Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly score for Spurs

[Donal81]

Quote...Jimbob117....How is Kelly not ready for the irish side?

1) He has no experience playing at international level.
2) Has not been a regular at Spurs for long.
3).As you said, had a nightmare 1st half against Arsenal.
4) We have Finnan ,Carr ,and O'Shea ahead of him to cover that role.

Saying this he is a good player and one for the future.

Jimbob only suggested bringing him in as cover. I can't see the harm in that, especially as Carr is suspended and O'Shea will most likely start on the left.

[FarBeag]

Maybe ......Stuttgart88... answered your query better than I did.

Kelly needs time to adjust to International Football,therefore needs to play in some friendlies before you could even consider playing him, especially now as we have such important games coming up.....

Morrison/Miller have been in the International scene for a while now and know what it's all about,i agree that they are not playing regular at present but both particulary Morrison are very important to our further progression.

As I say Kelly has great potential for the future and when we get over these vital upcoming games then give him a chance to go prove himself which I am sure he will do without a problem.

[jimbob117]

Maybe ......Stuttgart88... answered your query better than I did.

Kelly needs time to adjust to International Football,therefore needs to play in some friendlies before you could even consider playing him, especially now as we have such important games coming up.....

Morrison/Miller have been in the International scene for a while now and know what it's all about,i agree that they are not playing regular at present but both particulary Morrison are very important to our further progression.

As I say Kelly has great potential for the future and when we get over these vital upcoming games then give him a chance to go prove himself which I am sure he will do without a problem.

I still disagree with ya, what if finnan or o'shea get injured during the isreal match or before it?(with carr suspended) i know id rather have a recent premiership regular in kelly than a recent division 1 regular in maybury. Granted he has no experience but no better way to earn it, and after all, its not as if we are playing france, its faroes or isreal, hardly world beaters

[FarBeag]

Ok..We will agree to disagree on this one shall we..BTW Israel like ourselves may not be world beaters but they are not a bad side either.

[jimbob117]

Ok..We will agree to disagree on this one shall we..BTW Israel like ourselves may not be world beaters but they are not a bad side either.

Guess we'll disagree on that aswell, i dont think isreal are any great shakes, only that we didnt go for the victory and france arent up to scratch at the moment they would be nowhere near qualifying and still think they'll come 4th. anyway, thats another days work

[eirebhoy]

Israel outplayed France for the most of it a couple of months ago. They were the much better team against Switzerland and without a doubt deserved the win. They are an excellent team and still very much underrated among the Irish because of the way they set out against us.

[FarBeag]

Quote..Eirebhoy....Israel outplayed France for the most of it a couple of months ago. They were the much better team against Switzerland and without a doubt deserved the win. They are an excellent team and still very much underrated among the Irish because of the way they set out against us.


Well said that man...This is coming from someone that knows their football,I totally agree with you.Israel were terrified of Ireland and did not play to their full potential and if we beat them at home by a fluke goal i will be more than delighted.

[Closed Account 2]

Maybe ......Stuttgart88... answered your query better than I did.

Kelly needs time to adjust to International Football,therefore needs to play in some friendlies before you could even consider playing him, especially now as we have such important games coming up.....

Morrison/Miller have been in the International scene for a while now and know what it's all about,i agree that they are not playing regular at present but both particulary Morrison are very important to our further progression.

As I say Kelly has great potential for the future and when we get over these vital upcoming games then give him a chance to go prove himself which I am sure he will do without a problem.

I agree with you about Clinton, but Miller ?!?! Ive yet to see him do much at all for us, and even if we had a fair few injuries/suspensions I think (well hope) others would be in ahead of him. I think time has run out for Miller, he really has to move on from Man Utd - Fletcher, Phillip Neville and now Keleberson (after Charlton match) all seem to be picked ahead of him. And next season you can add Richardson to that as he has done well on loan at WBA... Miller has been poor all season long - eg he was out fought by Exeter City's midfield in both cup games, he needs regular football or else his career will stagnate to the point of collapse.

