season or 2 from being in the exact same situations as Dundalk currently. A championship team that will need to recruit younger lads not to be classed as an old side with Mannus, Finn, Greene, O'Brien, Lafferty and Bolger north of 30. Disregarding (the important) calibre of player recruitment, its quite possible that Dundalk could be rejuvinating the squad, somthing that Rovers will also have to do a season or 2 later. No intending to disregard any other club by the way, just in the context of the young/old profile of the squads in question. Bohs probably have the young up and coming squad that is also competative and with the 14th top budget too Also debating such a topic with a fan of a college team has its slamdunk (if UCD are promoted). Its possible that i'd be a bit touchy on the general premise what is an 'old squad' from seeing Dundalk signing really top class LoI players over the years....when they were pushing 40 odd...

  9. #1109
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I really am going to sound like one of Waldorf and Statler but I think we will do well to pick up a point or 2 in this groups campaign.

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  11. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by A N Mouse View Post
    That's the starting position for 22/23 season. i.e. before a ball is kicked in 21/22. So the big drop is the 2.6 from 16/17.

    Conceivably a few results from dundalk could see us back in the thirties, before that ball is kicked next year.
    Yea so going on this years seedings dundalk would have been seeded for 3Qualifier rounds and unseeded in the 4th. So they should keep things ticking over... Rovers however might well not be seeded in the first round next year but hopefully they can add a few points as well to make up for the 2.6 loss...

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Ah here even myself, Waldorf, and Statler combined arent that miserable!! I do like Ollie though...likable misery!

    Never got the McKee signing, Tagbajumi was just a waster, Chevdukas just didnt seem right in the head in the end, did he do anything at Waterford? Pity as he had ability but ye got the feeling he was happy about being sent off and suspended. Most telling comment there from Stephen Kenny was 'he thinks he is injured and needs an operation' the physios and surgeon seemed to differ from the player - Stuart Connolly stuff from years ago with his sore toe. Flores Ive mentioned, would have thought he'd have appreciated the chance and support he got at the club, maybe unfair but the way he was abandoned by Wigan may have some context now. Still could have an important role to play if he focuses on football first to earn a contract even on better terms after. Adorjan was quality, club wanted him to stay he wanted to stay but his club started looking for silly transfer money, moved then for damn all I think and picked up a bad injury. Cant blame the player or DFC on that one much - maybe some better background work on his agent and contract situation, but the night the league trophy was presented the players had an Adorjan shirt on display during the celebrations so he was rated. Had the impact that the likes of Chevdukas could have had but recalled from his loan back to the parent club against his wishes. He worked hard to get up to the helter skelter pace of LoI so was a shame he didnt get to stay.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 04/10/2020 at 6:33 AM.

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    Reserves trevy's Avatar
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    Chevdukas didn't do a lot at Waterford. He was in and out of team and a bit injury prone and was let go before end of last season not long after Alan Reynolds criticised him publicly after he got sent off v Shamrock Rovers.
    Will 4th place in the league still get a Europa league place next season if one of the top 3 win the FAI Cup?
    I reckon Dundalk will finish 3rd with their games in hand and any of 4 teams battle it out for 4th.

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    Seasoned Pro Nah Nah Nah Nah's Avatar
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    Yeah fourth will get Europe if one of top 3 win the cup

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    International Prospect sbgawa's Avatar
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    Derry city in 2012 were the only team in the past decade to win the cup from outside the top 3 .
    It's as close to a sure thing as u can get.

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Oh no, potentially hoping for a Rovers league and cup double if we were in 4th wouldnt sit too well...

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    International Prospect sbgawa's Avatar
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    You could come and sit in with the ultras and cheer us on

  18. #1117
    First Team The Lilywhites's Avatar
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    Don't think there's any chance of us finishing outside the top 3. The other teams are rubbish.

    Could still get 2nd.

  19. #1118
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky12345678 View Post
    Yea so going on this years seedings dundalk would have been seeded for 3Qualifier rounds and unseeded in the 4th. So they should keep things ticking over... Rovers however might well not be seeded in the first round next year but hopefully they can add a few points as well to make up for the 2.6 loss...
    I had a look at this last week, and based on the cut that was required in the CL this year, Rovers will probably be unseeded in 2021. Plus if they lose that first game, (as DFC did), their lower coefficient would mean they will drop out of the champions route for the next stage, being Uefa Conference R2 or so.

    Just shows how important club coefficient is, for seeding and what route you take after, both helped us this year.
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

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    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lilywhites View Post
    Don't think there's any chance of us finishing outside the top 3. The other teams are rubbish.

    Could still get 2nd.
    I was thinking of this over the weekend, we have hardly made any strides in the last 4 weeks league wise, yet we can jump from 5th to 3rd tonight, if we beat FH, and still have games in hand on others.

    Sligo + Waterford are two who have not taken the opportunity to chase down 3rd spot, Derry look like they have left it late, maybe Pats are best placed to challenge, but still there is that 4th spot if one outside top 3 wins the cup.
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    You could come and sit in with the ultras and cheer us on
    Id have to borrow that jersey if i wanted to keep my head

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