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Thread: Kits 2020

  1. #101
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnie View Post
    When are the fixtures being realeased? does anyone know if the FAI shítstorm will affect them being released on time?
    December 18th is the provisional date, according to one of the Bohs directors posts on our mb.

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  3. #102
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    Wouldn't be surprised if they only release the PD fixtures first, given that there's probably question marks regarding some FD teams. Will there be a team from Limerick? Will Cabo stay? What's the story with Shamrock Rovers B coming in, is that happening?

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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    saw piece in one of papers that seasons due to start around valentines day. Also loi reckon controversy with JD and co wont amend their reg fees one bit!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  5. #104
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    At workshop earlier this year they said plan was premier to start on 14th Feb and 1st to start a week later

  6. #105
    Banned marinobohs's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Nesta99;2025683]
    Quote Originally Posted by marinobohs View Post

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICkcYU6Ut7U and there are plenty more examples including features from the US and Canada. My missus was Canadian and Monday Night Hockey did a piece on it - MNH is a slightly popular in Canada!
    Danny Mandroui goal against shams got on ESPN "play of the day". ESPN is slightly MORE popular than MNH (Canada) does that make it better marketing ?

    Could point out the vast publicity THAT jersey got but as others have said, let's all move on.

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    Banned marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidewayspasser View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if they only release the PD fixtures first, given that there's probably question marks regarding some FD teams. Will there be a team from Limerick? Will Cabo stay? What's the story with Shamrock Rovers B coming in, is that happening?
    Rumours seem to be, shams B in Cabo out, Limerick - who ?
    Just as well those managing the League have nothing to distract them 😁

  8. #107
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Its close season, any auld muck chat is just whittling away the days until Febuary. (Dunno why i said the missus 'was' Canadian - still is and i'd be disowned saying otherwise!!).

    We might get our first '*' before the season starts if fixtures are published without clubs confirmed participation. Its hard to see a whole lot of sorting such issues out just at the moment...

  9. #108
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    Cabo were running underage trials at the weekend for loi so I don't think they are dropping out

  10. #109
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    That would make more sense, be interesting to see the 'return' for such advertising worth!?
    Yeah, I've worked in PR and this stuff is a bit of nonsense. It's predicated on the idea that if you'd get so many eyes on your product or whatever, you'd have to spend a certain amount. Bohs certainly got a huge amount of publicity but most of it's not targeted at people who will buy jerseys or tickets or whatever. But I'm absolutely sure it did have a positive impact for the club but figures like that are for marketing agencies and don't have am easily translatable real-world value.

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  12. #110
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    Do those figures take into account the widespread negative PR that resulted from having to withdraw the jersey? To most casual observers it looked like an embarrassing debacle regardless of where the fault actually lay.

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    Were you inhouse or consultancy, Charlie? Did you have to use AVEs? There should be a support group for anyone still suffering the indignities!

    They’re a useless metric.


    • First, they’re based on the advertising rate card of the media outlet – let’s say the Irish Times, which is about €70 per column centimetre - and nothing at all to do with public opinion on an issue or person or Bohs.
    • Emmet Malone writes a piece measuring 10 centimetres over two columns about how regional clubs are preparing for the new season and includes a throwaway last paragraph: ‘Meanwhile Bohs will hope that refunds on the Bob Marley jersey do not leave them red-faced and in the red.’
    • The cost of buying that total space for an ad would be 20cc x €70 = €1,400. But this isn’t an ad: it’s a news story with a mildly negative comment on Bohs who get one cc of coverage. A bad/lazy PR firm counts the entire space and multiplies by a factor of three (since every copy of the Irish Times is read by three people - don’t ask, and don’t get me started!) giving Bohs a return of €4,200 from a press release several weeks old for a mention that damages their credibility and reputation.


    Total BS.

    It’s a measurement that is as reliable as: if I have three apples in one hand and four in the other, what do I have? An orchard. The good PR firms (the multinationals) are beginning to look at AI and machine learning to accurately measure return. Still a good five years off being the norm even for them, though.
    Last edited by Eminence Grise; 11/12/2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  15. #112
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    Couldn't agree more with this,
    Utter claptrap from the PJ Mara school of PR, spin central in terms of how Ad Agencies justify spending clients money

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  17. #113
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Were you inhouse or consultancy, Charlie? Did you have to use AVEs? There should be a support group for anyone still suffering the indignities!

