Ticket prices: association football v gaelic football

[BohDiddley]

'Ludicrous suggestion' ... 'Off your rocker'. You're sounding more than a little shrill there CO.
What I'm saying is unpalatable to many, and isn't going to be given any airtime in Irish media because those who cover sport frequently share the values of the GAA.
Of course Irish football is blighted by globalisation. That's a given. But at least it's something that other leagues have to put up with as well. The fact that some misguided Irish 'soccer fans' choose to support ManU or Juve does not magically imply that the GAA also has not played its part, even in terms of competition, benign or otherwise.
I would have thought it was self-evident. Can you actually not see that? Or is it just that anyone who happens to have the nerve to disagree with you and your conveniently cosy view of sport qualifies as a figure of ridicule or needs psychiatric treatment?

[pete]

I agree that John Delaneys salary cannot be justified. No one can convince me he would get similar salary in the private sector. 150-200k would be more reasonable.

[pineapple stu]

Exactly, because the senior teams in this country are paying wages, rather than the GAA paying nothing.

Senir international team, not senior club teams. No wages involved there. The FAI use the gate receipts from the senior games to finance the youth international teams the same way the GAA do was his point.

[fitzknows]

While we're on about salaries here, the one thing I find strange is why the revenue do not look into the money being paid to GAA officials. It is obvious that the likes of Mick O'Dwyer is being paid a decent sum of money to manage a county team. All the Eircom league clubs are held accountable by the revenue and there are penalties if they do not pay the taxes as can now be seen in the case with Shamrock Rovers. The recent suggestions that GAA County players recieve extra tax credits is a bit annoying when these sort of under the counter payments are going on. I do not want to get into the whole GAA-Soccer debate going on here. I think it is important to preserve our national games and the GAA have done a good jod at doing this even if I dont agree with some of the rules they have employed in the past and present. The FAI and IRFU are hardly faultless either. But going back to the point about revenue payments and payments going to GAA officials, it is clear that successive governments have treated this with a blind eye which suggests a favourable treatment of one organisation over others. I do not think it is healthy for sport when a government allows an sporting organisation that has displayed open hostility towards other sporting organisations to bend the rules in such a blatent mannner while ensuring the other organisations play by the rules as was evident in the threat to withhold FAI funding following the CEO debacle last year.

[BohDiddley]

Globalisation is it?? I think Irish people have been supporting english teams since time immemorial.
I don't know whether its something other leagues have to put up with as well though. I mean, I wouldn't say the english league suffers substantially from english people being attracted to the eircom league or the australian league or the Spanish league for that matter.

Nope, I don't understand what you see as self-evident??
Whats self-evident to me is that the market decides what the market wants, and the market clearly wants manu, celtic, west ham.
The gaah don't FORCE people to go to their games. Not in my part of the world anyway. Nor do they tell people NOT to go to soccer games. Maybe this happens where you come from ??
So, I see kids wandering around in manu and celtis jersies and wall-to-wall sky coverage of the english premiership. This is my view from where I'm sitting. It is neither a convenient nor a cosy view, but, hey, I ain't gonna force it on anybody.
But if you feel that the eircom league is in dire straits because of the influence of the gaah, then, yes, I do think you would need some treatment for your highly delusional state. Or are you just mad 'cause you know I'm right??

Who's said anything about forcing? I think the voices in the head might just be located between your ears and not mine, and they are telling you things that you want to hear. Of course, the really insane are utterly convinced that they are right, and everyone else is a nutter.
And what a simplistic, insular little world you live in. Are you honestly trying to say that the GAA does not take support from football in this country? Is that really what you think? And do you think you can rise to an answer to that without your puerile name-calling?

[Anto McC]

The FAI are making similar profits by taking advantage of professional players paid and coached almost entirely within England. The senior men's team is the only FAI team turning a profit. I have no difficulty paying money to the GAA because they actually run their sports, anyone who plays GAA in this country does it in a GAA run facility with a GAA coach. Most people who play soccer in this country do it in a casual way. Playing a lot on the time in private facilities and rarely do they have an FAI provided coach.

well said compleatly agree,i like the fact that the players are doing it for pride and not money

[pete]

well said compleatly agree,i like the fact that the players are doing it for pride and not money

True but doesn't stop some of their representatives monaing about the time & effort. GAA players like rugby in the amateur days will always get rewarded indirectly by getting better job than would otherwise have so can't always be measured directly.

I know there was talk of a special tax credit for GAA players but i don't think its workable as would surely have to open to other amateur sports people as cannot distinguish between them.

