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Thread: 3 tier league

  1. #41
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Suggesting that this amalgamated league would retain 7/8 European spaces is second only to Delaneys 33rd team lark in the ridiculous stakes.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    If the AIL ever happened, a huge issue would be what day / time for matches. There is no way LOI clubs will go for 3pm on a Sat, and not sure IL clubs would go for Friday nights, so what is the solution?

    The 3pm Sat ko is obv suiting most of IL clubs as their players work Mon- Fri, prob train Tues and Thurs nights, could some go full time training in the am?

    Back to the KO time though, Sat tea time / evening?
    We're told that one of the big benefits of an all-island league would be a big TV broadcaster coming on board and paying for rights.

    They would no doubt look to broadcast at least one gap a week - if not more.

    In which case, there almost certainly wouldn't be a single uniform KO time for all games anyway, as TV schedules would influence it.

    Some IL clubs currently play on a Friday night already - either for TV or out of preference.

    Also - we manage to run the LOI with different clubs preferring different days for matches, and it's not been a big deal.

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    When the FAI and clubs sat down and dreamt up this 3 tier split there is one question nobody asked ... what do the fans want?

    Seen a poll on Domestic Ireland twitter and its 87% in favour of keeping the current format versus a split.

    Change for change sake as usual.

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    We're told that one of the big benefits of an all-island league would be a big TV broadcaster coming on board and paying for rights.

    They would no doubt look to broadcast at least one gap a week - if not more.

    In which case, there almost certainly wouldn't be a single uniform KO time for all games anyway, as TV schedules would influence it.

    Some IL clubs currently play on a Friday night already - either for TV or out of preference.

    Also - we manage to run the LOI with different clubs preferring different days for matches, and it's not been a big deal.
    If this ever comes to pass the financial aspect will likely have clubs willing to move traditional game slots. Sundays are out for some IL clubs but with some proper planning on fixtures scheduling these issues can be overcome. Most LoI clubs play Fridays, we have also had a batch of midweek games. Sligo usually play Saturday evenings, IL clubs mainly play Saturdays - it could be a spread of fixtures that actually gives a broadcaster plenty of scope.

  6. #45
    First Team seand's Avatar
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    Whatever about LoI and IL teams generally playing at different times over the weekend, there's also the small matter of the two league playing on entirely different calendars.

  7. #46
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Bit of flexible thinking will sort that.

    You run a 12-month season starting in Jul and ending in Jun. Jul-Oct is IL v LoI games. Nov-Feb is IL v IL only. Mar-Jun is LoI v LoI only. Sorted!

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    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Suggesting that this amalgamated league would retain 7/8 European spaces is second only to Delaneys 33rd team lark in the ridiculous stakes.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that, unlikely yes - but for example in Canada they run a seperate qualfication tournament for their CONCACAF representative as thier teams play in MLS - so there is precedent for both countries to keep both Champions League spots if the leagues merge. The Champions league spot is the big money one.
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    Not strictly topic related but if you want to see the dangers of any team not making a top 6 cut have a look at some of the points totals comparing this season and last season
    2 games left for all bar Pats and Derry in 2019 (they have 3)

    .................................................. .............2019 ................2018


    Dundalk 83 87
    Rovers 69 62
    Bohs 56 48
    Derry 51 42
    Pats 48 50
    Sligo 42 42
    Waterford 40 59
    Cork 34 77
    Last edited by sbgawa; 14/10/2019 at 4:54 PM.

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    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-38585265.html

    Excellent explainer of the All-Island League plan here. Hard to say it lacks detailed research, just a case of having the funds to back it up and make it viable!

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    Reserves D24Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdManRun View Post
    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-38585265.html

    Excellent explainer of the All-Island League plan here. Hard to say it lacks detailed research, just a case of having the funds to back it up and make it viable!
    Paywall what was the gist.

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    Seasoned Pro passinginterest's Avatar
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    Thereís no paywall on the Indo just need to register an account.

    Seems to be more to it than whatís been suggested previously. Top league would effectively be a separate entity run by a commercial company (like the English premier league). 14 team top league with North and South leagues below that.

    Doesnít get into the European places too much, UEFA seem to have said come back to us once you have a something that looks like itís going to happen. Presumably the argument would be that two separate FAs will continue to exist in two separate UEFA nations, so there would be a league within a league type scenario for the European places, potentially.

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  14. #52
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Is it just some punter making up a new league structure which sounds dynamic and new, or is there any sort of attempt to show how the new structure would actually lead to an improved league?

    Because pretty much any proposal I've ever seen can be summed up as Detailed new league format -> [scene missing] -> profit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Is it just some punter making up a new league structure which sounds dynamic and new, or is there any sort of attempt to show how the new structure would actually lead to an improved league?

    Because pretty much any proposal I've ever seen can be summed up as Detailed new league format -> [scene missing] -> profit!
    Anything Iíve read of the financial planning seems to revolve around TV deals, but I also remember reading about Irish-American investment based on the positive PR around a cross-boarder competition. Potentially pie in the sky, but better chance securing investment than at present.

    On a basic level, youíd imagine there would be an upturn in attendances/sponsorship for each club which would generate more income. Clubs in either first division would face less travel distance which would be a way of cutting back on spending too.

    The fact that it would just be 26 league games, one home and one away, meaning no midweek games would be great too!