    They’re a useless metric.


    • First, they’re based on the advertising rate card of the media outlet – let’s say the Irish Times, which is about €70 per column centimetre - and nothing at all to do with public opinion on an issue or person or Bohs.
    • Emmet Malone writes a piece measuring 10 centimetres over two columns about how regional clubs are preparing for the new season and includes a throwaway last paragraph: ‘Meanwhile Bohs will hope that refunds on the Bob Marley jersey do not leave them red-faced and in the red.’
    • The cost of buying that total space for an ad would be 20cc x €70 = €1,400. But this isn’t an ad: it’s a news story with a mildly negative comment on Bohs who get one cc of coverage. A bad/lazy PR firm counts the entire space and multiplies by a factor of three (since every copy of the Irish Times is read by three people - don’t ask, and don’t get me started!) giving Bohs a return of €4,200 from a press release several weeks old for a mention that damages their credibility and reputation.


    Total BS.

    It’s a measurement that is as reliable as: if I have three apples in one hand and four in the other, what do I have? An orchard. The good PR firms (the multinationals) are beginning to look at AI and machine learning to accurately measure return. Still a good five years off being the norm even for them, though.
    Consultancy. Out of it now, thankfully, but still do the odd bit. I didn't calculate AVE but we were given the supposed figures.

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  19. #114
    Banned marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Couldn't agree more with this,
    Utter claptrap from the PJ Mara school of PR, spin central in terms of how Ad Agencies justify spending clients money
    Yes, it certainly doesn't compare with the bitter jealousy of a rival club supporter 🙄

    Don't really "get" the metrics and would be wary of their accuracy but they are a basis of a multi million Euro/ Dollar industry so they must hsve some valudity.

  20. #115
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Were you inhouse or consultancy, Charlie? Did you have to use AVEs? There should be a support group for anyone still suffering the indignities!

    They’re a useless metric.


    • First, they’re based on the advertising rate card of the media outlet – let’s say the Irish Times, which is about €70 per column centimetre - and nothing at all to do with public opinion on an issue or person or Bohs.
    • Emmet Malone writes a piece measuring 10 centimetres over two columns about how regional clubs are preparing for the new season and includes a throwaway last paragraph: ‘Meanwhile Bohs will hope that refunds on the Bob Marley jersey do not leave them red-faced and in the red.’
    • The cost of buying that total space for an ad would be 20cc x €70 = €1,400. But this isn’t an ad: it’s a news story with a mildly negative comment on Bohs who get one cc of coverage. A bad/lazy PR firm counts the entire space and multiplies by a factor of three (since every copy of the Irish Times is read by three people - don’t ask, and don’t get me started!) giving Bohs a return of €4,200 from a press release several weeks old for a mention that damages their credibility and reputation.


    Total BS.

    It’s a measurement that is as reliable as: if I have three apples in one hand and four in the other, what do I have? An orchard. The good PR firms (the multinationals) are beginning to look at AI and machine learning to accurately measure return. Still a good five years off being the norm even for them, though.
    From my limited understanding of marketing, i thought it was about the numbers of impressions/hits/reads/shares etc and scale of reach these days (all very easy to quantify) and the relative cost that you would pay for a modern promotional campaign that reaches X number of people? I dont think they were counting print media space to be fair.

    I am not a huge fan of this type of message ("equivalent to a e3.6m marketing campaign") put on it and, even with social media, it is definitely far from an exact science but when you confirm that it impacted jersey sales/income in a markedly significant way - which it did - then you can reasonable conclude that it was definitely a net positive for us in terms of marketing reach and the bottom line.

  21. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinobohs View Post
    they are a basis of a multi million Euro/ Dollar industry so they must hsve some valudity.
    If they're AVEs, no: they don't. They're utterly discredited. Any PR firm still using is them a dinosaur.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    From my limited understanding of marketing, i thought it was about the numbers of impressions/hits/reads/shares etc and scale of reach these days (all very easy to quantify) and the relative cost that you would pay for a modern promotional campaign that reaches X number of people? I dont think they were counting print media space to be fair.