[Maynard]

You cannot escape the fact that GAA 'football', which has grown fat based on outrageous cosseting, for political and cultural reasons, competes with football for fanbase and revenue in a way that no other sport does, and skews the market in Ireland in a way that no other national league has to tolerate.[/QUOTE]

Emm, so you're actually blaming the plight of EL soccer on the fact that the GAA...exists Well I'm afraid that that simply doesn't add up. The GAA has consistently drawn larger and larger crowds post-Civil War as their facilities and quality of spectacle have steadily improved. This was still the case when League of Ireland games were drawing 40,000 plus during the 1960's. So the huge drop-off in Irish soccer numbers cannot simply be blamed on the GAA "skewing the market". On your logic (and I use that term with considerable reservation) we should perhaps disband our national games and the most successful sporting organisation in the history of our nation because it's not fair on the poor FAI and EL who try their best but have the odds so unfairly stacked against them? Wake up. Irish soccer have far worse enemies than the GAA, namely themselves.

[Fatboy]

Imagine obesity levels among the youth. A nation addicted to playstation, etc., etc.,[/QUOTE]

I know thats scary even though the obesity levels include me, its scary to think in like ten years time the whole country could be obese!

[BohDiddley]

You cannot escape the fact that GAA 'football', which has grown fat based on outrageous cosseting, for political and cultural reasons, competes with football for fanbase and revenue in a way that no other sport does, and skews the market in Ireland in a way that no other national league has to tolerate.
Emm, so you're actually blaming the plight of EL soccer on the fact that the GAA...exists Well I'm afraid that that simply doesn't add up. The GAA has consistently drawn larger and larger crowds post-Civil War as their facilities and quality of spectacle have steadily improved. This was still the case when League of Ireland games were drawing 40,000 plus during the 1960's. So the huge drop-off in Irish soccer numbers cannot simply be blamed on the GAA "skewing the market". On your logic (and I use that term with considerable reservation) we should perhaps disband our national games and the most successful sporting organisation in the history of our nation because it's not fair on the poor FAI and EL who try their best but have the odds so unfairly stacked against them? Wake up. Irish soccer have far worse enemies than the GAA, namely themselves.

What twaddle.
Once again, words are being put into my mouth to suit a pre-judged conclusion based on an imaginary 'logic'. I never said or implied, nor do I believe (yawn), that the GAA should be disbanded, and I don't really see why I should have to deny it. Of course that suggestion, which you artificallly have introduced into the discussion, is nonsense.
What I am saying is that Irish football suffers from, among other things, the economic and cultural hegemony that the GAA currently enjoys. Everything, from the parish to Croker, from school to county, from the sports pages to RTE, starts and finishes with that ugliest of games, because it has wormed its way into a formidable if not unassailable position in the national self-identity. Sorry if I don't sign up to this consensus. For example, I have a kid who happens to be not bad at football. He's allowed to play it at school, which wasn't the case in my day. He's allowed play rugby too, but it holds no appeal for him just now, so he's passed on that. He also plays GAA. He doesn't mind, nor do I, but the difference is that, even if he/I did, it wouldn't matter. He'd be forced to do it. He'd still have to do all that hoofin' and leppin' about, and putting on manly Gaelic airs for the organizing teachers.
Football is a better game than GAA (football). It is more skilful, more intelligent, more natural, and more enjoyable to watch. It is not the world game without good reason.
Children in Ireland, given the choice, for example in parks and green spaces, will almost invariably play football. I cannot remember the last time, if ever, I saw Irish children, or Irish people, playing Gaelic spontaneously. Gaelic is not the only monkey on domestic football's back, but it's one of them, and one that doesn't impact in other countries. What else do you think makes Irish football so uniquely under-valued?
Given fair competition, free of this pro-GAA loading of the dice - and that is all I am arguing for - Irish football could, some day, not today or tomorrow, get back to its rightful position.

[oú est j.cotter]

BohDiddley, you just hit the nail on the head. Ireland is unique in a European context having 3/4 (depending where you are) sports all competing against each other at high level.
If you look at the nearest countries to us, England, Scotland and Wales, you've only really got soccer and rugby. OK, some areas might be big into cricket etc... but the overlap that exists in Ireland is generally absent.

A similar situation exists throughout much of continental Europe. If we leave France (rugby) aside, what's the next most popular sport, basketball?
Even in countries where this is huge, eg. Lithuania, it still means there is only 2 major sports nationally.

