Adam Idah F. Celtic b.2001

[yurt]

Idah has been a stand out performer in Norwich's last 2 games and all of a sudden they are off the bottom of the foot of the table.

Doesn't seem all that likely that they will mount a proper escape challenge but that win buys them a few more weeks of not being done and dusted. Seems likely now that he will be nailed for another couple games now.

The common sound bite has been that he just needs a run and he'll get a goal and from there he will have a chance to kick on. The next 6 weeks now will go a long way to seeing if he will have a meaning premier league career or not.

It's not inconceivable that Idah could start 10-15 more games this season, get 5+ goals and Norwich stay up. Then who knows where that could lead.

I wouldn't bet on that happening but it was a million miles away in October and now it's only a few 100 miles away so feeling a lot more optimistic about Idahs potential.

[samhaydenjr]

Michael Reddy scored in the Premier League at 19. Josh McEachren played six Champions League games before his 18th birthday and is now at MK Dons. One-off landmarks don't mean anything.

In terms of goals per minute, would you not include Idah's international stats (0 goals in 830 minutes)?

And are you suggesting we have players capable of 25-40 international goals each? Well clear as our second highest scorer ever? There's nothing to justify that optimism. I think a look back at your posts on the Troy Parrott thread might help bring you back down to earth

One thing I will say is I suggested Idah/Connolly/Parrott shouldn't be in the March squads unless their club situations changed. Idah's has (assuming he continues to start), and Connolly's has too in fairness.

Let's see where all three careers go in the next 12 months, but I don't see the point in setting such targets as 40 international goals. It can only lead to disappointment

Had a really detailed response to this but lost it - the gist was, yes we have a number of young forwards who are still well on track for very good careers and that I can see a number of them breaking Quinn's record of 21, even Robinson might catch him. In part this will be down to playing more games, particularly against lesser teams. I noted again how late Aldridge started scoring for us, how Idah's first bunch of caps were during a really low spell for the team when nobody was scoring and how he, Obafemi and Connolly have already played more EPL football than Reddy and McEachran. So I think that, while I can't predict it for certain, I think any of the following players could well break Quinn's mark - Robinson, Idah, Connolly, Obafemi, Parrott, Ferguson, Odubeko, Okoflex, Zefi and Kavanagh (who just scored a hat-trick for Middlesbrough's U23s while still being U18-eligible) So while, yes we do have to wait and see a bit longer, I still feel there is plenty of cause for optimism as we are seeing developments in this department almost weekly

[sadloserkid]

as an aside... there are some on this forum who just cant help themselves but to continually pour cold water on any kind of omptimism. they seem to think its their role. its getting to be a real bore tbh...

I'm on the other side of this JB, I find the continual assertions that lads are well on track to be top class based on nothing more than their passport to be jarringly misplaced and a bit boring. I much prefer a discussion where people make counterpoints and then more counterpoints are made to that and a bit of a discussion is had in a generally polite and even friendly fashion. If I wanted a flame war or an echo chamber I'd be reading twitter.

[liamoo11]

I'm on the other side of this JB, I find the continual assertions that lads are well on track to be top class based on nothing more than their passport to be jarringly misplaced and a bit boring. I much prefer a discussion where people make counterpoints and then more counterpoints are made to that and a bit of a discussion is had in a generally polite and even friendly fashion. If I wanted a flame war or an echo chamber I'd be reading twitter.

I agree with you on this. What has made this forum fun over the years is that it encourages discussion and a bit of indept analysis of issues in a respectful manner. To me it was what always made it stand out from ybig. I'd feel it was a big loss if we lost that discussion and balance on here .

For me the over optimism of new players is I think because how bleak things looked 3 or 4 years ago. I have attached the report https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45351104 of the hammering wales gave us in 2018 where they looked like they had this endless pool of talented youngsters and we looked so stale with no youth on the horizon. Like the rest of us on here back then I felt positive about the players we had in our underage sides at the time including Idah but it was hard not to feel depressed when all you read and heard on the media and from the wider public was that we had no talent and no hope on the horizon. As you say though best not to go to the other extreme now especially when we have achieved nothing to date. Now if we win our nations league group then it's lose our minds time!

