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Thread: LoI 2nd & 3rd August

  1. #41
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Harps winner against Bohs was a bit of a cracker. Ascroft picked the ball up in midfield himself, played in the cross, and scored the winner. Not a bad minute of action from him.


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    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalymountrower View Post
    That Rovers team would be comfortably winning leagues if it wasn't for Dundalk. Nothing to do with Corks regression.
    It's difficult to know if you are taking about the past, present or the future, but there is little evidence to back up your view

    Past

    Rovers currently have 52 points from 26 matches - an average of 2.0 per match

    That average points per match would have achieved maximum of 3rd place in any of the last 5 years since Cork became prominent in 2014

    Present

    Rovers are currently second - of course they would be top if it wasn't for Dundalk.

    However Cork were well ahead of Rovers current 52 points total at this stage last year. Rovers current performance levels would have them in 3rd place last season.

    Cork demise has opened the door for Rovers and has led to lots of hype and delusions about their performances

    Future
    Who knows - perhaps a lot depends on whether they retain the manager or not?

    Shamrock Rovers have clearly improved and have added some more strength in recent signings, but have a distance to travel yet

  4. #43
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Limerick's first loss to Cabinteely last night. Is the season over yet?

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    Reserves D24Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Harps winner against Bohs was a bit of a cracker. Ascroft picked the ball up in midfield himself, played in the cross, and scored the winner. Not a bad minute of action from him.
    Bloody hell are they putting something different in the football special up there, that is a cracking goal.

  6. #45
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    If Harps escape relegation Ollie Horgan might get a call from a panicking owner in the EPL in January to save them from relegation

    Goes to show what consistant hard work can achieve and how things can come together. Obviously still a way to go but I dont think Harps fans can ask much more than givE themselves a chance to stay up. Assuming UCD are relegated fixtures in the run in suit Harps even if its just that Cork have Dundalk and Rovers in their last 2 fixtures so on the form guide getting within 5/6 points and staying there to the very end could see a very dramatic relegation play-off place battle. I dont think either would lose the play-off when the chips are down but as things are right now Harps being on the upward curve and Cork at best plateaued Harps would be the more positive even with Horgan's merchant of doom act. A lot of football still to be played at both ends of the table!

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    Reserves joey B's Avatar
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    It can still all turn very quickly and I wouldn't rule out UCD yet,they still have a game in hand on us one good result for them,which they're capable of and its back in the mixer,one thing we do have in our favour is we still have UCD and Waterford to come to Finn Park,it'll certainly be an intriguing end to the season.
    Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.

  8. #47
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Problem for us is we've only three home games left of nine, and have only one away point all season.

    Could have been so much different of course not just if we'd not lost players (Farrugia particularly annoying as he's still in college, but also O'Neill, Davis and Molloy), but also injuries and suspensions haven't helped. Josh Collins, Seán MacDonald, Evan Osam, Kearns of course - they've all missed a lot of games, and we just don't have the squad for that. And even when we didn't lose a player - Scales - we've still gotten messed around.

    Obviously there's a long way to go yet and it's only a few weeks since we beat Harps to put daylight the other way, so things can change. But if nothing else, we've another 8 scholarship players coming in shortly and worst case scenario is we should be challenging for the First Division title next season. And obviously fair dues to Harps if they can reach the play-offs - or even stay up - even though I do think Horgan is an absolute blight on the league.

  9. #48
    First Team ger121's Avatar
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    I think I’ll be putting the passport away for now. We have been rubbish of late and if we are not careful we could be out of Top 4 altogether.

  10. #49
    Reserves disgruntled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    I honestly thought Cork would not be pulled into the relegation zone, but after tonight I'd be very worried for them. Although they got a very good result last time out v Rovers, their home form this season is shocking.

    Losing can become a nasty habit and confidence must be almost rock bottom, this is an incredible rapid decline, even the very modest league winning Dundalk side of 1995 took 4 years to get relegated. That league winning side was an almost unbelievable win, if the season had gone on a week more we would have finished a deserved 3rd.
    We.re not being pulled, we're going of our own free will
    At the moment we're praying for Harps to return to form & stop winning

    Quote Originally Posted by PartySaint View Post
    That goal is the worst thing that could have happened to us, awful awful game and we’ve been like that all season.

    Cork are dreadful.
    That was one God awful game.
    Pats were as bad as us but at least they tried to play & managed to hold onto the ball.
    Highlight of the night was Clifford getting booked for diving
    Clarke must have thought he was in the back garden playing with kids so little had he to do.
    I can't wait for this season to end.

