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Thread: LOI In Europe 2020

  1. #1081
    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    We were 29th in 2010 - there's a 10-year graph here.

    We're actually still on course to drop to 46th in 2022, probably not helped by there being only half the number of games this year (the "second legs" were all scored as draws)
    Some pretty mad climbs and falls in some of those rankings, Scotland being one which may be to do with Rangers getting back in to the domestic top 2. Ajerbaijan and Hungary have serious fluctuations too. Maybe a couple more but the graph is a bit crowded. Be interesting to see what the causes were - investment, teams going bang, or a series of lucky draws. NI climb is good but can be put down to the additional preliminary rounds and some good results,

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placid casual View Post
    ... And then they see the ground, hear about owner interference, see the age profile of the main players... And then say eh, no thanks.

    And you end up getting a boez player or 2, some yank from MSL division 4(if it exists) no one's ever heard of and a young fellah from drogs..
    Or they could use their involvment in Roma, St Etienne, former contacts at Bournemouth and maybe Swansea, and look to strengthen with loan deals or fringe squad players. Garts and Rogers inflate the average age, McMillan too, but the majority of the rest have a few years yet being in the 28ish bracket. Young squad in 2016, experienced squad 2020 but not past it. Injury prone signings, some of which are starting to get the breaks. The fall in performances seemed to be coaching led. Whther this coach has what it takes against really top opposition we dont know yet but one ting for sure is that the players like what they see and thats considering upping training to double sessions and binning the Wednesday free day too.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 03/10/2020 at 9:25 AM.

  3. #1083
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Or they could use their involvment in Roma, St Etienne, former contacts at Bournemouth and maybe Swansea, and look to strengthen with loan deals or fringe squad players.
    They could - but they don't seem to have done that in the past couple of years have they? Recruitment seems to have been very poor since 2016. What's going to change now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Garts and Rogers inflate the average age, McMillan too
    Serious maths error there Nesta! You can't take out the oldest players because they inflate the average. They're an intrinsic part of the average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Or they could use their involvment in Roma, St Etienne, former contacts at Bournemouth and maybe Swansea, and look to strengthen with loan deals or fringe squad players. Garts and Rogers inflate the average age, McMillan too, but the majority of the rest have a few years yet being in the 28ish bracket. Young squad in 2016, experienced squad 2020 but not past it. Injury prone signings, some of which are starting to get the breaks. The fall in performances seemed to be coaching led. Whther this coach has what it takes against really top opposition we dont know yet but one ting for sure is that the players like what they see and thats considering upping training to double sessions and binning the Wednesday free day too.
    They sold their shares in Rome a few months ago and I dont think the St Etienne deal happened in the end.

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    Coach John83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Serious maths error there Nesta! You can't take out the oldest players because they inflate the average. They're an intrinsic part of the average.
    He's arguing that the median age is more relevant than the mean.
    Vaccinated.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Let's see how that works in two years when Rogers has retired and recruitment has again let them down. "Ah well if you ignore our goalkeeper, we've got an excellent team"

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    They could - but they don't seem to have done that in the past couple of years have they? Recruitment seems to have been very poor since 2016. What's going to change now?


    Serious maths error there Nesta! You can't take out the oldest players because they inflate the average. They're an intrinsic part of the average.
    I wasnt taking them out though so not recalculating the average age, but it does inflate the average age profile of the squad no?

    Some out of left field (non American) potential signings were identified by the Bournmouth scouting network. It certainly was in the plans to utilise other club assets to also scout for players with a suitable profile for Dundalk. Adorjan was from Italian circles. But there seems to have been issues between club and former manager on player recruitment, it may not have been all to do with American players. Coaching staff did travel to watch players that were flagged up, whether they were ones signed I dont know. Imo there is too much player agent involvement, most likely pushing thier own clients on the owners/chairman even if they are not an improvement on whats there already. Before Peak6 we did sign lads whose careers had gone off the rails to try and get them going again. Towell, Maguire the higher profile ones, Clifford, McDermot, Kinsella the disappointments alhough there may have been personal issues with Clifford.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Why didn't you talk about the youngest players as well so - after all, they deflate the average ago, no?