The GAA is a highly successful sporting organisation which goes to the heart of the majority of Irish communities. Get over it. There's nothing you can do about it. What you should do is look at the relative success of Irish soccer compared to a similarly sized country (Scotland for example) where this competition for players doesn't exist.

It's clear that Irish soccer has, and is doing well. It's also clear that people like the game. As you've stated lots of people play it on their local green. Jersey sales for non el teams must also be significant.
However
the lack of crowds etc... is the el and the clubs problem. no-one else is to blame. It's up to them to get the people along to see the matches. It's not like there's much else to do at 1945 on a Friday evening.

Finally ( if anyone is still reading!) I'd like to mention the basketball in Cork during the 1980s. It was exciting, entertaining and fresh. And the crowds went. OK it didn't sustain itself, but considering the larger market that's out there for soccer there's no reason why if they got their act together the el clubs couldn't be more successful. People have just got to stop looking for excuses. If half of the time spent complaining about the GAA was instead spent productively maybe the Irish soccer fraternity wouldn't be so far behind them in terms of facilities and crowds.

[stojkovic]

I agree with your point - we have too much choice of sports in Ireland.

But note that cycling is massive in France, Holland, Belgium and Italy.

Ice Hockey is massive in Russia, Finland and other north eastern countries.

The Scandinavians have their winter sports.

But generally each country has two BIG sports and alot of minority ones, we have FOUR BIGGIES.

[BohDiddley]

BohDiddley, you just hit the nail on the head. Ireland is unique in a European context having 3/4 (depending where you are) sports all competing against each other at high level.
If you look at the nearest countries to us, England, Scotland and Wales, you've only really got soccer and rugby. OK, some areas might be big into cricket etc... but the overlap that exists in Ireland is generally absent.

A similar situation exists throughout much of continental Europe. If we leave France (rugby) aside, what's the next most popular sport, basketball?
Even in countries where this is huge, eg. Lithuania, it still means there is only 2 major sports nationally.

The GAA is a highly successful sporting organisation which goes to the heart of the majority of Irish communities. Get over it. There's nothing you can do about it. What you should do is look at the relative success of Irish soccer compared to a similarly sized country (Scotland for example) where this competition for players doesn't exist.

It's clear that Irish soccer has, and is doing well. It's also clear that people like the game. As you've stated lots of people play it on their local green. Jersey sales for non el teams must also be significant.
However
the lack of crowds etc... is the el and the clubs problem. no-one else is to blame. It's up to them to get the people along to see the matches. It's not like there's much else to do at 1945 on a Friday evening.

Finally ( if anyone is still reading!) I'd like to mention the basketball in Cork during the 1980s. It was exciting, entertaining and fresh. And the crowds went. OK it didn't sustain itself, but considering the larger market that's out there for soccer there's no reason why if they got their act together the el clubs couldn't be more successful. People have just got to stop looking for excuses. If half of the time spent complaining about the GAA was instead spent productively maybe the Irish soccer fraternity wouldn't be so far behind them in terms of facilities and crowds.

Yes, I think administrators and clubs should get their act together, not least at Bohs! But this is a false opposition: we still can't get away from the debilitating effect the 'most Irish', most-favoured sport has on football.
Anyway, you're right. Probably no one else is reading this right now, and I'm happy to let this thread fade to light green!

[Maynard]

What I am saying is that Irish football suffers from, among other things, the economic and cultural hegemony that the GAA currently enjoys. Everything, from the parish to Croker, from school to county, from the sports pages to RTE, starts and finishes with that ugliest of games, because it has wormed its way into a formidable if not unassailable position in the national self-identity. .
Football is a better game than GAA (football). It is more skilful, more intelligent, more natural, and more enjoyable to watch. .

You're some tulip. Yeah the GAA has WORMED its way into its current position.Wow, that really shows how very, very little you know about the history of the oganisation. I think you'll find very few sporting bodies have wormed themselves into such positions of dominance. I doubt you believe that the FA wormed its way to power in England... You're other comments on it being an ugly and less intelligent game than association football, smacks of, at best elitism and at worst, facism. I mean I don't think rugby, or golf, or horse racing are enjoyable sports to watch, but I would NEVERbe so self-indulgent and patronising as to call them "less intelligent" sports. It's just downright ignorant and disrespectful.

I'm going to leave it at this, each to their own and all that, but I just couldn't help replying to those Dickensian comments that would be better suited to an 1850's copy of Punch or Harpers Weekly.