  11. #50
    First Team patrickccfc's Avatar
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    Cobh get a late late winner to beat shels 1-0

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    Not shocked by that. Shels have been on a run of winning games without playing consistently well and I was concerned after last weekends positive results there might have been early some champagne cork popping inside players and some fans minds. There was always plenty of rope to hang ourselves with Cobh (a), Longford (a), Bray (h), Drogheda (a), Limerick (h)

    Title race firmly back on between Shels, Drogheda and Longford
    The Leinster Senior League needs a strong Bohemians

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    Reserves D24Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Problem for us is we've only three home games left of nine, and have only one away point all season.
    H
    Could have been so much different of course not just if we'd not lost players (Farrugia particularly annoying as he's still in college, but also O'Neill, Davis and Molloy), but also injuries and suspensions haven't helped. Josh Collins, Seán MacDonald, Evan Osam, Kearns of course - they've all missed a lot of games, and we just don't have the squad for that. And even when we didn't lose a player - Scales - we've still gotten messed around.

    Obviously there's a long way to go yet and it's only a few weeks since we beat Harps to put daylight the other way, so things can change. But if nothing else, we've another 8 scholarship players coming in shortly and worst case scenario is we should be challenging for the First Division title next season. And obviously fair dues to Harps if they can reach the play-offs - or even stay up - even though I do think Horgan is an absolute blight on the league.
    They really have to get the fixture list sorted asap. The gaps between fixtures, gaps between home games, big games on Mondays , long trips on Mondays. It's a joke.

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  15. #53
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Yup. And now into the last 9 league games of the season, we effectively have the FAI Cup and the LSC only just starting. A club going on a run in both competitions will be swamped.

  16. #54
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    The ones I speak to aren't revelling, they are marvelling and stunned at the pace of the decline. Dundalk fans were initially chuffed that Cork fell down the table and are no longer rivals. However, that is old news, this is something new. People who have followed the LOI know that what can happen one club could happen to any club, we are all in the same boat.

    Clubs do not usually go from being in the top two for five consecutive years, cup finalists for four consecutive years, and double winners two years ago to this. Also Cork have been the beneficiary of massive European money in this time, probably adding up to 2-3 million.

    The rumours are that the cash is gone and they have no nest egg to get them out of their slump. They have players on long contracts who are crocked and past it and have an army of staff behind an unqualified "manager" who is out of his depth.

    The scale of the mess is unprecedented. Other clubs have got in troubling by borrowing for success. However, Cork had everything going for them, big crowds, big European cash, success, transfer revenue, and they still screwed it up.

    If a club can mess it up so badly given all those advantages, all other clubs should be very worried.
    Agree with this, it’s certainly the speed of the decline of Cork that I just can’t understand. This is still a full time training squad who should at a very minimum be comfortable in mid table. The players must have almost given up and that has to unacceptable.

    Im sure most are still on decent contracts, wages wise. It’s a real pity as Cork is one of our great sporting cities / areas, and were easily the best supported in LOI for home league games from around 2014-2018.
    #DundalkFC 4 titles in 5 years 2014/2015/2016/2018

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    It should be added that there shouldnt be a supporter across the league that would gloat at Cork's demise, Dundalk and Rovers as the current top two were not so long ago in the first division slugging it out for promotion (with one Vinny Perth practicing the dark arts in the Rovers side then). There isnt a club that hasnt gone through the full cycle of boom and bust!

    Do I care about Cork's current stock? No not particularly. Can I empathise with Cork supporters frustration? Absolutely!!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 04/08/2019 at 11:12 AM.

  18. #56
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    see in the first division that both shels,drogs and us have to play Bray and considering Bray want to make the playoffs its all to play for and I wouldnt be surprised to see a shock in one of these games!
    Neale Fenn red and black army

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    Seasoned Pro brendy_éire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    UCD were well in that game until Byrne went off. They missed him when he got injured
    They were, and even after we went 2-1 up, I still wasn't confident.
    Usual story again from ourselves or not taking chances when we get them.
    A win's a win though, and moves us into third place on goal difference.

  20. #58
    First Team sullanefc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Cotter is a Caulfield light manager - same tactics, same bizzare team selection, refuses to see the writing on the wall that real change is needed rather than hoping that they can play in to form.

    The Seanie title might actually have been a sort of negative in the long run as it covered over the cracks for a bit too long and allowed the rot to get hold.

    There doesnt even seem to be the passion or fight in the players that you always associate with Cork teams regardless of quality or style.
    Ya. Cotter was Caulfields assistant for 5 years. Expecting him to start playing a completely different style was never going to happen IMO. He is Caulfield light but with far less intensity. The players don't look like they are being inspired by him. 0 passion.

    I don't know how winning a league could be a negative but If Maguire doesn't win the league in 2017, does Caulfield lose his job? I don't know if the old board would have done it, but there would have been large dissent from the stands, myself included. There were calls for him to be let go in 2016...

    Ya. No passion in the players at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I've been hearing that Cotter is by no means out the door in November and that the board are considering him for the full time job? I dont think he has a pro licence and any appointment cant be very underwhelming if the club want the crowds back. It is the most important appointment in Cork's history so Cotter would be a big risk if it was possible to give him the job. Didnt the ladies manager joing the coaching staff because he had a pro licence? Also out of interest do FORAS have any input to the appointment of a manager or is just left to the board after they are elected - can members call an EGM for ecample if there are question marks over finances, player recruitment policy etc?
    There are rumours that Cotter is confident in getting the job. He is deluded if he thinks this. When the job was advertised the board told him to apply. My own feeling was that was done out of courtesy. He feels it is nailed on for him?? Don't know. It would be a disaster if he were appointed.