[Stuttgart88]

The Independent this morning is saying that Miller may go to Norwich (yes, Norwich!) on a full season loan next year. Oh dear...

[Donal81]

Israel outplayed France for the most of it a couple of months ago. They were the much better team against Switzerland and without a doubt deserved the win. They are an excellent team and still very much underrated among the Irish because of the way they set out against us.

I'll disagree with you there Eirebhoy. I don't think they're excellent but capitalised on our failings and French failings. They have a lot of momentum now but I've seen little that impressed me.

[tetsujin1979]

The Independent this morning is saying that Miller may go to Norwich (yes, Norwich!) on a full season loan next year. Oh dear...

He can keep Doc company in the reserve games!

[eirebhoy]

They have a lot of momentum now but I've seen little that impressed me.

I think its only the way they played against us that is making people feel that way. Did you see them against the Swiss? They cut them open like nothing an Irish team has done in years. Their passing against the French was sublime, with the exception of a spell of French dominance you could have mistaken Israel for any of the top teams. Only one team has won in Russia in the last 8 years, that was Israel. They actually forced Russia's coach to resign because of that result.

Benayoun scored a hatrick in against Deportivo last week and while he's their best player, they certainly don't rely on him. Don't see many Irish midfielders coming up with hattricks in a top league.

Israel actually remind me of AZ. A quality team but don't get the credit because the names on the backs of their shirts. AZ would beat any team in Europe on their day by playing fabulous football. It rarely isn't their day though.

[Stuttgart88]

They actually forced Russia's coach to resign because of that result.

I know, 4 weeks before we played Russia in Dublin. The new coach brought back all their best players. We'd probably have beaten them otherwise. Thanks for nothing Israel

[Donal81]

I think its only the way they played against us that is making people feel that way. Did you see them against the Swiss? They cut them open like nothing an Irish team has done in years. Their passing against the French was sublime, with the exception of a spell of French dominance you could have mistaken Israel for any of the top teams. Only one team has won in Russia in the last 8 years, that was Israel. They actually forced Russia's coach to resign because of that result.

Benayoun scored a hatrick in against Deportivo last week and while he's their best player, they certainly don't rely on him. Don't see many Irish midfielders coming up with hattricks in a top league.

Israel actually remind me of AZ. A quality team but don't get the credit because the names on the backs of their shirts. AZ would beat any team in Europe on their day by playing fabulous football. It rarely isn't their day though.

Fair play to them for the result against the Swiss but there's something a bit off about this group: we can play a whole lot better than we've played so far, with the exception of the French game. We've never really gotten into top gear. The French are very, very weak. The Swiss are a poor side who have been lucky with their last two groups. Israel also find themselves in a group where the main teams just aren't motoring properly. Maybe I'm naiive here but I thought we were much better than Israel although we should have killed off the game. If we had gotten a second goal, they weren't coming back from it. Benayoun, their playmaker, did very little against us. Maybe this just proves your point that they were worried by us, though.

Remember, this is the same team that went 1-0 down to Cyprus at home before getting a winner 15 minutes from time...They were also about five minutes from drawing with Cyprus away before getting a goal. We saw Cyprus at home and, if anything, they're even worse than they were in the 2002 campaign, a reallly awful side.

Put that beside their goals against us and the French. As Jimbob said, if they hadn't got an injury time goal against us and a goal in the last ten minutes against a 10-man French team, they would be dead and buried. Lucky in many ways? Absolutely. Excellent? I disagree, sir.

However, everyone needs luck and the group is as it is. What I'm saying is that I don't think they're the dark horses people make them out to be but jammy b*stards waiting to be found out!

[Donal81]

Also, when we played them, their only defensive tactic was to boot Duff off the ball whenever he came near them. We had free-kick after free-kick that we wasted but it shows how much he unnerved them. They played that at home, see how far that gets them when they're not in their home ground...