    Seriously, you can't talk about the average age while cherry picking a few people to take out. It's like talking about the Romans while ignoring the aqueduct, the roads and public 'ealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Why didn't you talk about the youngest players as well so - after all, they deflate the average ago, no?

    Seriously, you can't talk about the average age while cherry picking a few people to take out. It's like talking about the Romans while ignoring the aqueduct, the roads and public 'ealth.
    Let it go, PS. It's not irrelevant to say that the squad can be rejuvenated with a 2-3 good signings any more than it is to point out that there's reason to be wary that those signings may not come. Outliers are relevant in discussions of statistics too.
    Vaccinated.

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  11. #1090
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I disagree (and I'm surprised with you backing it up tbh)

    It is an ageing squad and that presents a number of problems - for example potentially having to find and bed in those new players at the same time, which could easily lead to a transition season Dundalk can't really afford.

    I think it's a relevant point to discuss rather than avoid with bad maths.

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    Seasoned Pro sbgawa's Avatar
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    Whatever about ages the quality in the squad beyond the first 11 is poor and I would have always thought that was the key advantage dfc had for a couple of years lately. Big squad overhaul needed and integrating players isn't easy. The players on 52 week contracts that the club are running the clock down on will not be happy bunnies as new contracts are handed out to those staying on. In those circumstances some marginal calls get made to give extensions to keep the dressing room happy. But overall it's still a nice problem to have given the alternative was lose to Ki and lose 2m + this year.

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    Is Duffy out of contract there at seasons end. His decision one way or the other could be seen as a weather vane for their hope next season.
    He'd be welcome at all other LOI clubs anyway, including Rovers.

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    Seasoned Pro holidaysong's Avatar
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    Yes his contract is up this year. I agree to some extent but he might just fancy moving on either way or trying his luck in England. So it might not necessarily indicate a lack of ambition on the side of the owners. Having said that I think it's crucial to resign him. When he resigned 2 years ago it was right at the end of the season if I remember correctly so I assume he was continuing to keep his options open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    They could - but they don't seem to have done that in the past couple of years have they? Recruitment seems to have been very poor since 2016. What's going to change now?
    Another take... Duffy and Hoare both signed after 2016 (fantastic players). Murray scored twice in Europe, along with Cleary, again signed after 2016. Leahy and Sloggett can be easily key players next year. Dundalks recruitmeng hasn't been fantastic , but we still won two leagues since, and we have definitely brought in talent since 2016.

    For comparison to Dundalk, look at Corks recruitment, and you will see poor.

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    International Prospect Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Whatever about ages the quality in the squad beyond the first 11 is poor and I would have always thought that was the key advantage dfc had for a couple of years lately. Big squad overhaul needed and integrating players isn't easy. The players on 52 week contracts that the club are running the clock down on will not be happy bunnies as new contracts are handed out to those staying on. In those circumstances some marginal calls get made to give extensions to keep the dressing room happy. But overall it's still a nice problem to have given the alternative was lose to Ki and lose 2m + this year.
    I'd be interested to hear who you view in the first 11 so I can understand all the players you think are poor quality - it should be an interesting 13-15 person list!

    There is little doubt that there have been deficits in recruitment over that last few years that will result in missing out on a 3-in -row-title wins this year. My view is that this is most obvious is the no 8 and no 10 positions and that 3-5 of the right signings could deal with the overall team / squad issues.

    It is not important that players who are being released are kept happy. I certainly don't envisage players who are considered surplus / not good enough being selected to play against Molde or Arsenal for example unless injuries or suspensions require it.