    I am not a huge fan of this type of message ("equivalent to a e3.6m marketing campaign") put on it and, even with social media, it is definitely far from an exact science but when you confirm that it impacted jersey sales/income in a markedly significant way - which it did - then you can reasonable conclude that it was definitely a net positive for us in terms of marketing reach and the bottom line.
    All true, providing that what is being measured is a marketing spend. Bohs could not have gotten a return of 3.6m unless their marketing budget was a significant six figure sum to begin with. The AVE outline I gave shows how quickly a false metric can be hyped to nonsensical levels by a discredited measurement technique that is still too commonly trotted out.

    The ultimate arbiter of success for any campaign (marketing, PR, advertising) is not how many people see the campaign, but how many are motivated by the call to action - buy the jersey - so that the income generated exceeds the cost of the campaign by at least the desired amount. I would guess that this was the case for Bohs, who I don't imagine have a massive budget, but who generated a lot of traditional and digital news coverage that gave them enough bang for their buck to flog more product and exceed their expectations. And fair bloody play to them for doing that. I’m not having a go at Bohs, I’m having a go at imprecise measurement metrics… because I’m a nerd with a PR background.
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  22. #117
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    From my limited understanding of marketing, i thought it was about the numbers of impressions/hits/reads/shares etc and scale of reach these days (all very easy to quantify) and the relative cost that you would pay for a modern promotional campaign that reaches X number of people? I dont think they were counting print media space to be fair.

    I am not a huge fan of this type of message ("equivalent to a e3.6m marketing campaign") put on it and, even with social media, it is definitely far from an exact science but when you confirm that it impacted jersey sales/income in a markedly significant way - which it did - then you can reasonable conclude that it was definitely a net positive for us in terms of marketing reach and the bottom line.
    Coincidently yesterday this sort of thing arose when evaluating a Social Entrepreneurship project. What is real in terms of measuring engagement with something via any medium? EG somebody clicks on a link to a video ad or info site but they could go 'nah' and close the link hence no engagement but yet this will register as a positive feedback point. Or the mentioned example of newspaper articles - how do put a figure on the number that bothered to read the article. It's an enormous subject area on how to genuinely obtain feedback for full engagement on or with a project or its 'marketing' etc. Especially in an era of click farms!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 11/12/2019 at 2:33 PM.

  23. #118
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    I agree but I do know there is (relatively) easily obtainable data for things like length of impression and bounce rate/time etc that can be included/excluded in the analysis? I do believe that large marketing departments can get quite sophisticated with this type of analysis and put a fairly reasonable value on effort. Which is why i dont like the "back of the beer mat" calculation of e3.4m... suffice to say, from my perspective anyway, is that the effort by Bohs made a significant impression globally - enough to set records on our jersey sales which, despite the set back, made a significant difference to our actual jersey revenues.

    Despite the mild criticism I have above of the evaluation, i think that Bohs marketing efforts are something for the club and the league to be proud of in terms of investment v reward - - the jersey release, Copa90 hit a global scale with close to zero outlay and the stuff we are doing in the community to be visible and viable are very impressive. Given that the resources behind it are tiny, something is definitely working.

  24. #119
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    If they're AVEs, no: they don't. They're utterly discredited. Any PR firm still using is them a dinosaur.
    Well. They're obviously nonsense but PR firms don't believe them either. They're purely for convincing the client, who usually doesn't know better, that they're getting great value. PR is a shady business but I wouldn't for a second think any PR firm takes them seriously.

  25. #120
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    I agree but I do know there is (relatively) easily obtainable data for things like length of impression and bounce rate/time etc that can be included/excluded in the analysis? I do believe that large marketing departments can get quite sophisticated with this type of analysis and put a fairly reasonable value on effort. Which is why i dont like the "back of the beer mat" calculation of e3.4m... suffice to say, from my perspective anyway, is that the effort by Bohs made a significant impression globally - enough to set records on our jersey sales which, despite the set back, made a significant difference to our actual jersey revenues.

    Despite the mild criticism I have above of the evaluation, i think that Bohs marketing efforts are something for the club and the league to be proud of in terms of investment v reward - - the jersey release, Copa90 hit a global scale with close to zero outlay and the stuff we are doing in the community to be visible and viable are very impressive. Given that the resources behind it are tiny, something is definitely working.
    I should just say I think Bohs' marketing has been brilliant the last couple of years. Any criticism I have of the EAVs and that is purely from my own cynicism towards and doesn't detract from the fact they club did brilliantly to get their name out there.

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