[Stuttgart88]

I'm nervous about Cyprus away. I think they were unusually bad in Dublin.

I think Israel are a half decent side who have to be treated with respect. Especially because they're well coached and have one really class player. But I see Ireland as being better than that & we should look to beat teams like Israel. Let's face it, if we drew Israel in a finals we'd be delighted.

I've seen teams defend narrow leads deeply quite a number of times since Tel Aviv and when I compare the success of this strategy against our outcome against Israel I see one common factor: luck! How close did Gudjohnssen come to scoring at Anfield? If Rangers had scored after 80 mins instead of 87 mins would Celtic have won at Ibrox? Should Robbie have scored at Highbury? Let's face it, there were flaws in our performance in Israel, but they got lucky with that guy's career best shot.

It's a thin line between being lauded for a tactically astute performance and losing 2 points.

[Stuttgart88]

see how far that gets them when they're not in their home ground...

Their home pitch was ridiculously narrow too. We'll see how their 3 CB's cope with width in Dublin, even without Duff.

[Donal81]

I'm nervous about Cyprus away. I think they were unusually bad in Dublin.

I think Israel are a half decent side who have to be treated with respect. Especially because they're well coached and have one really class player. But I see Ireland as being better than that & we should look to beat teams like Israel. Let's face it, if we drew Israel in a finals we'd be delighted.

I've seen teams defend narrow leads deeply quite a number of times since Tel Aviv and when I compare the success of this strategy against our outcome against Israel I see one common factor: luck! How close did Gudjohnssen come to scoring at Anfield? If Rangers had scored after 80 mins instead of 87 mins would Celtic have won at Ibrox? Should Robbie have scored at Highbury? Let's face it, there were flaws in our performance in Israel, but they got lucky with that guy's career best shot.

It's a thin line between being lauded for a tactically astute performance and losing 2 points.

I said on this forum after the Israel game that we were a few minutes away from what everyone would have considered a great defensive performance. I don't like defensive football and playing on a 1-0 lead is just foolish but it can be done when luck is there as well.

With three very late goals against Cyprus (twice) and the French, and the last minute goal against us, Israel have eight points that they're riding their luck on. Obviously, if they were rubbish, they wouldn't have been within one goal of ourselves and France. They must be treated with respect but let's not stand off them. I don't think they're particularly creative and have a couple of tough boys at the back that will be caught out in Lansdowne.

Again, I might be really naiive but I think the next 6 months will be the making of this team and Kerr. We can do the Israelis and the Swiss at home, I'm sure of it, and there is nothing about either of these teams that we have to fear. It's ourselves we should worry about.

[Stuttgart88]

Again, I might be really naiive but I think the next 6 months will be the making of this team and Kerr. We can do the Israelis and the Swiss at home, I'm sure of it, and there is nothing about either of these teams that we have to fear. It's ourselves we should worry about.

Absolutely. Tel Aviv was a big "coming of age" opportunity lost, as well as 2 points. If Ireland plays to their best then we'll go through.

[FarBeag]

Quote Donal81...The French are very, very weak.


Sorry but I don't agree.How can the French team go from being the best team in the world to be so dire in the last 18 mths or so??They are being badly managed and have no self belief at the present and look at their individuals players.They will come good.They still top the table and even if they are grinding out results(like ourselves) does not make them weak by any stretch of the imagination.

Israel are no world beaters i know but either were Greece before they wont the big one in Portugal.They are a good team and with the capabilities to beat us in Landsdowne and have the self confidence that they can.Therefore in my view this makes them very very dangerous.I have much more confidence in beating the Swiss at home although this will not be easy either judging by our previous record against them.
I am as optimistic as the next man and i do hope we win the group.If we dont we can not blame anyone other than ourselves no matter how good or bad we think they are.