    The part I donít understand is why the Quinn group donít just row in behind this proposal and copper fasten the expertise they claim to have and put it behind a solid and cohesive plan?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdManRun View Post
    Anything I’ve read of the financial planning seems to revolve around TV deals, but I also remember reading about Irish-American investment based on the positive PR around a cross-boarder competition. Potentially pie in the sky, but better chance securing investment than at present.

    On a basic level, you’d imagine there would be an upturn in attendances/sponsorship for each club which would generate more income. Clubs in either first division would face less travel distance which would be a way of cutting back on spending too.
    Problem for me is that "potentially pie in the sky" and "you'd imagine there would" really don't cut it when talking about something like this. You need solid details - an actual TV deal, or actual sponsorship or investment opportunities.

    That's why the best thing for the league is to hammer out a TV deal or to increase the sponsorship, not play about with the league structure. To me, this just sounds like the same aul ****e again.

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    Seasoned Pro passinginterest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Problem for me is that "potentially pie in the sky" and "you'd imagine there would" really don't cut it when talking about something like this. You need solid details - an actual TV deal, or actual sponsorship or investment opportunities.

    That's why the best thing for the league is to hammer out a TV deal or to increase the sponsorship, not play about with the league structure. To me, this just sounds like the same aul ****e again.
    Hard to say without seeing the actual proposal. Based on the article, this guy seems to have a very promising track record, has done a lot of prep work and research and allegedly has serious tv interest and sponsors lined up.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    So get the TV and sponsorship deals done then.

    Why the need to focus on daft league restructuring as part of it all?

    Sounds similar to Platinum One, who had great things lined up for an AIL, but who were ultimately all bull**** when it came to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Problem for me is that "potentially pie in the sky" and "you'd imagine there would" really don't cut it when talking about something like this. You need solid details - an actual TV deal, or actual sponsorship or investment opportunities.

    That's why the best thing for the league is to hammer out a TV deal or to increase the sponsorship, not play about with the league structure. To me, this just sounds like the same aul ****e again.
    If you want a new structure with a guarantee of success, you're probably not going to get it.

    There's going to have to be some degree of educated guess/leap in the dark over all of this.

    I would fully expect attendances to increase substantially if a new and novel structure was introduced, combined with marketing of it for example. No-one has any idea what those attendances would be. Or even what type of marketing is likely to work best in driving them. This is all about trying something new.

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    Reserves A N Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    If you want a new structure with a guarantee of success, you're probably not going to get it.

    There's going to have to be some degree of educated guess/leap in the dark over all of this.

    I would fully expect attendances to increase substantially if a new and novel structure was introduced, combined with marketing of it for example. No-one has any idea what those attendances would be. Or even what type of marketing is likely to work best in driving them. This is all about trying something new.
    Are the two things getting conflated here?

    I don't see how you can put forward an ail proposal to anyone clubs, sponsor, TV or investors without having some idea of structure in place, as it's something that doesn't currently exist.

    This three tier thing though smacks of the usual rearranging the deckchairs. But it's been put to clubs as an alternative to lucid's proposal and clubs need to make up their minds by Nov 4th.

    But any reasonable person could come up with a better proposal than that one after a few pints of stout.

    Having had a few pints here's my proposal.

    For two years have one twenty team division playing each other home and away. May require some hand waving with uefa.

    In the third year split the teams back into two, ten team, divisions based on total points over previous two seasons. Premier being top 10, first being bottom.

    At the begining of each season each division is split into two five team conferences, based only on previous season final standings top 5 and bottom 5.

    Over the course of a season you play each team in the division home and away, and a second home and away series against each team in the same conference for a total of 26 games.

    1st and 2nd overall quality for europe, regardless of conference.

    Two teams would be relegated, based not on final points but on an average or coefficient of that year and previous two.

    While top two in first get automatic promotion.

    All twenty teams would then be involved in a post season cup. The bottom two sides in each conference would go into hat to contest the first round, the remaining teams starting in round 2. Straight knockout format, a European place up for grabs for winner falling back to highest finishing team not already qualified. If a non promoted first division team qualified, they would also be promoted.

    This would happen before fai cup final so that would affect this, after the fact. The fai cup place would still only go to winners and go to third in the league if first or second won it.

  22. #59
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    If you want a new structure with a guarantee of success, you're probably not going to get it.

    There's going to have to be some degree of educated guess/leap in the dark over all of this.
    Absolutely agree with the first bit.

    Which is why there doesn't have to be any leap in the dark over format. You just don't change it. It's fine. It's not the problem.

    And I don't agree at all that a "new and novel structure", combined with marketing, would increase crowds "substantially". We've done it before and it hasn't worked. Because ultimately a new and novel structure combined with marketing means nothing has actually changed. UCD v Cork is still UCD v Cork. But UCD v Cork where we can both afford to hold on to our better players would draw a bigger crowd.

    If someone has sponsors to bring in, let them do it. A focus on format to me screams that their sponsors aren't all they're worked up to be.

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    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Armenia, Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Rep, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Isreal, Lithuania, Poland, Scotland, Serbia, Slovakia, Ukraine and Wales.

    All countries which have some form of split in thier league structure. I understand the argument re TV money investment etc but I'm all for anything that will add meaning to games. Yes we have done it before but nothing as radical as this - I'm looking forward to how it pans out if I'm honest. Will there be playoffs as well as the splits - can we,crucially - add an element of relegation to the bottom 6 Div 1 grouping, which will be important imo.

    Investment and money are not forthcoming into the league - a radical restructure can envigorate and refresh the league - as it has done in many other leagues accross Europe.
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