    Fans will have no say in the appointment. Only the elected board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Cork fans not happy with the board, whispers of financial diffiulty having played in Europe and with the largest attendances in the league - all quite normal for discussion on a LoI forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    Also Cork have been the beneficiary of massive European money in this time, probably adding up to 2-3 million.

    The rumours are that the cash is gone and they have no nest egg to get them out of their slump. They have players on long contracts who are crocked and past it and have an army of staff behind an unqualified "manager" who is out of his depth.
    On the finances, the way budgets work at City is that the manager is given the money and is free to spend it as he chooses. Having seen Caulfield spend a large budget has made me re think my opinion on directors of football who rein in wasteful managers. We had a squad of 29 at the start of the season made up mainly of squad fillers. The wastefulness was tragic. Much better to have a tighter squad of higher quality IMO.

    The old board set the budget for the coming season and it turns out they were very generous to Caulfield. The new board discovering that there is no nest egg (despite members voting a few years ago to have one in place) and the 2019 budget was set at a level that required attendances of 4000 per game. Ridiculous. Caulfield blows all the money and the current board, and Cotter, have been trimming a lot of the fat from the squad this summer. There has been finger pointing from supporters of old board to supporters of new board and vice versa but my own opinion is that the new board will do well when the mess is sorted. Any dissent you here will be coming from the old board who squandered all the money.

    We have only 2 players contracted for 2020 so there is no legacy issues re contracts and the new man has a blank canvass more or less but will have to operate a budget that doesn't include European money as we will not get there now.

    If that new man is Cotter,, I despair. The new board are smart people. They hardly would. Would they....

  21. #59
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    All fair comment. Not at all as per PC's claim that Dundalk fans are revelling in the Leeside fall from grace, the opposite is the case for some who miss the niggle. A few years nip and tuck with Rovers will occupy those types. I dont see how a board (legally) can overturn or ignore a decision by the members. There is little recourse but that alone should mean they'd be in for heavy criticism from all quarters. While Cotter wouldnt be an appointment that would galvanise supporters maybe he is hamstrung by the issues you mention - cleaning up a mess left and would be doing things differently if it were possible. I do think an appointment during the season gives a new manager that added time to assess things going forward assuming there isnt a risk of relegation.

    On an assistant taking over, and its by no means menat as the Dundalk way is the best way, but there are notable differences between Perth and Kenny. Perth is quicker to make changes when they are needed 1st half, half time and so on which you wouldnt have seen under SK. Perth also rotates and utilises the squad more - partly by necessity this season but squad players were allowed get stale imo in previous seasons whereas this season all possible combinations of players at the back have featured for example. Perth obviously wants to build his own legacy but a lot of what he is doing makes sense and this isnt a revisionist take on the Kenny era where some of the shine has come off due to him leaving. One of the main criticisms of SK during his time at Dundalk was an almost belligerent loyalty to players he payed to bring in when other options might have been better for selection.

    Who knows maybe Cotter and the board at Cork have had this very type of conversation and he is in with a shout and he can then build and play 'his own team'!?
    Last edited by Nesta99; 07/08/2019 at 10:04 AM.

  22. #60
    First Team sullanefc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I dont see how a board (legally) can overturn or ignore a decision by the members. There is little recourse but that alone should mean they'd be in for heavy criticism from all quarters.

    While Cotter wouldnt be an appointment that would galvanise supporters maybe he is hamstrung by the issues you mention - cleaning up a mess left and would be doing things differently if it were possible.

    I do think an appointment during the season gives a new manager that added time to assess things going forward assuming there isnt a risk of relegation.

    Who knows maybe Cotter and the board at Cork have had this very type of conversation and he is in with a shout and he can then build and play 'his own team'!?
    Apparently motions voted at FORAS meetings are not binding for the board and so it is legal to ignore them. That said, the board should be ashamed for 1. Ignoring the members and 2. For not being prudent in having a nest egg. Especially given the recent Arkaga and Tom Coughlan mismanagement of finances.

    I agree about making the permanent appointment now so the new guy can make assessments now, but I don't think appointing a new manager plus background staff is affordable. Plus all the existing coaches have to be paid too. Hence appointing from within. Apparently Healy and Bennett were approached before Cotter and they knocked it back. So we are where we are.

    I have heard the argument in Cotters favour that this is not his team/mess etc. But he can't be completely disassociated from the Caulfield era. Plus, whatever about poor tactics/team selection, the players haven't looked motivated and John Cotter is not one to inspire IMO. Plus the fact that 5/6 starters were in the league winning side means they should be doing better IMO.

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