[jbyrne]

I'm on the other side of this JB, I find the continual assertions that lads are well on track to be top class based on nothing more than their passport to be jarringly misplaced and a bit boring. I much prefer a discussion where people make counterpoints and then more counterpoints are made to that and a bit of a discussion is had in a generally polite and even friendly fashion. If I wanted a flame war or an echo chamber I'd be reading twitter.

its not just on how players are progressing or not.... its also ROI team performances, SK, etc etc.
Its the same few voices constantly jumping on any kind of optimism or positives. we are not expecting Idah, or any of our young strikers, to be the next robbie keane but a young irish lad getting his first EPL goal, getting MOTM for the 2nd game in a row and making a respected team of the week is a positive to me and others

[passinginterest]

I've been backing Idah for a long time and saying if he gets games he'll make the breakthrough. I think, if he starts the next 8 league games for Norwich he'll score at least 3 more goals. If he doesn't, I'll donate a tenner the the forum charity of choice!

[sadloserkid]

its not just on how players are progressing or not.... its also ROI team performances, SK, etc etc.
Its the same few voices constantly jumping on any kind of optimism or positives. we are not expecting Idah, or any of our young strikers, to be the next robbie keane but a young irish lad getting his first EPL goal, getting MOTM for the 2nd game in a row and making a respected team of the week is a positive to me and others

Fair enough. I honestly don't see Idah's first PL goal being spun as a negative by anybody at all though, it's just various degrees of positivity between "it's good and hopefully a sign of continued improvement from here" and "this goal means that a half dozen young strikers are likely to score 25-40 international goals". Nothing wrong with a different sense of perspective, the outcome is likely to be somewhere in the middle anyway.

[third policeman]

Fair enough. I honestly don't see Idah's first PL goal being spun as a negative by anybody at all though, it's just various degrees of positivity between "it's good and hopefully a sign of continued improvement from here" and "this goal means that a half dozen young strikers are likely to score 25-40 international goals". Nothing wrong with a different sense of perspective, the outcome is likely to be somewhere in the middle anyway.

I do think it’s significant that his recent performances have been whilst playing as part of a front two. He’s looked very isolated playing for Ireland and generally hasn’t looked like scoring or even getting into scoring positions. It’s something that Kenny / Barry need to think about. The change to a back three was about recognising our strengths, maybe time to play Robinson and Idah as two central strikers with the width coming from proper wing backs. The formation would give us an extra body in midfield as well.

[tetsujin1979]

I've been backing Idah for a long time and saying if he gets games he'll make the breakthrough. I think, if he starts the next 8 league games for Norwich he'll score at least 3 more goals. If he doesn't, I'll donate a tenner the the forum charity of choice!

Noted

[pineapple stu]

I'm on the other side of this JB, I find the continual assertions that lads are well on track to be top class based on nothing more than their passport to be jarringly misplaced and a bit boring. I much prefer a discussion where people make counterpoints and then more counterpoints are made to that and a bit of a discussion is had in a generally polite and even friendly fashion. If I wanted a flame war or an echo chamber I'd be reading twitter.

That's exactly it for me. I mean, if he scores again at the weekend there's some will have him up for a Ballon d'Or nomination in 12 months.

By way of context, this is a post from sam on the Aaron Connolly thread - three years ago!

OK then... Obafemi is now a Premier League scorer and full international, Connolly is on the verge of his league debut for Luton, Afolabi is lining up a move to Millwall, Kayode is in matchday squads for Rotherham, Keena scored in the Scottish Cup and is in Hearts' matchday squads, Parrott is training with the Spurs first team and Oko-Flex is scoring regularly for Celtic's reserves. The wave is starting to crest lads

Like I say, the insight into variously obscure up-and-coming youngsters on here is great, but jaysus, a sense of perspective is needed (as slk has outlined perfectly for me). A sense of perspective is not negativity.

[SkStu]

Arent we, as football fans, all on the rollercoaster of hope and optimism with massive peaks and valleys of both depending on the time of day and what we had for breakfast? In 99% of cases on here and elsewhere, todays cynic is tomorrows dreamer.

