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Thread: Switzerland v Republic of Ireland - Geneva - 15th October 2019 - Euro 2020 Qualifier

  1. #241
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    Long with his experience , pace , athleticism and very good attitude on the field and as I far as I know in the squad should be in the reckoning .

    Mick McCarthy could do worse than give Shane Long a call .

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    There's been more of a swing back in the interest of Irish football fans in the fate of the Irish team recently, and I think a large part of it is guys becoming disenfrachised with the PL, for many reasons, and a lot of people are starting to look closer to home for their football kicks.
    I think from being on this forum for the guts of 15 years, its easy to see that the vast majority of us are all vested in the performances of the National team above everything else, and it hurts to see us play so poorly, which is a mad thing to say when you consider some of the dross that's we've played before.

    There are a lot of peculiarities about performances under this specific group of players over the last 4/5 years. We invest so much time trying to stop other teams from playing, and winning the ball back, but don't invest the same effort in keeping the ball. We look to offer little in attacking intent or threat when we have parity in a game, yet if we go behind we can put teams on the back foot at will. It is maddening. It could be said that we are in the worst position possible in that all of our attacking players, are guys who have someone else to do it for them at club level. We have no pivot so to speak. The pivot players that we do have are either in the 21s (or 19s), or are Jack Byrne (untested) or Didsy, who gets picked in a position to become the pivot weakens the overall structure of the team.

    I've said a few times previously that as a National team, we are too slow to change; we are too slow to call players up and use them; too slow to drop someone who is either not playing well, or is playing in place of someone who is playing better.
    You've hit not one nail on the head in your post Kingdom, but a few. You are 100 per cent correct in saying that we spent too much time stopping other teams playing and not enough time attacking. That is a mindset which has bedeviled us for decades. That mindset needs to change as soon as possible. And the other important thing you refer to is us being too slow to drop poorly performing players. That has killed us for years (think Jeff Hendrick) and also needs to change

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  4. #243
    First Team irishfan86's Avatar
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    A lot of our issues come down to our lack of what Trap referred to as players with "personality," specifically in midfield. I believe what Trap meant by that is alpha dogs....players who will to get on the ball and get involved in matches, even and especially under pressure.

    Whelan has personality to a degree but is past his best physically. Meanwhile Hourihane and Hendrick are guys that can play a sort of complementary role & certainly have a goal in them -- but don't have the capacity or personality to control a game. I would suggest James McCarthy has that personality but I understand his lack of involvement in this campaign given his lack of first team matches.

    So Mick is left between choosing "top level" players used to playing supporting roles, or taking what will be a perceived risk by playing a guy used to being more influential in his team at a lower level (perhaps Byrne or someone from the Championship). I can sympathize with the situation and I don't blame Mick for it.
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=nHeE4BcykHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSNLXSIxm_E Watch from 3.20 to 3.50Ok, it's only the SPFL, but are we blessed with scoring wingers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demesne Lad View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=nHeE4BcykHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSNLXSIxm_E Watch from 3.20 to 3.50Ok, it's only the SPFL, but are we blessed with scoring wingers?
    Christ.

  7. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philly View Post
    Christ.
    Who is he playing for ?

  8. #247
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    He plays for the Saints, on the left of the top three.

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  10. #248
    First Team Fixer82's Avatar
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    Horgan hasnít put a foot wrong in an Ireland shirt. Deserves another shot in my opinion

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  12. #249
    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brine3 View Post
    I do sometimes wonder if Jack did more damage to Irish football in the long term than he did good.

    It's not as if we were hopeless before he came along. There's a case to be me made that the 1982 team was one of the best Irish teams there ever was, but had to deal with extremely dodgy refereeing in favour of Belgium on multiple occasions.

    How would Jack have gotten on if his Euro 88 or Italia 90 qualification group had France, Belgium and the Netherlands in it...
    I cannot recall where I read it or heard it, but the problem wasn't the damage Jack did to Irish football, but more the problem Irish football did to itself. The FAI and the schoolboy clubs were not prepared for the explosion in numbers in football, and this meant that people not from football backgrounds - particularly in the cities - ended up helping out running teams and coaching. And more often than not, if they were from a GAA background, it was "lump into batch in the forwards", or if they had no background, it was a case of do what Jack does, and kick it long! And it took a long time for that to be weeded out of kids football.

    I can tell you now, I'm living in one of the countries that is held aloft as a vision for kids football, and it's bull****. Irish kids are as talented as any around. What we need is to keep developing the structures in Ireland, the facilities, the transport, the education. It'll pay off, we just need to invest.
    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    I take a different view.

    I see Jack as the Messiah of Irish football.

    If I see a consistent mistake this last 20 years it's failure to be aggressive enough with the long ball game. We get the odd guy who looks like he is a bit of a baller and get fixated on him. There have been a few names. Andy Reid. Keith Fahey. Wes Hoolahan. Jack Byrne.

    Counties have a style. The Italians are slow and patient. The English are up-and-atem. The Argentinians are dirty and the Brazilians are beautiful.

    We knock it long and fight the opposition in their half. We inflict our game on the opposition. We put 'em under pressure.

    It's the only way we've ever had success.