    Giving unwanted players new contracts is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have heard - you are surpassing yourself

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    International Prospect Nesta99's Avatar
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    That would exactly be the case with Duffy, it would be an indication of where things could go. I wouldnt be at all surprised that he would wants to move and try his hand at the UK though regardless of the clubs desire to do all hey can o keep him.

    You are right Stu I could equally have referred to younger players bringing down an age profile, the difference of course is that there is greater focus on an aging squad. A squad that really there are the majority of player hitting the so called footballers prime, or younger, than there are that are soon likely due to move on. I'm not saying that players are up to scratch just that its a bit of a myth that this Dundalk squad is ageing beyond their prime. Average is 25, if Garts and Rogers were to retire it would be 23 and our 80 year old listed in the squad raises it to 27. I say this having shown that math isnt a strong point so Im open to being humiliated and corrected. But you get the point I am making Stu regardless if I am violating some mathematical principles by removing 2 of our older players that may very well not be in the squad by next season. McMillan and Massey could also be added. Of course they could all stay but its still a misnomer to say the squad is old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    I'd be interested to hear who you view in the first 11 so I can understand all the players you think are poor quality - it should be an interesting 13-15 person list!

    There is little doubt that there have been deficits in recruitment over that last few years that will result in missing out on a 3-in -row-title wins this year. My view is that this is most obvious is the no 8 and no 10 positions and that 3-5 of the right signings could deal with the overall team / squad issues.

    It is not important that players who are being released are kept happy. I certainly don't envisage players who are considered surplus / not good enough being selected to play against Molde or Arsenal for example unless injuries or suspensions require it.

    Giving unwanted players new contracts is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have heard - you are surpassing yourself
    I didn't mean unwanted players EZ I meant marginal call players may be kept as the manager is bound to want to have as many happy players as possible in the dressing room..
    Regards the strength in depth of the team the only players on the pitch against rovers I would say are positive to the dfc squad are shields, Colovic and maybe oduwa if he could be persuaded to track back. I'm probably forgetting someone obvious as I haven't gone looking for the tea.sheet but that was my take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    We were 29th in 2010 - there's a 10-year graph here.

    We're actually still on course to drop to 46th in 2022, probably not helped by there being only half the number of games this year (the "second legs" were all scored as draws)
    That's the starting position for 22/23 season. i.e. before a ball is kicked in 21/22. So the big drop is the 2.6 from 16/17.

    Conceivably a few results from dundalk could see us back in the thirties, before that ball is kicked next year.

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  21. #1099
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa View Post
    Another take... Duffy and Hoare both signed after 2016 (fantastic players). Murray scored twice in Europe, along with Cleary, again signed after 2016. Leahy and Sloggett can be easily key players next year. Dundalks recruitmeng hasn't been fantastic , but we still won two leagues since, and we have definitely brought in talent since 2016.

    For comparison to Dundalk, look at Corks recruitment, and you will see poor.
    I'm not saying all Dundalk's recruitment has been poor. Yes, Cork's has been worse for sure, and Dundalk have signed some decent players in the past four years. But on balance it's been poor, as you acknowledge in the post. I think there's been more misses than hits, for example.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I'm not saying that players are up to scratch just that its a bit of a myth that this Dundalk squad is ageing beyond their prime. Average is 25, if Garts and Rogers were to retire it would be 23 and our 80 year old listed in the squad raises it to 27. Of course they could all stay but its still a misnomer to say the squad is old.
    I don't think your maths are correct there. I've taken the squad details off wiki and the average age (excluding the three guys out on loan, and the keeper born in 1820) is 27.8. Take Gartland and Rogers out and it drops to 27.0 (but of course by March, the earliest they'll retire, everyone else will be five months older). There's only two players under 24 (Patching and Leahy), so the average age can't be close to 23?

    So I don't think it's a misnomer to call it an old squad. Rovers' squad is a year younger (26.7), but they have eight players under 24, so I think their age profile is a bit healthier.

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