Now I've swung back down again
It's worse than it was before
If I hadn't seen such riches
I could live with being poor

[JR89]

I do think it’s significant that his recent performances have been whilst playing as part of a front two. He’s looked very isolated playing for Ireland and generally hasn’t looked like scoring or even getting into scoring positions. It’s something that Kenny / Barry need to think about. The change to a back three was about recognising our strengths, maybe time to play Robinson and Idah as two central strikers with the width coming from proper wing backs. The formation would give us an extra body in midfield as well.

Think he'd face similar issues in a front two with Robinson. He's playing well with Pukki at the moment but at times he's like a number 10 dropping back for the ball with Pukki playing further forward.

If we were to play him in a front two would probably need to pair him with someone like Connolly more than Robinson.

[Razors left peg]

Jaysus Sam - I think you're one of the more informed posters here, but you don't half do extreme optimism!

I don't think it's hyper-critical to say that Idah's first touch in acres of space nearly cost him his goal, or that his one-on-one miss in the second half was as bad as you'll see. Let's also note an Everton side in disarray - 6 points from 39, which has got Benitez sacked.

It's great to see him getting game time, but one scrappy goal is long long way from forming half of a "mouthwatering" attacking partnership with one of three guys who've done nothing at senior level yet, one of whom isn't even sure if he wants to play for us!

Norwich - still on course to have the worst goalscoring record in English league history - have an easy-ish run of games coming up. Watford, Palace, Southampton, Brentford and Leeds in the next eight games (along with Wolves, Man City and Liverpool). Let's see how those go before setting him targets like yours!

His 1st touch for the goal was poor but he reacted well to finish. In general his 1st touch is excellent. His hold up play at the weekend was similar to the away Portugal game for us where his touch was brilliant.

Ive been on the fence with Idah, but he was due a bit of luck. He works hard, and was very unlucky not to score in previous game with a brilliant bit of skill and shot.

Yes its only 1 goal but the signs that he is emerging into a very good player are there.... try to enjoy it

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, he recovered well to score for sure, but a better defence won't give him the chance to. He works hard, but I think he lacks a bit of composure in front of goal tbh (the one-on-one a great example of that). It's why I don't see him as a 25-40 goal international striker, but more a potential Shane Long (or dare I say it, a Conor Sammon!) - will hold the ball up and bring others into the game, but won't score a huge amount himself.

If he improves and becomes international standard, then great - but balanced discussion is better than getting carried away about how he'll be part of a mouthwatering striker partnership in a few years' time.

[Razors left peg]

You're comparing a 20 year old starting in the Premiership to Conor Sammon..... think about that for a second!

[Olé Olé]

Yeah, he recovered well to score for sure, but a better defence won't give him the chance to. He works hard, but I think he lacks a bit of composure in front of goal tbh (the one-on-one a great example of that). It's why I don't see him as a 25-40 goal international striker, but more a potential Shane Long (or dare I say it, a Conor Sammon!) - will hold the ball up and bring others into the game, but won't score a huge amount himself.

If he improves and becomes international standard, then great - but balanced discussion is better than getting carried away about how he'll be part of a mouthwatering striker partnership in a few years' time.

Are you trying to assert your own opinion here or the importance of "perspective"? The subjectivity involved here with regards to estimating how far Idah can go is immense. It feels to me like you believe your opinion to be more balanced than some of the others here. But that is also subjective.

People can get carried away based on what they have seen if they believe what they have seen merits that. I would argue that, in my view, calling Idah a potential Conor Sammon goes quite some distance the other direction and beyonds the realms of balance.

[pineapple stu]

The Conor Sammon thing is jokey - I'm allowed to as a UCD fan who doesn't get to see many of our players capped at international level. A look at the Sammon thread will confirm that.

There is a point there though in comparing playing style, which I made. And Sammon has played more PL games than Idah too. Idah can have more potential than Sammon while still being a comparable kind of player - that is, a physical forward who doesn't score many but who can hold the ball up well and bring others into the game

(Also, phrases that start "I think..." are clearly just my opinion and open for discussion on a discussion forum)

[Razors left peg]

The Conor Sammon thing is jokey - I'm allowed to as a UCD fan who doesn't get to see many of our players capped at international level. A look at the Sammon thread will confirm that.

And Sammon has played more PL games than Idah too.

