Horses for courses :-)
Agree with you Stuttgart, Byrne was the option on the bench - use him. I think I'd have gone Byrne for Hourihane, and gambled on Brady for McClean.
Last edited by ifk101; 19/11/2019 at 3:03 PM.
He improved in the second half. Not so good in the first. One thing sticks in my mind though. We had a corner early in the second, played short and back to Hourihane who swung it in with it bouncing up off their goalie's hand. That subsequent ball was there for Hendrick to attack and win but he chose to back away from it for some reason allowing Denmark to clear their lines.Originally Posted by brine3
We might have been able to throw Byrne in if we had a full range of 3 subs late on. Clark for Egan may have scuppered those plans. Robinson was a logical first sub and a little surprised that Maguire got the call then. (It was a good week for him - he has moved up the pecking order a bit ), he got himself into space once or twice and did ok in the short time. Would like to see him take the game to the opposition more in an Ireland shirt - run at players etc.
I don't buy the Byrne plays LOI argument. Roger Milla scored 4 goals in a World Cup finals while playing his club football on Reunion Island - at 38. Extreme example I know but Byrne has clearly proved he can operate at a higher level than LOI anyway and I'm not altogether sure we had better off the bench either.
Midfield is where the problem lies
Hendrick would be fine in a better balanced/functioning Midfield , so i would include him going forward
Out
Whelan (will retire not based on last nights performance)
Hourihane - not good enough (squad player)
Browne - not good enough (squad player)
McClean - past his sell by date
In
Molumby - needs to be fast tracked / all round power house
Cullen - neat and tidy playing at a good level / technically very good
McCarthy - if he gets himself fit he walks back into to the holding role
Byrne - creativity , need to see more of him playing at a higher level
Crowley - creativity / technically very good , need to sort out his papers smokescreen nonsense
Arter - better than last night's crew
Options to replace McClean
Connolly
O'dowda
Brady
I don’tthink the immediate future would be all that bad if we didn’t have big Mickpicking the team
I actually never knew that about Milla!
Though he was an experienced international anyway. Byrne isn't.
Like, I get the argument about McClean, and I'd like to see Byrne get more game time. But I still think it's too optimistic a leap to say that Byrne would have dramatically improved things tbh.
Yeah Crowley been starting all his matches for B'ham City since his transfer there. Yet not in the squad. Doesn't seem right.
While Glenn Whelan hasn't been too bad since he came back, I think it is wrong of us to keep picking players like him. He's the safe option. But we always go for the safe and mediocre option. We're always just trying to wing it just enough to get to qualify for the next tournament, instead of developing our best team. It's disheartening and it's difficult to watch. I'm not as fully invested in it as I used to be. And that's coming from somebody who watched every Ireland qualifying match religiously for going on 30 years. If we're going to be finishing third in a group then lets do it by at least trying to play some ball. 7 goals from 8 matches, which includes Gibraltar and Georgia home and away. That's just not good enough. People can complain that we don't have a proper striker. Neither do Denmark and Switzerland.
Last edited by brine3; 19/11/2019 at 4:43 PM.
What sticks in my mind is the number of times he got the ball in a tight space surrounded by Danish players but managed to wiggle his way out and get the ball to another green shirt. Irish players who can do that are like gold dust.
Agree completely with this brine3. The FAI - and to the same extent the fans - have put the pressure of success (qualification) ahead of all else since on the shoulders of every manager since the end of McCarthy's original tenure. That has resulted in a lot of players being retained at the expense of high potential (sometimes correctly, in fairness) and often times keeping those players far beyond their best before date. It creates a bottleneck for our talent to try and force their way through instead of a smoother pathway where they are brought through and the subsequent talent gets promoted through each age group. In Mick's defense, the last couple of squads are evidence of doing that well.
When Kenny comes on board, i do hope and pray that we see the next campaign (maybe two) as developmental and about bringing our excellent young talent through and building a winning team that plays the game the right way. The FAI supporting that approach and being vocal about it will be important. Otherwise, managers will always default to the safe, "tried and trusted" options. Of all, I think Kenny has the cojones to "just do it anyway" but he will need our backing and patience as will the players.
I dont think we will get through these playoffs and as a result i would love to see the rebuilding start in March but I know that not many will see it the same way and so it likely wont be until next Autumn.
I agree with most of this (I rate Browne and for me the jury is still out on Hourihane).
The second biggest mistake the Mick has repeated is around his use of McGoldrick. He's a good quality talent but he is not at his best - and it impacts the effectiveness of the team hugely - when he is selected at 9. This was evident again last night. He'd be super in a #10 role. The problem if i was picking is that i also like Hendrick at #10 so, while i rate him as highly as you appear to, it would probably be a game by game decision on him v McG.
His biggest mistake is not having found an exit strategy for McClean. Does more harm than good. I think one of Stutts' recent posts nails it.