[BohDiddley]

You're some tulip. Yeah the GAA has WORMED its way into its current position.Wow, that really shows how very, very little you know about the history of the oganisation. I think you'll find very few sporting bodies have wormed themselves into such positions of dominance. I doubt you believe that the FA wormed its way to power in England... You're other comments on it being an ugly and less intelligent game than association football, smacks of, at best elitism and at worst, facism. I mean I don't think rugby, or golf, or horse racing are enjoyable sports to watch, but I would NEVERbe so self-indulgent and patronising as to call them "less intelligent" sports. It's just downright ignorant and disrespectful.

I'm going to leave it at this, each to their own and all that, but I just couldn't help replying to those Dickensian comments that would be better suited to an 1850's copy of Punch or Harpers Weekly.

Some games are better than others.
Some people can discuss a topic in a public forum without resorting to pathetic name-calling, so you needn't think you're getting away with your 'each to his own' as if you're some sort of noble Gaelic warrior.
Football, to use the cliche, is the beautiful game (as played by Bohs at Drogs last night ). Not always, but often. And GAA is an ugly game.
Why, if it's such cracking good sport, do we not have international tournaments organized by EUGAA and FIGAA?
What, for heaven's sake, is 'fascist' or 'Dickensian' about expressing a preference for one sport over another? You should listen to yourself: take a quiet moment to consider your bloated rhetoric, and ask yourself who is acting here in the role of the thought police.
If you think, like many Irish people do, that all that charging and barging around is a good and worthwhile pursuit, good luck to you. I happen to think that it's sheer, over-hyped, atavistic rubbish, and that if natural selection had had it's way, it's be a quaint relic of Irish insularism.
You don't need to remind me that that's ever going to be a popular view -- that's a large part of my argument -- but please try to keep a bit of proportionality in your arguments.
Fascist! Dickensian! Will ya give us a break!

[hamish]

True, insane I may be. But no, I honestly do not believe that gaah takes support from football in this country. I think english soccer takes support from football in this country.

(p.s. gaah matches are generally on a Sunday. Football matches, in general, are not on Sundays).

Always did. Same situation, I believe in other countries where a neighbouring BIG League wins out over next door league. if you follow me. Only example that comes to mind at the moment is Cyprus and Greece. Maybe others have better examples.
The Eircom League has no choice but to continue the work it's doing(?) and carve out/expand its market/support.

[Maynard]

Expressing a preferance for a sport need not bring into question the "intelligence" of the sport, and by association those who play it. I find your disrespectful approach to the GAA ill-informed and insulting, and I don't think you have a coherent arguement at all...but I will leave it at that, as your bitterness will obviously not be abated by facts, figures or any legitimate reasoning. Seo e deireadh an sceal o mo thaobh de, rachfaidh me arais chig mo pholl sa tallamh, ait a bhfuil me in ann peil Gaelach agus sacair a leanuint gan deacracht ar bith. Go neiri leat.

[BohDiddley]

Expressing a preferance for a sport need not bring into question the "intelligence" of the sport, and by association those who play it. I find your disrespectful approach to the GAA ill-informed and insulting, and I don't think you have a coherent arguement at all...but I will leave it at that, as your bitterness will obviously not be abated by facts, figures or any legitimate reasoning. Seo e deireadh an sceal o mo thaobh de, rachfaidh me arais chig mo pholl sa tallamh, ait a bhfuil me in ann peil Gaelach agus sacair a leanuint gan deacracht ar bith. Go neiri leat.

That's some thin skin you have there. I think you like collecting insults, and you get better results if you do that 'by association'. If you want to make leaps of logic, have the guts to make them in your own name.
I haven't seen the impregnable phalanx of facts and figures, but least of all the legitimate reasoning, you allege to have marshalled for your sport of choice, so forgive me if I'm not persuaded by them.
Have a nice trip back to your cosy fantasy.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The level of players wages isn't an indication of the standard of the fare. Since you got two games from the GAA for the same price as one from the FAI you can't complain too much.

Yes he can Soccer games last 90 minutes, big GAA matches last 70 minutes max.. he was ripped off!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ok slightly off the topic but my studies in history revealed the following:

After the founding of the Gaelic Athletic Association in 1884 with the consummate infestation of Gaelic football into the land, the Royal Irish Constabulary noted that faction fighting, a perennial problem in rural Ireland for centuries began to die out as a form of activity. The GAA effectively wiped out this part of our "culture" by spreading Gaelic football instead.

While I welcome the death of the faction fight . Not too crazy about the alternative. As the bumper sticker I saw on the back of A KK reg once said
" Gaelic Football = A GAME FOR BAD HURLERS! "