    So whether it's Niall Quinn, Caleb Folan or David McGoldrick my default position is knock it long, fight for it in their half and see what happens next. In the last 20 years we have scored so many late goals against teams who we have little right to even score against by following that exact approach when it's too late for anything else. Everyone remembers Robbie Keane scoring in 2002 form a Quinn knockdown. I also remember him scoring against Italy in 2009 form a Folan knockdown. If it can work in the 88th minute it can work in the 19th.

    I think we should do this because it suits the players we tend to produce, and because nobody else does it. We should be the crazy gang of international football. Score form long balls and set pieces. It give teams a problem they just don't have to deal with elsewhere. There is merit in that alone.
    Last edited by backstothewall; 21/10/2019 at 12:58 AM.

  14. #251
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    Opposition teams are much better at keeping the ball than they used to be due to better pitches / technical players / tactics etc etc etc .

    You will be seeing little or no ball if you keep giving it away easily these days . You’ll run your legs to stumps and have nothing to show for it .

  15. #252
    First Team irishfan86's Avatar
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    I think there is something to what backstothewall is saying but Iíd add in that thereís a difference between playing a purposeful long ball game, using the right players, vs just kick and run.

    While you are right Seanfhear, I also think this move toward technical defenders can be a liability at times for those teams. If opposing teams are selecting ball playing CBs over the big tall athletes that Irish/British teams tend to favour, there can be a vulnerability there if you have the right players to physically overpower them.

    Ultimately though, I think the backstothewall approach probably isnít viable with the players we have. Iíd add McGoldrick is not the battering ram you make him out to be & is actually quite a tidy footballer.

    Mick has at times played a high press and thatís the closest we will see to the Charlton approach until we have a proper target man....Iím thinking Idah is the only obvious guy in the pipeline to become that kind of battering ram option but is probably 3 or 4 years away from becoming an established pro.

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  17. #253
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    I think Switzerland play the game effectively, to what backstothewall is saying, with the quality of player they have. They play long ball more often than most teams wed play against, but can also play in the middle. THere is merit in it, but not 90% of the time, not anymore, the game has evolved, we'd be chasing shadows all the time. Oh wait, we are already.
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  18. #254
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    Playing a long ball doesn't necessarily mean you need a target man. It helps and I think McGoldrick has that in his game but with the way most full backs push forward these days the best space to put a long ball into is often the corners. Centre backs tend to hate going out there as it pulls their shape apart but if the striker they are marking moves out to pick up a ball played over the head of a full back who is stranded in our half they don't really have any other option.

    There are limitations to how effective the approach can be. But that's the case with any tactical plan. The pitch against Switzerland would have been an issue given the amount of running needed.

    No matter how we pass the ball, short long or intermediate, we need to do it faster. We take to many touches and need more urgency in our game.

  19. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    Playing a long ball doesn't necessarily mean you need a target man. It helps and I think McGoldrick has that in his game but with the way most full backs push forward these days the best space to put a long ball into is often the corners. Centre backs tend to hate going out there as it pulls their shape apart but if the striker they are marking moves out to pick up a ball played over the head of a full back who is stranded in our half they don't really have any other option.

    There are limitations to how effective the approach can be. But that's the case with any tactical plan. The pitch against Switzerland would have been an issue given the amount of running needed.

    No matter how we pass the ball, short long or intermediate, we need to do it faster. We take to many touches and need more urgency in our game.
    A little bit of perspective on the long ball game. I played at a quite high level in Ireland before emigrating to the US (and I should say it was some 30 years ago). All we did in Ireland was play the long ball game and at one hundred miles an hour to boot. Within six months of lacing up boots in America I had learned more about technique and tactics than I was ever taught in Ireland. Reason being I came up against Italian, Portuguese, Polish, Brazilian, Colombian teams who put a premium on holding possession and constructing attacking moves. The long ball game was effective but only to a point. And it was nothing but a fools game when you played in high heat and humidity. The only thing I learned - and it was through trial and error - was that if an Irish style team wants to put more accomplished opponents under maximum pressure, it starts with sitting two or three attackers on the opponents' defenders for kick outs. This way the goalkeeper is forced to kick long which usually plays into our hands.

  20. #256
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    A little bit of perspective on the long ball game. I played at a quite high level in Ireland before emigrating to the US (and I should say it was some 30 years ago). All we did in Ireland was play the long ball game and at one hundred miles an hour to boot. Within six months of lacing up boots in America I had learned more about technique and tactics than I was ever taught in Ireland. Reason being I came up against Italian, Portuguese, Polish, Brazilian, Colombian teams who put a premium on holding possession and constructing attacking moves. The long ball game was effective but only to a point. And it was nothing but a fools game when you played in high heat and humidity. The only thing I learned - and it was through trial and error - was that if an Irish style team wants to put more accomplished opponents under maximum pressure, it starts with sitting two or three attackers on the opponents' defenders for kick outs. This way the goalkeeper is forced to kick long which usually plays into our hands.
    Fair point. Might not be the best approach for a World Cup being held in Qatar. But for me that's very much one of those bridges you work out how to cross when you get there.

    It would be a wonderful problem to have.

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