Is this whats called a scarecrow argument? Moaning for the sake of moaning without just cause.
If you had been following the fortunes of the Irish team like most people here you might have brine in the know that Crowley's request to tranfer to Ireland has not yet been requited by FIFA.
Glenn Whelan played well above what most expected of him at this time in his his life, most fans appreciated his 100% efforts and upmost dedication in that game v Denmark.
Apart from that, most fans and pundits expected Ireland to get beaten by Denmark, even well beaten, but we didn't and we even came closer than most people expected to by winning against the Danes. Now we even have our pecker up going into the play offs.. Did you expect Ireland to beat Denmark? I didn't, but I thought it might happen and am proud in a way that the team went all out to claim the victory. What is all this grief about not being able to beat Denmark when you probably thought Ireland would get pumped?
Last edited by geysir; 20/11/2019 at 2:35 AM.
Well said.
The negativity from some fans (not necessarily on here as in general) is shocking. McClean is a real hate figure but I watched the match back and he played quite well.
None of our lads had a stinker the other night and I’m proud of the team.
They have a bit of momentum now and my biggest worry is that the Slovakia game is so far away. Would love a friendly or two in between.
My other big fear is that McGoldrick will get injured as he would be a huge loss
Whelan was brilliant. He burst a gut in midfield and covered more ground than I could have expected. Hourihane was anonymous in comparison and it forced Whelan into persistently shouting at those around to close down the Danes. It was great to hear "Whelo, Whelo" chants break out a few times too.
Did anyone notice how we had sent two big lads up for a set piece in the first half which ended up in Schmichael’s hands? He launched a big kick upfield and it was Whelan, our last man on halfway, who stretched to head clear what was very nearly a 2-on-1 otherwise. Obviously it’d have been a terrible chance to concede and you could argue that he was only doing the basics by covering for his CBs but still, I thought it was symbolic of his overall performance. Great to hear his name being sung. The yellow looked harsh. It looked like he clearly won the ball but it was recovering from a loose touch I suppose, and that’s always a card waiting to happen.
I seen a claim on twitter yesterday that Luxembourg performed better than us in qualifying - they finished on 4 points and lost 8 games.
He did that when he was pushed further up the pitch when in tighter areas, which is the strange thing. His distribution is clearly poor, but would be helped by better ball playing players around him
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
He completed 83% of his passes - https://www.sofascore.com/ireland-denmark/BObsTTb
Wheelman ( funnily enough if he had better wheels through out his career he would have been a few levels up ) has a Great Attitude . He could easily be retired from International Football . A lot of people seem to think we have better , but do we ?
I agree in general with the sentiments about how well we played. Finally watched the game uninterrupted last night (watching from work is a killer!). But i do disagree about McClean. He was to type - running poor channels, dreadful final ball/crosses (one good one in every five) and giving the ball away very cheaply in general play. There is also the antagonistic side to his game where he gives the ball away and then freaks out at his teammates which he did 2 or 3 times on Monday when clearly he had over or underhit a pass. And there was the stupid side to his game where going into injury time the ball is breaking near the Danes box and breaking to an irish player but McClean decides to push over a Dane who wouldnt have gotten there first. Infuriating. Would be frustrating to play with. On the other side, and this is why a lot of fans like him, there was the 60 yard sprint in added time to win the ball in a spot where you have to think Denmark would have scored. It was quite something in fairness.
I thought Hourihane was terrible again, anonymous. But i do not think that defensive midfield is his position. I would have had Browne in beside Whelan and maybe brought Hourihane on in a more attacking midfield role later on if we were chasing the game. Browne was a bit of a square peg in a round hole but overall did ok. I do like the way he plays. Didnt rate Hendrick as highly as some on here.
I thought Clark was fantastic when he came on. I just love the way he plays - no fuss, low key defending and a threat in the oppositions box. I am a huge Duffy critic (in terms of his hoof ball) and didnt think he could play a possession game but, i am going to eat a bit of humble pie and say that he has been vastly in that regard over the last 2-3 games. A significantly marked improvement. So fair play to MickMac on that.
Doherty was outstanding all round. My motm i think. He played so well - it looks like the game just comes so easily to him. There was a few times in the second half where he just carried the ball out of the rb position and set up chances for us. Took his goal very well too - easy to lose concentration there and think the ball wont reach you. I think the position is his to lose.
I am not confident we will make the euros next year - the path is difficult - but, overall, I wonder if Mick not having had the luxury of the NL and a few additional friendlies to look at his team and formation cost us automatic qualification here?
That same site lists Glenn Whelan as having made 0 tackles..
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
i didn't. stan certainly didn't fit this description though.....
We've generally appointed dinosaurs. We consistently go for marquee managers that are famous for something they last did a decade before.
and that's my point
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