You would expect so considering Idah is only feckin 20.... Sammon has played 32 times in Premiership compared to Idahs 27.

27 appearances in the Premiership is very creditable for any 20 year old. You should have stopped at "Conor Sammon thing is jokey".

[samhaydenjr]

That's exactly it for me. I mean, if he scores again at the weekend there's some will have him up for a Ballon d'Or nomination in 12 months.

By way of context, this is a post from sam on the Aaron Connolly thread - three years ago!

Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
OK then... Obafemi is now a Premier League scorer and full international, Connolly is on the verge of his league debut for Luton, Afolabi is lining up a move to Millwall, Kayode is in matchday squads for Rotherham, Keena scored in the Scottish Cup and is in Hearts' matchday squads, Parrott is training with the Spurs first team and Oko-Flex is scoring regularly for Celtic's reserves. The wave is starting to crest lads

Like I say, the insight into variously obscure up-and-coming youngsters on here is great, but jaysus, a sense of perspective is needed (as slk has outlined perfectly for me). A sense of perspective is not negativity.

Hey Stu, happy to keep perspective and willing to temper optimism where justified. And yes, I acknowledge that the breakthroughs haven't been as fast and complete as I might have hoped for when I wrote that post but there has still been significant progress. So lets first look at the players I mentioned:
- Connolly - from a wasted loan period at Luton to a brace against Spurs - 45 Premier League appearances, 5 Premier league goals plus 3 in the EFL Cup. Eight international caps. Some question marks about his professionalism and his later performances were underwhelming. But still considered good enough for a loan to a big Championship club where he has already had his first start. Not quite 22 yet - surely a qualified success
- Obafemi - Over 30 EPL appearances for Southampton with four goals. Injury, a question mark about his professionalism and Che Adams limited later appearances but another big Championship club have paid over $1.5m for him and he is playing semi-regularly - still only 21
- Parrott - over 50 appearances at Championship and League One level - all on loan so Spurs don't seem ready to offload him just yet. Ten international caps, two international goals - not yet 20 years old
- Afolabi - yes, the Celtic move has not worked out and I'm not really counting on him as our goalscoring saviour as he has not really impressed much on his loan spells - and there is talk that the Bhoys are ready to offload him (https://thecelticstar.com/celtic-ope...athan-afolabi/) that said, he has played nearly 40 games at Scottish Championship level and has just turned 22 so I will reserve full judgement until we see if he makes a good move
- Keena - yes, Keena has failed to establish himself at a high level and will likely be a lower level pro for now, anyway - could still be a late bloomer
- Kayode - Had a couple of successful lower-level loans including scoring 11 in 39 league appearances for Carlisle. Is now playing regularly for Rotherham's first team - only 21
- Oko-Flex - EPL debut starting to look imminent as he is on West Ham's bench most weeks - might still be a teenager when that happens

And the ones I didn't mention in that post starting with the man of the hour:
- Idah - hat-trick in the FA Cup, 13 international caps, managed 3 Championship goals in spite of limited opportunities under previous manager. New manager gives him a proper go go and he breaks his EPL duck almost immediately - not yet 21
- Scully - didn't even know who he was when I wrote the original post and he's already scored over 30 times for Lincoln - still only 22
- Ferguson - in the same position as Oko-Flex, plus he's already scored his first against senior opposition and set up a winner in The Cup and he's still only 17!
- Odubeko - has also scored his first goals against senior opposition and made his senior debut at Huddersfield, even if it was a disappointing loan spell - still in his teens

At this point I really can't see all of them ending up in lower levels or falling out of professional football - and I haven't even mentioned Kenny, Zefi, Kavanagh, McLoughlin, Varian, Cassidy, Armstrong, Drinan and Cannon

At this point, the only young strikers we've talked about who you could really write off as potential internationals are Hale, McAuley and Keena - everybody else is still, to various degrees, on track for solid careers

[jbyrne]

His 1st touch for the goal was poor but he reacted well to finish. In general his 1st touch is excellent. His hold up play at the weekend was similar to the away Portugal game for us where his touch was brilliant.

or maybe his first touch is what makes the goal by tempting the goal keeper off his line so idah can poke it past him.
who cares anyway..... it ended in the net.